#78: Home Studio Acoustics & Fixing Muddy Mixes | (PRODUCER KICKSTART: Erlea)

Welcome to the latest podcast episode where I sit down with special guest, Jonathan 'Erlea' Guzman, for a Producer Kickstart strategy session. In this episode, we're going to tackle some of the most common challenges faced by producers in their day-to-day work.

We start by delving into the dreaded "mud" that producers often struggle to identify in their tracks. I share some valuable tips and techniques for dealing with this producer's pain point.

Then we move onto the crucial topic of room acoustics, as we explore how to optimize your studio space to get the best possible sound.

Next up, we dive into low-frequency mixing and examine the importance of low and high cut frequencies. Jonathan shares some useful insights on how to make sure your mix sounds balanced and cohesive.

We also take a closer look at when to use mid/side EQ, and how this technique can help you create a more dynamic and interesting mix.

Finally, we wrap things up with a discussion on compression, covering the basics and sharing some tips on how to set a compressor for optimal results.

If you're a producer looking to level up your skills and overcome some of the most common challenges in the production process, then this episode is not to be missed!

CLICK HERE, to book a Producer Kickstart Strategy Session: https://tidycal.com/inside-the-mix-podcast/producer-kickstart

CLICKER HERE, to follow ELREA: https://linktr.ee/erlea

Chapters

• 0:00 Jonathan 'ERLEA' Guzman (PRODUCER KICKSTART)
• 7:50 Producer pain point: Reduce mud in EQ
• 9:41 How do you acoustically treat a small home studio?
• 15:39 Why do my mixes sound muddy?
• 18:05 High cut and low cut frequencies
• 21:49 Should you use mid side EQ?
• 27:42 Compression basics for beginners

Transcript

Marc Matthews: 0:23

Hey, inside the mixed podcast fans, it's Roddy, the founder of Music Project, empty Mailbox. Follow me or find out more on Spotify and Apple Music Track intention by empty mailbox. You are listening to the Inside the Mixed Podcast. Here is your host, mark yours. Hello and welcome to the Inside the Mix podcast. I'm Mark Matthews, your host, musician, producer, and mix and mastering. You've come to the right place. If you want to know more about your favorite synth music artists, music, engineering and production, songwriting and the music industry, I've been writing, producing, mixing, and mastering music for over 15 years, and I wanna share what I've learnt with you. Hey folks, and welcome back to The Inside The Mix podcast if you are a new Inside the Mix podcast. Welcome, and don't forget to hit that subscribe button, and if you are a returning listener, welcome back. Now in this episode. I'm very excited to welcome my guest today, my friend here, Jonathan Guzman, a k a, and I pronounce this correctly, Aaliyah. I should have asked this off air. Is it earlier or Aleah? How, how are we pronouncing that? I would probably say

Erlea: 1:32

Ale Aleah. That sounds about right. I, I think there's multiple ways, but honestly, it doesn't matter to me, man.

Marc Matthews: 1:39

Ale. Ale. Uh, yeah, it's coming out with my British accent now. It doesn't Sound, sounds great, dude.

Erlea: 1:43

It's like, it sounds like Depeche mode Did Peche mode. I mean, shit. It should be gold with that accent now. Yeah. Yeah.

Marc Matthews: 1:49

It has its perks, but sometimes when it comes to pronouncing, pronouncing slightly. Different names. It's uh, it falls short a bit. So we've got a producer. A producer you mentioned to pmo. So you're a Depa mode fan, which is amazing. Oh, huge fan of age music and metal as well. Um, oh yeah. Which always, always, I chat to so many people on the podcast and on Instagram in particular, and dms and metal always comes into the conversation cuz I, yeah. I somehow get it in there. So me being a big metalhead, it comes out. I was listening to, I've been on a Rick Rubin binge and I was listening to the Slayer albums that you produced earlier. Oh yeah, yeah, totally, totally digging into that. Um, so you are here today, I'm digressing for a producer kickstart strategy session. So this is the third now, third one of these. Um, and they're proven really, really popular. So how, how are you today and um, where are you joining us from? Oh, I'm

Erlea: 2:39

good man. Thanks for asking. I'm from, uh, LA and. Yeah. Los Angeles, California, dude. Born and raised. So just nice smoke out here. Nice. Just like every other struggling musician. Right

Marc Matthews: 2:51

from LA Did you move to, oh no. You said you were born and raised, right? So you didn't move to Born and raised. Yeah. Yeah. Um, now I'm gonna do the Clash of Bricks thing here. What's the weather like that now here, the weather is, F is, is awful. Uh, is is pissing down with rain and it's windy. What's it like where you are? It might be a bit later in the day, or was it earlier? It might be earlier. Uh, it's

Erlea: 3:08

11. Yeah. It's, you know, it's, it's pretty early in the day. Um, I think today it's kind of cloudy a bit, but the weather has been kind of good. I mean, I, you know, I'm, I've been here all my life, so I don't, I don't know if you've ever heard, but like, once it goes down 74 degrees, you know, people in LA are freezing, right. Because it's always so sunny and warm. Yeah. So today it's a bit cold, man. I think it's like, I think it's like 69 or 68 degrees. I don't know. But the weather's great. It's not raining, so I'm, I'm happy about that. I hate

Marc Matthews: 3:38

that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're talking Fahrenheit, aren't you? Now? We do it at Celsius right there, and I'm trying to do it first in my head. Yeah, that's right. And I, I think, I think that does sound relatively warm, to be fair. Um, yeah, I don't, yeah, we, we make it awkward. Excellent stuff. So can you just tell our audience a little bit about you and sort of your musical journey to date, then, um, sort of maybe a bit about what music you are producing and, um, when you started. Okay.

Erlea: 4:02

Uh, about me, well, big eighties fan right now. I've been raised on eighties music since. I could even remember hearing it. Depeche Mode, new Order, the Cure, all that stuff has always been played throughout the household. Um, I kind of dabbled in like heavy metal when I was in high school. You know, buddies that I met, you know, I always played guitar, you know, when I first got a guitar I was playing personal Jesus and then like people around. But then also I actually got into Metallica actually. Um, my sister. Uh, let me hear some, uh, Metallica, I think she, let me hear, I think it was a one was the first song and I was just like, oh man, this is amazing. And, you know, that just kind of took me down that rabbit hole of metal. Met some guys at, in high school, they threw some Pantera at me, the heavier stuff. And I was like, oh man. Like I've just been missing out on this. So, um, that's like been the musical journey in regards to like, influence. Um, so the stuff that I'm making. I guess it's categorized as synth wave. Um, I honestly never even, I didn't even hear, I, I didn't know synth wave existed, you know, until like I started making it, I was like, what? Like, I, I guess, you know, everyone always would tell me, Hey, your music sounds like Depeche mode, it's this and that. It's sounds very synth wave. And I'm like, what the hell is synth wave? You know? And a buddy of mine got into it and, um, so yeah, I just like, I guess that's what it would be categorized, um, nowaday. Synth wave. Uh, geez. So I guess that's, that's kind of what I've been doing. Um, I don't purposely like sit down and think like, Hey, let me make a synth wave song. It'll just kind of come out like that. It always, everyone just tells me, oh, it sounds like Depeche mode. It sounds like this. And it's not a bad compliment. I mean, to me that's, that's cool I guess. But, um, but yeah, it's kind of been my journey right now, man. Just kind of making music. I've always been in and out of bands, um, you know, ever since I was 14. Um, it's just music has always been a part of my life and writing and stuff like that. And now with like the tools that like Apple and just like technology kind of offers to be like this bedroom producer. It's just, it's great. It's like everyone can make music in their bedroom, right? And I mean, of course maybe not all of it can be like top quality, you. You know, like studio quality songs, but it's a lot better than it was, what, 10 years ago for just like a normal person like myself. So yeah, I just got, what was it? Logic, maybe about three years ago, kinda life kind of threw a wrench at me. So I wasn't able to really physically do anything with my hands for a moment. So I had to just, Sit and just read and learn what compressors were, EQ and stuff like that. And then when I kind of got, you know, I'm not gonna digress into what happened, but when I kind of got like my mobility back and stuff like that, it was like, all right, let's go. Let's do it. Yeah. So, so that's kind of where I'm at, man. I'm just read a lot. And now I'm just in that place where it's like, Just struggling to get out of the mud. Yeah. That, that is what I tell everyone. Just like, how do you get rid of the mud? I hate it there. Mm-hmm. Like, it's just, it's fu it's terrible.

Marc Matthews: 7:11

Yeah. Yeah. I've got that in my notes here cuz uh, thankfully you, you, you filled it out in the, uh, the. The pre sort of pre-production side of things. Um, love Panera. Uh, I've got say JustOne, you mentioned it. They're massive, massive fan. Um, oh yeah. And yeah. Depeche mode. So you say synth wave. I've, I, I'll listened to the song that you sent across, um, as part of listening to it today. Um Okay. As part of it. And it's, it's, it's definitely like synth pop. Isn't it? I would say it's like a darker side of synth pop. Um, and I can definitely hear that eighties influence. So this is a producer kickstart session you mentioned there about mud. So you're talking about like low, mid, uh, low frequencies. So what, what is your biggest pain point as a producer right now? What is, what is the thing that, for one of a better way of putting it keeps you up at night?

Erlea: 7:57

I think just being able to hear. What sounds good. I know it's kind of very vague, but like, and it just has to do with the low end, I think, like, you know, I feel like I know all the skills, right? They say, oh, look in the 200 hertz and 400 hertz, stuff like that. Mm-hmm. And like, it, it's just, I, I read and see so many videos everywhere. It's just, oh, this is where it's at. But it's like, I don't know exactly what it sounds like. Like anybody could tell me, Hey, it's there. That doesn't mean anything to me. Like give me an example of what it sounds like. And it could be so many different things, right? Based on what synth or kick, whatever it is. And it's like my, I think the, the most difficulty I have is one, identifying it and two is just hearing it off of my studio monitors and just, I guess like monitor. For that matter, just any monitors. Cuz I feel like anything coming directly from your da w just sounds great. And then you go take it in the car and the car smacks you back into reality and says, no, man. Go back in the room and start working again. You know, it's, you know, I, I got to the point where it's like, all right, I'm just gonna go sit in my car. It's nice outside. Let me just mix in my car. And I've done that numerous times and I did it multiple times for the track that you've heard. And you know, I, I think. I'll never be satisfied. Right. You'll never reach perfection. And when I hear, I just cringe sometimes the track that you heard, cuz I could hear that. Like it just doesn't, I don't have that top-notch quality and I don't know if I'll ever get there. I know stuff like that is acquired throughout the years, but it's. It's that mud, man. I can't hear it.

Marc Matthews: 9:33

Yeah, it's, so, my, my initial thoughts were there. You mentioned studio monitors. So are, are you in the room? You're in there for the audience, uh, listening. We, you can watch this on YouTube, but are you mixing in the room that you're in at the moment? Oh yeah. And it's a

Erlea: 9:47

very untreated

Marc Matthews: 9:48

room. So that, that was gonna be my, my first thing. So you can imagine, like, if you're mixing in an untreated room, it's like, um, it's like having a, like if you were to have a, set some glasses and you put a color filter over them, and it's gonna be, or if you are painting and then you have a color filter and then you paint and then you remove that filter, it's not gonna, it's not gonna be, It's, what's the word? It's not gonna represent. That's what I was looking for. It's not gonna represent what you've got there. So the first thing you, you, it's, it's really hard to do because finding a treated room, like if you're doing it in your, in your spare room as well, it's quite hard to do. And you're kind of like, you've gotta make the best of a less than adequate situation. So have you done anything with regards to like speaker placement and where they're positioned in.

Erlea: 10:31

Uh, you know, I don't have much room to work with. I just, you know, they're right in front of me at an angle. Mm-hmm. Trying to create that whole little triangle effect, triangle, you

Marc Matthews: 10:39

know? Yeah. Yep. How far have you, how far, because I, I appreciate you've probably got them on the desk Yeah. Right in front of me. Yeah. Um, and are they, how f how far is the back from the wall?

Erlea: 10:49

Oh, yeah, that's another thing. They're about what, about like five inches

Marc Matthews: 10:56

from the. Five inches. So yeah, this is where I wish I could see it, but So you've got them the, how far, if they're five inches from the wall behind, how far are they From the wall to the left and right.

Erlea: 11:08

Uh, from the right it's about maybe a foot and from the left. Yeah. It's about maybe a good,

Marc Matthews: 11:14

maybe three feet. Yeah. So my first thought, thought here is this is, I didn't, I didn't think of going down this issue, uh, this route when we were, when I was thinking of South Air. If you cannot get your monitors to be equidistant from the rear, from the rear wall and the side pushed them closer to the rear wall, if that makes sense. So that's one thing you could do. Right. Okay. And try, uh, try that. Uh, with regards to the actual triangle that you have, uhhuh, did you measure the distance between yourself and the monitors? So the, the distance between the left and right monitor is an echo distant from you to that monitor to the left and right. Does that make. Is it an equal equilateral triangle? That's probably a bad way of putting it. Oh, right, right. Yeah. Of

Erlea: 11:56

course not. I did little treatment at all, man. I, I just eyeballed it. Worked with the best amount of space that I have, and I just Yeah. Slapped them there.

Marc Matthews: 12:06

So that, that's a, that's another thing you could do. Um, okay. There's also a, um, we'll get into the, the mix side things in a minute. There's another thing you can do as well, which is really cool to find the best listening position in your. You're quite lucky cuz I've got, I've been, I've been totally digging into acoustic treatments of late, so this is, is this, you've caught me at right time. Okay, cool. Is to get one of your speakers Uhhuh, put it in the corner of the room. Okay. And play a track. I can send you a couple tracks that are really good to do this. Okay. And then you basically just move around the room until you get that perfect representation of low end that, where you get a really nice balance and that is your listening position in. Wow. So you have one speaker, just one speaker in the corner on the. And then just move around until you get, until you, until it all comes down to what you perceive to be the best Now in terms of like the, the frequency representation, and then that's your listening position. And then from there you can create your triangle. Now obviously you're gonna be limited to where you can move, I imagine. In, in the room. Yeah. But those are just, those are, I mean, when you listen back to the episode, those are like three tips. And I can actually, I'll send you a link to this really. Great YouTube channel and this guy and, and, um, cuz I followed this when I was treating, uh, my room a while back. And, um, it's really, really good. So that's, yeah, that's regards to the treatment that just, I mean, It's, it, it will go some way to negating those frequencies that you're referring to because as you say, if you've got resonant frequencies of base building up in the corner, um, and then you've got those resonant frequencies when you are mixing or you've got dips. Yeah. Because what's then gonna happen is when you're mixing with the, with the monitors, you are boosting those frequencies cuz they're out present. But then when you go out to the car that you've over emphasized them and that's where you're hearing that that mud, now mud in itself, right. Is. It's kind of like, um, what's the best way to describe it? I could like an au an audible noise would be like, something like that. Yeah. It's like an overbearing low Yeah. Sort of sound and it just like a big mono sound. It's really hard to describe. Right. Um, right, right. Another reason why that could be as well is how you're treating the top end. Cuz if you, if you haven't got much going on in the top end Right. Then obviously the, the, you've got the Fletcher Munson curve, which is how you. I, I'm fairly certain that's what it's called. I might be corrected on that. Right. But basically there's a curve that the human ear and what you're most, um, what the ear picks up most. Cause there's certain frequencies it does. And if you haven't got any of that high end representation, then you're gonna hear more of the lows. So once again, that could then come down to the room. But are you mixing, are you referencing on headphones as well?

Erlea: 14:45

I do. But, um, you know, I, I, as of late, I, I just haven't, and I think one of the reasons is ear fatigue. I just, mm-hmm. You know, sometimes I put in a lot of hours and I just get caught up in the mix or just get caught up in writing and I just lose track and by the next day my ears like, ah, you know, so I try to. Avoid, um, headphones these days and yeah, I think I read more like, you know, it's best to, you know, mix dirt with monitors rather than headphones. I think when I get down to like, really, when I do a lot of automation or just like really, really wanna. Get very detailed stuff, but I'll slap 'em on. But yeah, I don't, I don't mix with headphones too often

Marc Matthews: 15:22

anymore. No, no, that's fine. It's, it's one of those ones, they're good for referencing low end headphones, obviously. Once again, it all comes down to the headphones are gonna have their own color as well, so Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. You're at the mercy of that. Um, so you've got that, and then you've got, with regards to the, the mix itself with the low frequ. Yeah. So listening to your music Uhhuh, there's, there's not a huge, you don't have loads of stuff going on. Uh, correct me if I'm wrong. Okay. Um, which, which is a good thing cuz the more you have going on, the more frequencies you've got to juggle. Yeah. And the, the as as humans ourselves, when it comes to music, we can only really like pick out three things at a time and anything beyond. It's probably just gets lost in the shuffle. So when it comes to mixing low end, do you, when you are bringing in your, you're gonna start with your kick drum, then you're bringing your snares and then you bring in whatever else you make, your Toms high hearts, et cetera, and you bring all that in, how are you treating those frequencies? So if you've got your kec drum and you find out, I dunno, the fundamental frequ. Is, or you can see on a, on an EQ graph, you can see that it's peaking around, um, 70, 80 hertz and let's say that's your, your fundamental frequency for that kick. When you then bring in the snare, are you using, are you eliminating those frequencies from the snare? So are you using like a, a high cut filter? Yeah. High cuts. Yeah. Low cut filter high,

Erlea: 16:48

high pass filter. Yeah. Can run. I know, I get, of course everyone gets confused with that, right. People call it the low cut filter, but it's really the.

Marc Matthews: 16:56

Yeah, exactly. It's high pass. That's right. You, you've got the, you've got the low cut is a high pass and the low pass is a high cut. Nah, it's like stage left, stage right when you're performing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even to this day, I'd always be like, stage left and I'd just be looking at the sound guy. Oh, you what you mean? Me? You know? Um, yeah, yeah. I'm, I'm throwing that you're doing that, you're, you're, you're rolling off those frequencies. Um, yeah. Getting rid of those and then

Erlea: 17:21

sometimes I'll kind of. You know, I'll do a side chain on the, uh, the snare with like maybe the base frequency or something like, just depends on what I want to have cut through more. Mm-hmm. Because if I mm-hmm. Kind of give that snare that, what, like that 200 hertz kind of. Slight boost right there to give it that meat, you know? And then I have like a, a base that's kind of, you know, occupying that same area. It just depends on what I want to have, you know, shine through. Yeah. But, um, yeah, I utilize the whole you're doing the right thing

Marc Matthews: 17:49

then. Yeah. You, you're doing the right things. Then in that case, that's, that's what you should be doing. And then same with the high heart, you wanna. Use the high pass filter to, to get rid of any of that low, low end rumble Rumble. That's just not needed and that's gonna clean up the low end. So you're doing that, you're doing all that right. Um,

Erlea: 18:06

let me ask you, when you talk about like cutting off like the low end for like a high hat or something like that, how far do people actually go? Cause I've seen ridiculous amounts or like they're cutting it all the way like up. I don't know, 800 K and everything up below that is like gone. You know? But I always feel like when it's, when you do that, it's like it's, it makes it even sharper. Like I feel like I have very sensitive hearing. Mm-hmm. So like when it comes to those high frequencies, if it doesn't have a little bit of that low end, like I can tell. Yeah. And it's like, how much do people actually really do? Cause I've seen so many misleading videos. It's like, oh, cut everything here. And it's like,

Marc Matthews: 18:39

That's a, that's a very good point. It's a very good question as well, because with those videos, they'll just, they'll just show you, they'll say, um, it's like a, a cookie cutter way of EQing and they'll say, this is how you should EQ a high heart. This is how you should eq uh, a vocal. And you're like, well, one that's not in context. You're just doing that in solo. So you how that's gonna sound in the rest of the mix. Uh, and two, that's not gonna work for. Yeah. Um, because Tom bras are different, someone's voice is different to someone else's. You might have a different high hat. Um, so the, what I, what I would recommend doing is, you might do this already, is to do it. Make sure you do it in context. So have your high pass filter, and then have the mix playing, and then just gradually bring it up. Bring it up, bring it, bring it up, bring it up, right until it starts to affect the sound of the high hat to the point whereby, like you mentioned there, it either sounds sharp or it loses. Yeah. Loses its tomal quality. That's the way. And then once you get there, then just back it off again to the left slightly. Does that make sense? No, no, it does

Erlea: 19:39

make sense. It makes a lot of sense. But it's just, you know, you see all these things on there and it's like, really do, so do you really cut it that much? I know there's no like answer, you know, for everything. It's all you gotta do. I hate to say it and it drives me nuts, but you gotta use your ears. Yeah. Yeah.

Marc Matthews: 19:54

That's what, that's what you'll get mo. More often than not, somebody will say that to you. Yeah.

Erlea: 19:57

And it used to drive me nuts, man. I used to look online for like these answers, you know, like where I just need the answer and everyone just use your ears, use your ears. And it's, and I hate it, but it is the truth. You know, you, you get all the knowledge, you obtain the knowledge, you, you digest it, you know, all like the, the techniques and stuff. But at the end of the day, it's like just use your ears to see where it's gonna work and Yeah. It's the reality. Yeah. But I just had to ask somebody like you, man, cuz I know you got. You got, um, you know, a lot of skills. So it's like, I just wanna know you're in, like, what, do you really cut it that far or what? So,

Marc Matthews: 20:29

but no, no, like I said, good answer. It's a good, it's a good question to ask as well, because sometimes you might want those lower frequencies to be present. I mean, there, there might be something musical about them or you might do some form of processing and you're like, actually, that, that sounds quite good. There's no rule that says you have to. It's the same with I was chatting to someone the other day. Base, and I know in once again in the notes and the foot lead up to this, you mentioned about mid side eq. Yeah. And um, it, yeah, it was with regards to like base frequencies. So let's say you have a synth based and inherently with a synthase you're gonna have probably reverb and other bits and pieces from chorus and going on. And that immediately that's gonna go and sort of go out to the left and right, which isn't a bad thing, but what you could look at doing is maybe using sort of like mid side e. Highlighting or wherever soloing those side frequencies. And then not necessarily use a high pass filter, but maybe like a, a low shelf and just duck them by like four or five db but do it in context and then bring them down until you can't hear them. Then just bring them up a touch, if that makes sense. And that No, it does make sense. And now we'll get rid of some of those side, cuz that could be another reason why they might, it might sound. There's not much CL you want. If you want more clarity in the low end, that could be one of the reasons why you might not be getting it. It's. That's, that's

Erlea: 21:49

a good, I'm glad you brought that up cuz I actually, I wanted to ask you that as well. When would be the appropriate time to utilize mid and side eq? Is this something that's done on individual tracks or, again, it's just kind of using your ears cuz I've seen, you know, people say, Hey, leave it for the, the mastering stage. But it's like, well I don't know. You know, maybe, maybe I should try to cut. Some from the kick, you know, and then I go and cut it and then it's like, ah, man, it's too thin. You know? It's just, it's wild. I don't really see too many videos of people actually utilizing mid inside EQ on individual tracks during the mix. I always see it towards the end when it's like something I've been wanting to kind of dabble with, dabble in, but I'm kind of scared. It's, it's,

Marc Matthews: 22:28

yeah, it's a good question again, because admittedly I don't use it a massive amount. I might, the only time I really use it is like what I mentioned. I might possibly use it and in mastering sometimes. Yeah. Cool. Like me in mastering sometimes I might use it, but I don't use it a massive amount. And, um, It's a nice tool to have. I think if you wanna save you, I dunno if you have like a synth, synths are great for this because I remember when I was chatting to Adrian Hall about this and because synths are like, man-made, they, there is no rule to what a synth should, should, should sound like. Yeah. Which then, which then means you can go and and do what you want to. It really, um, it's up to you. Obviously you want stood out to me. Yeah. You want it to sound relatively musical. That's where mid side EQ could come in quite handy cuz you could have something that's this huge stereo spread and then you could go and trial mid side EQ and you could try like boosting, cutting the sides if you wanna add a bit more sort of spatial awareness to the side of your mix. That's a good way of doing it. But if, I mean, my, my initial advice would be like, if you've, if you, if you can't figure, if you can't think of a reason to use it, then I just probably, probably wouldn't. Okay. If that makes.

Erlea: 23:39

No, it makes sense. It's gotta have a purpose. Yeah.

Marc Matthews: 23:42

Yeah. And I, I think it can be quite easy to like, think I've got, I dunno, um, pro Q3 or Infinity eq, which has mid site and you think you have to use it. I don't have Logic's. Got it. Has Logic got a mid side function in a

Erlea: 23:54

cq? Yeah, they do. It's s not as intuitive and like friendly as like, what is it? Fab filter. I did a trial of the, uh, the fab filter, uh, pro Q3 I think it was, and oh man, it was great. I loved it. It is good. I'll probably get it eventually, but maybe, maybe create another email and just, you know, kind of piggyback off that. But yeah, absolutely, man, that EQ was a, it was top notch and it was, it was nice. Nice interface. Very smooth. So, but, um, yeah, logic has it, it's not as smooth and nice as pro q3, but it's there.

Marc Matthews: 24:26

I really like the Logic eq, um, and I know it's got Match EQ as well, so I, I flick between the, the linear phase EQ and logic, which, okay, now some people might turn around and say, there, there, there are pros and cons using linear phase and it all comes down to, um, alias and, and and whatnot. And it's been a very long time since I've dug into the linear phases and FFT and stuff. So that's, that's a whole nother ballgame. Um, but I, I primarily use the Infinity UQ with the Slate Digital stuff, um, which is an i c. But like I said, I think if you, if you've got this far without using it, I can't really, I mean, apart from maybe treating, like I said, treating that low end or if you've got synths and doing that, maybe a vocal possibly. Or if you've got a reverb bus. If you've got a reverb bus. Mm-hmm. Um, and then you might want to use the mid of the mid side EQ to. Some frequencies in, in your reverb that might compete with other instruments, if that makes sense. So, no, it, if

Erlea: 25:28

you've got, I'd never thought about doing a mid side EQ on the reverb bus. I didn't think about that one, so I might have to try that one next.

Marc Matthews: 25:37

It's, it's a good one cuz also with reverb, uh, I mean if you have an EQ anyway, cuz you probably, if you have multiple reverbs in your setup, It's gonna build, you're gonna get reverb on top of reverb on top of Reve. Yeah. I dunno how your setup looks. And then what happens is you've just, that can be another reason why you get that sort of sort of sound. Yeah. But if you're using high and low cut filters, you can eliminate those rumbling frequencies and then you could use mid side to duck out certain frequencies. Maybe if you want your vocal to poke through a bit more. And, you know, your, your vocal sits the presence of your vocals, like three or four K depending on if it's male or female. You could use mid side EQ and you could duck out some mid of your EQ of your reverb, right? Just so your vocal stands out a bit more from the reverb. Does that make sense? I hope it does. No, it

Erlea: 26:23

does make sense and I'm picturing it right now and I just, I did not, I, you know, I should've used that on that track that you heard, you know, maybe cutting out a little bit of the, uh, the mid inside and just kind of ducking it, like you said. Yeah, I didn't think about that. I'd have to be utilized on the next track.

Marc Matthews: 26:39

I think, I think with that it's a lot easier if you've got a track in front of you and like you say, if you, if you are trying, if you've got an is, if you've got a problem that you're trying to solve, then I think mid side EQ is a great thing. It's a lot easier to come up with a reason to use it. Yeah. Rather than, it's quite easy to have all these tools around you and think, ah, I need I eq, mid side eq, I must use it because I have it sort of thing, you know? Yeah. It's quite easy. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, it's like with isotope. Isotope is fantastic and I love it. And you've got all these modules in Isotope. Yeah. And it can be quite easy to think, I've got all these modules, I need to use them. Um, but you don't, you don't need to use, yeah. Yeah. I had that conversation with, with um, Brian from the Color. And, uh, and that's, uh, an episode that's gonna come out in a couple weeks. And he's, and he pretty much said the exact same thing. Um, I feel like

Erlea: 27:26

I've heard that band color theory.

Marc Matthews: 27:28

I, I don't. Very good. He's a very, very talented, he's a mastering engineer and, uh, he also releases music. Very talented man. And he's on the podcast in a couple. Yeah, I feel like I've heard that. It's already recorded, but the episode's gonna be in a couple weeks. It's really, really good. Right on. Um,

Erlea: 27:43

can I ask you one more before we run outta time? Of course. So, compress, You know? Mm-hmm. I just started dabbling, you know, again, I'm, I'm still kind of very new to this. I've, you know, have the knowledge and now I'm like finally applying it. And that particular song that I showed you, I finally utilized, like, uh, busing, uh, grouping and, and busing, like the kick and the bass together and compressing it. So you see other tracks that I've done. You know, I, I don't think I've shown you, but no, I haven't shown you. I don't know why I said that, but I haven't shown you. I, I didn't use utilize any of that. I didn't group anything. I didn't compress nothing. This one, I'm just like, you know, there's a reason why people do this. Let's, let's go through the process. It's gonna be a pain, but let's figure it out and do it. And I heard the difference big time, you know, but, How much do people actually compress? Like, I mean, just even before they even do like a group bus or anything, like, you know, I always start very slow and very like, you know, the compression ratio and all that stuff. I just do very small amount. Like I think, um, you know, I did a trial. Everything's a trial for me. I did a trial of dodging. Ozone and like, um, you know, I utilize their, uh, what is it? The, like the multi-band compressor thing? I, I don't know what they call it. I think they call it like

Marc Matthews: 28:57

dynamics, something dynamic compressor. Yeah, something like that. It might just be called Dynamics, dynamics module or something. But

Erlea: 29:04

yeah, I think, yeah, you're right, you're right. Yeah. So I, you know, I, I set the bands on the, uh, you know, the low end. I think I set one band. I think like one 70 and down, and then the other band was like from one 70 to like, I don't know, 400 or, or something weird like that. But you know, I started compressing it and I think I, I think I did the, uh, it's the ratio. Yep. Or actually the threshold I see, I, no, it's a threshold actually. I set it all the way, I think I set it to like barely 17 DB or, or 18, like negative 17, negative 18. Like I very, I do it very lightly, you know, I don't know how much people actually do, like, I've seen videos or they like slam it to like negative 31 db and I think the, the, the ratio. Two to one or three to one, but it's like, you know, I, I really have no idea how much to really slam it and what sounds good to me, I don't know. Sounds great to me. Yeah. And then later it sounds muddy. I don't know what I'm doing wrong or any pointers on that one.

Marc Matthews: 30:04

Yeah, of course. Yeah. Compression is probably one of the hardest ones to hear when you start using it. Like if you've never used it before. Uh, and what you've mentioned there is when you've got someone or someone's using a really. Low. So just like minus 30 threshold with a sort of two to one or one to five, no one to five, two to one. Get it run the right way. One to two. Two to one, uh, ratio. Um, they're basically catching peaks. That's what they're doing. There is. Okay. So if you've got a, if you've got a track and they're using that to catch peaks, uhhuh, so it could be like a snare or, yeah, or a vocal. It might be the first compressor in a vocal chain use. It might be like an f e t where they have a really fast attack uhhuh and it's just, it's just clamping down on those. Okay. And then he might use another compressor after that, like an opto compressor, which is a slower attack time and that's used for like color. And that compressor has a slower attack, probably a slower, slower release again, and that's just used to add color to the track. So that's what's happening there. Um, with regards to how you'd set it up, it really depends on what you want to do for there. There are many sort of reasons, for example, with a kick drum. Mm-hmm. It all depends as well on the track. If you are recording, Like acoustic drums. Mm-hmm. Then you're gonna have dynamics and you're gonna want to compress. Yeah. But if you are programming your drums using midi, um, then there's probably gonna be less need for you to compress to catch peaks, cuz you can control that in the programming. Does that make sense? No, it does. And then you could just use like compression for color and, and like sound for example, you could use something like parallel compression. I dunno if you've used that before. It's also called like New York Compression

Erlea: 31:47

Way Up when, yeah. Yeah. I just used it in that one song

Marc Matthews: 31:50

for the first time. Did you? Yeah. So that's really good for adding like attack to a kick and giving it more body because you've got a fast attack and a relatively fast release and you're really clamping down on it and you've got a lot of gain reduction. And then with that gain reduction, you then need to compensate using your, um, by increasing the gain on the output, and then you blend it in. That's the idea with that anyway, for example, that's one way you would use compression. It really depends on the track. I'm quite old school in the way I approach it in that, for example, if I have a vocal that's quite dynamic, the first thing I do is I go in and automate the gain on that vocal before I even touch a compressor. The idea being it then takes the load off of the compressor. And also if you're recording the vocal and you're there with a person, I'd be like, no. Do you just wanna sing that again just so you can, yeah. So it's not so wild. But it's not just vocals, it's other instruments as well. If you've got a quite a high dynamic range, then I would recommend automating the gain of that first before using a compressor that, does that make sense? No, it does. Yeah, it makes it longer. It makes it longer, yeah. But it takes the load off of the compressor. It makes, it means you have, the compressor has to do. Uh huh Cause obviously with compression you are reducing dynamic range as you are really, I guess with, with the clip gain automation. Um, but how you should start, so the other question with regards to gain reduction and how much you should be applying, um, and that, that really is all down to the sound itself and how you want it to sound, so Right. With like a snare. Um, I, I mean, as a rule of thumb, I would usually start with like, I always go for like two or three db of game re. And then tweak it from there. I don't like to use loads cause I like, I like it to be quite dynamic Yeah. In the way I do things. Yeah. Um, and that's only if I've, if I have programmed that snare myself, I won't use compression to control dynamics. I'll just use compression for color and to add color to it. So that might be using something like an L, A two A em. Like loads. There are loads like that, like the cla, uh, range as well. And then I know waves have got a few, and I'll just use that just to add color to the track. And with that there, with a lot of those compressors, you'll just have like, um, you've got the gain. Input and then the output, and the more input you put in, the more it's gonna clamp down on it. And then you've gotta compensate with the gain output. Um, but it might not totally answer your question. It's a hard one to do. It'd be a lot easier if you had to track that and I could say, yeah, yeah, do this, this, and this, you know? Um, but generally what I would do is say is, um, if you've got a wildly dynamic track, look at clip clip gain automation first before using a compressor and then compress. Okay? When you're setting your compress, If you are trying to catch peaks, then yes, have quite a low, low or high thrash out. I always get those around the wrong way as well, but Oh yeah, yeah. Have a low ratio, so like 1.5 or two, um, on that. Cause if you have any higher, then you're just gonna slam it. The reason why you'd have a higher ratio, then you're moving into the realm of limit. Got it. If that makes sense when you have a higher one, because you can imagine a graph once again on YouTube. If you're watching this, you'll see you've got, cuz you could get around the right way. Be like that to begin with, with limiting basically anything above my arm. And it's gonna be like that, it's gonna slap it down and that's what offense essentially is happening when you increase that ratio. Um, but yeah, I would, I would start with that, with game reduction itself, two or three db and then work from. It really depends on how, how dynamic the track is. Yeah. And don't, don't, don't feel like you need to compress everything. Right, right. Other thing as well, because it's quite easy to think, oh, every track needs compression in eq. I just wanna

Erlea: 35:36

compress the mud, man. That's all.

Marc Matthews: 35:38

Yeah, just get rid of the mud. But that's another thing. Too much comp. Too much compression can, can sometimes bring that in as well. Oh man. You, you mentioned multi band, you mentioned multi band compression as well. Yeah. I, I would be multi brand compression is great, but, um, I would, I would just be wary of multi of using multi Are you using it on the whole mix or are you using it on like an individual instrument?

Erlea: 36:04

Um, do both. I guess it just depends on, you know, what it is. Like, I, like, like I said, lately, I've been like grouping the, uh, the kick in the bass and like another instrument that I feel has like a lot of that low end. So I'll group it and then I'll do like a multi-band on the three and like just. Compress them just to kind of get them a little leveled. Yeah. Not, not so leveled, but just kind of, I guess, like you said, like I do a very light compression to get the peaks. Yeah. And like in my mind, You know, in my, because I can't really, I mean, I can kind of hear it, but I can't really hear it maybe compared to somebody who's been doing this for years. But like in my mind, I'm imagining these things jumping all around and I'm just doing this compressor to just kind of level it out. Like I'm just working visually. I mean, I can hear Yeah. But like, I'm just imagining that's what's happening, you know? And I, I'm imagining I can't make it any worse if I'm doing a little bit. But yeah, now it's like, well, maybe it can.

Marc Matthews: 36:57

Um, you're doing the right thing with the mix, the mix Bus one though, and the instrument group in that you are doing it lightly. Cuz there what you're doing is you're adding the air quote, glue, you know, glue, yeah, the classic glue. That's right. Um, which is like a low ratio and it's just like a, probably a, a medium to the slow attack. And once again, like a medium-ish release. Yeah. Just letting it breathe, but at the same time, just, just trimming any peaks and just bring. Lower level up slightly. So that's what you're doing now, which is Right. Which is the right thing to do. Um, but all I can say with compression is just keep, keep working at it. Cuz it will eventually it will click and then you'll hear it. Um, yeah. Yeah. But just up until that point, just don't overdo it. It will be my bit of advice. Just don't overdo it and um, great. Yeah, it's, it's, it's a tricky, it's a tricky, like I said, without seeing the track, it's, it's hard to say. I would, my, my rule, another good thing to do as well is I've, I've, I've mentioned this to someone the other day with regards to setting a compressor. A really good way to do it is to, is to have the, the lowest threshold that you can get so everything's triggering it right, and then have the highest ratio, crank the gain. Don't do it so much that it obvious. Hurts your ears. Then have the attack all the way slow, then have the release all the way fast and it'll sound horrific. Okay? And then gradually dial back the attack until it starts to dull the sound and then move it. So imagine you are, you're dialing it back. You're dialing it back. Your hit starts to dull the sound and then dial it back the other way slightly. Do the same with the release. So slightly increase the release time until it starts to dull the sound and then dial it back again slightly again. And there, what you've done there is you've, you've set your attack and release sort of foundation, right, for that instrument then, Turn the game down cause it's gonna sound horrific. Turn the game down and then set your ratio to, I don't know, put it like three, three to one, four to one, and then just bring the threshold back. So you're getting like two or three DB of gain reduction. And what you've done there is you've set yourself up with like the foundations of the compression for that sound. Does that make sense? And then you can tweak it from there. Yeah, there's a lot there that I've said. So what I would say is, listen back to the podcast. That's what I was think.

Erlea: 39:14

I can go back, I can rewind you.

Marc Matthews: 39:15

Yeah. Yeah. Listen, listen back to. Um, yeah, because I, I still do this now and it's a really good, if I, if I'm unsure and I'm thinking right, I, I really wanna make sure this attack and release is right. Um, then do that. And it is a really good way to start. I can't remember who I got that from. I'm, I'm fairly certain it was Bobby Luzinski I think it was. Uh, but it's a really good way to start.

Erlea: 39:36

Yeah, no, absolutely, man. Good stuff right there. Luckily I can go back.

Marc Matthews: 39:41

No more. More than happy, more than happy to help out. I hope I've answered some questions there. No, you did, man. Always. Fantastic. So my, my, my final one for you is then sort of like off the back of what we've discussed today, what would be the first sort of actionable step that you'll take forward in the next sort of 24, 48 hours? What would be the first thing you do? Oh dude, the

Erlea: 39:58

room treatment, man, I gotta clean this room. I gotta clean it up. I gotta try to reposition these things. Cuz you know, I've, I've read it, I've, I've heard it, not heard it, but I've, I heard it in different videos. Just the whole placement and all that stuff. I just, I have to look into it more man. And I need to try to see how I can do it, do something about it, you know. So that's probably gonna be my next step is to see how I can adjust these monitors and, you know, see, you know, the appropriate position where I could. Where it'll kind of, you know, like you said, would be the best, you know? Mm-hmm. I guess audio audible like position to be in. Yeah. That could benefit, you know, the whole listening experience and stuff like that. So I think that's probably gonna be the biggest takeaway, not the biggest takeaway. Everything is great, but that's the one thing I'm probably gonna do, you know. Fantastic. Within the next few

Marc Matthews: 40:44

days. So I will send you a link. To the, to the YouTube chairman I mentioned and I'll send you a link to his, his, it's a free course and sign up for it cuz it is fantastic. And if you follow the steps in there, it is, is brilliant. It is, it is so good. And I'll send that to you. Um, so Aaliyah, uh, where can our audience find you online if they wanna listen to your music or follow you in general? Where can they find me? Oh,

Erlea: 41:09

I mean, I'm on Instagram, you know, Spotify, stuff like that. Jeez. I don't even know my Instagram name. Oh, it's actually underscore underscore ale. Underscore. Underscore, right. So cool. Yeah, you can find me on their

Marc Matthews: 41:22

ace. So I'll put that in the show notes as well. Um, so you one can go check out the, uh, the, the song we've been referring to as well, which is, Oh, thanks man. Appreciate it. Uh, no, my pleasure. Thanks for joining me today. Um, yeah, dude, folks, if you wanna be like my friend here, uh, Jonathan Elea and become a production production audit. I dunno what that is, a. Producer, Kickstarter producer, kickstart session participant. There we go. Head over to the website, www.insidethemixpodcast.podium.com and uh, get signed up and join me on the show and we can have a chat just like we've done today. And I may or may not be able to give you some advice, um, but we'll, we'll see what happens. At the very least, you can come on the show. You can give yourself a. Which is always good fun. Um, yeah. Jonathan El, thanks for joining me today. It's been an absolute pleasure and it's, uh, greatly chatting with you in person. I, we've been chatting on this screen for a while. Absolutely,

Erlea: 42:11

dude. It's cool. I've been chopping it up. It's with you a few times, so it's always fun, man. Thank you man. I appreciate you giving me the opportunity and just like helping me out, man. You're just, you're cool man. You're a cool guy. I appreciate what you're doing. Nah, man. What you're doing is really, really cool, man, because you know, people search for stuff like this and you know, it's a good thing. It's, it's great. So keep it up, man. Thanks again. I

Marc Matthews: 42:30

appreciate it. I appreciate that. Thank you very much. I'll speak to you soon buddy.