#122: Essential Basic Mixing and Mastering Mistakes to Avoid: A Conversation with Color Theory

Ever found yourself lost in the mix, wondering if there is a wrong way to mix music? Maybe you're knee-deep in questions like what to look for when mixing, how can I improve my sound mixing, or even can mastering ruin a mix. Then check out EP 122 of the Inside The Mix podcast.

Join us for a deep dive into the world of music production with our esteemed guest, the one and only Brian Hazard, also known as Color Theory. This episode is a treasure trove of knowledge for those intrigued by the complexities of songwriting, composition, and music production. We discuss the influences that shaped Brian's unique music style, specifically mentioning Depeche Mode's album Some Great Reward and the Eagles' Hotel California. We delve into the artistry of Brian's songwriting process and his insightful tips for DIY mixing and mastering.

Can minimalism enhance a music mix? Brian provides a compelling perspective on this question, highlighting his purist and minimalist approach in the music creation process. We also address the much-debated topics of multi-band compression and dynamic EQ, providing unique insights into their utility in modern production techniques. Additionally, Brian opens up about his exceptional feat of completing 72 songs in six years, underscoring the role of persistence in songwriting.

Wrapping up our engaging and enlightening conversation, we delve into the evolving landscape of music distribution and audience engagement, with Brian shedding light on his experience with Patreon. He shares how Patreon has revolutionized his connection with his audience and explores the potential advantages of the Spotify-Patreon collaboration for artists. Join us for this exciting journey into the heart of music creation with Brian Hazard, and emerge enlightened and inspired.

To follow Color Theory, click here: https://colortheory.com/

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

You're listening to the Inside the Mix podcast with your host, Mark Matthews.

Speaker 2: 0:06

Hello and welcome to the Inside the Mix podcast. I'm Mark Matthews, your host, musician, producer and mix and mastering engineer. You've come to the right place if you want to know more about your favorite synth music artists, music engineering and production, songwriting and the music industry. I've been writing, producing, mixing and mastering music for over 15 years and I want to share what I've learned with you. Hello, folks, and welcome back to the Inside the Mix podcast. If you are a returning listener, a big welcome back, as always, and if you are new to the podcast, make sure you hit that follow button on your podcast Player of Choice and also, if you're watching this on YouTube, hit that subscribe button and also the notification bell so you know when we go live and a new episode drops. So it is Boxing Day, december the 26th, and I hope that you've had your fill of Christmas food and drink, and what better way to relax and unwind than joining me and diving into the archives of the Inside the Mix podcast again For the final time. I add, and this time we are diving into the most downloaded, the most popular episode of 2023, which is my chat with Brian Hazard, aka Colour Theory. So if you're unfamiliar with Brian, he is also a mastering engineer a professional mastering engineer as well as the very talented artist, colour Theory and in this episode, we dive into music creation and production, exploring Brian's influences and favorite instruments, and he also shares his approach to songwriting and composition and shares some valuable tips on how to get started with writing a new song. We also chat about top tips for DIY mixing and mastering, including why you shouldn't bother using multi band compression and whether dynamic EQ is a good idea. Then we explore the good age old question of whether too many plugins are detrimental to mixing and mastering, and Brian shares some great advice on how to avoid common mistakes. So that's enough for me, folks. Now sit back, relax, put your feet up, grab a glass of eggnog and some leftover food from Christmas Day and listen to episode 79 Six Essential Mixing and Mastering Tips with Colour Theory.

Speaker 2: 2:17

Now, in this episode, I'm very excited to welcome my guest today, brian Hazard, aka Colour Theory. So he is, or Colour Theory, is a synthpop artist and professional mastering engineer with a passion for songwriting and producing, and has amassed more than five million streams across streaming platforms Wow, and he's going to share with us a little about his background and several songwriting and music production. Pearls of wisdom. Hi, brian aka Colour Theory, how are you? And thank you for joining me today. I'm doing wonderful. Thank you for having me Fantastic, just for our audience listening. I always ask this now because the podcast has a worldwide reach. Where are you joining us from today? I am in Huntington Beach, california. Oh, brilliant. This is totally a British thing to say now, but what's the weather like there?

Speaker 1: 3:01

Actually it's not characteristically Southern California. It's overcast, it's in the now don't don't make me do a Celsius thing it's in the. It's in the mid 50s Fahrenheit right now. So I mean, it's nice, it's. You know, I'm running in a t-shirt, in shorts, but I do that all year anyway.

Speaker 2: 3:21

So yeah, yeah, oh nice, it's um. It's moderately overcast here and I think it's about 10 degrees, I don't know what.

Speaker 1: 3:28

That isn't fan height, that makes yeah too much?

Speaker 2: 3:32

Yeah, exactly, but the fact it's overcast it's like I said just then. The reason I asked is it's the podcast. Does I speak to people all over the globe and it's so cool that there's this platform available where you can have these conversations, and it's amazing. I'm always intrigued. I was chatting to somebody earlier in Singapore, so, yeah, it's fantastic getting to meet people all over the globe Brilliant stuff. So colour theory Tell our audience a bit about your sort of musical influences growing up, which artist's song or album sort of left an indelible mark on you and sort of made you forge your career, your pathway in music?

Speaker 1: 4:09

Well, my first actual music purchase was the Eagles Hotel, california, on Cassette. I wouldn't say that that was the one that really got me into music, but that's when I started having enough interest in music to branch off from my parents. I think that was right around the time where they switched over to country music. So the album that really connected with me the most was it's not going to be a big surprise was Depeche Mode. It was some great reward, and my best friend and I we would like he was always introducing me to music. We'd play the records. We'd like to sit there and listen to music. Right, I mean, imagine that Just sit there with the sleeve open and the lyrics and you know pretty soon we're singing along. And then, sooner or later it's like okay, well, I'm going to do the higher harmonies, who we're singing along. I mean, it's pretty silly.

Speaker 1: 5:05

So I had Somebody. Of course was the song that I really fell in love with, and I remember he had a typewriter. I know I sound really old, but it was old for the time too. His mom was a professional trans. I don't know the proper transcriber. Yeah, is that really? It so for medical records and stuff. So there's a typewriter and I love those lyrics so much, I typed them up and I took them home and I, you know, dubbed it to cassette from his record and I listened to it all the time. So that was really the branching off point for me.

Speaker 2: 5:46

Amazing. I love the fact you mentioned Eagles, Hotel California as well, because as soon as you said that, it sparked my sort of nostalgia for my music influence and when I started playing guitar the reason I sort of started playing was because I wanted to do the guitar harmonies from Hotel California At the end I still haven't got round to actually doing it, to be fair.

Speaker 2: 6:08

I then went and pivoted in various other directions and then obviously you've got the Dipesh mode influence there as well, and I think it's better to say you can sort of hear that in your music, and we'll come on to that in a bit but no, that's brilliant. That's brilliant. So, as actually a musician, do you have a particular instrument that you are sort of proficient with, or do you have multiple instruments?

Speaker 1: 6:32

Yeah, well, I'm very, very proficient at the piano, more proficient than I need to be, because I actually got a degree in piano performance. So essentially I went to school to be a concert pianist. You know is what it comes down to, is what my day looked like. So, yeah, that's my main instrument. I played mallet percussion in the drum line and all the different instruments for different things, and I taught high school drum line for a few years. So you know I'm a decent percussion and can manage the drum set. I got through rock band in expert mode, the whole thing.

Speaker 2: 7:17

Fantastic.

Speaker 1: 7:18

Can't play a lick or guitar. I think at one point I could play a message in a bottle by the police, which was actually pretty impressive, and I could kind of sing it, although by the end of the song my voice was tired. Yeah, so that's about it for me. I you know, I don't really consider myself a singer. Of course that's the most important thing I do.

Speaker 2: 7:39

Yeah. Yeah, it's an interesting one being a singer, because I write my own music as well, and I always talk with the idea of thinking you know what can I sing? Should I give it a go? At what point? Because I'm always intrigued by this. At what point did you think, actually, you know what I can sing a little. I'm going to throw it down on a record and see what happens.

Speaker 1: 8:00

You know, I mean I was always doing it Like I had. In high school I was in a band called the Thought Chapter, which I named one of my albums after. It was just me and a friend and his brother and I, you know, I sang and traded off with him. And then I was in a band called European White Disco in college. That was kind of like Wham meets Duran Duran, if you could imagine that and I sang back up. So I always sang, but I never I'm not lead singer material, you know what I mean. Like I'm not going to go on a stage with just me and a mic and you know, do the things? That's just not me.

Speaker 2: 8:37

Yeah, yeah, I get you, I get you Lovely stuff. I think what we'll move on to next then is sort of the main item, which is surrounding sort of music production and a bit of writing, songwriting about your, the glass of your music. So I think it'd be good to start off with a song in particular. So if you want me to be in the title of the song, if you just break down for our audience sort of like the songwriting and composition processes or process for this particular song, how does a song start for color theory?

Speaker 1: 9:06

Yeah, so the process between songs isn't too different. So and I don't want to bore you with a huge diatribe on this but basically I have a process and then I have a process I'd like to do but I don't do. Okay, so the process as it actually happens is, you know, like most people, I hear about people having these unfinished ideas and people don't finish songs. And you see on YouTube like how to finish songs. That is not my problem. I do not have extra ideas lying around For me. I have to deliver a song every month to patrons on Patreon and with studio work, you know, you never know when that's coming in and that's obviously priority. And so sometimes you know it gets really close to the end of the month and I've got to deliver a song. So basically I am writing and recording a song in about five days, the whole thing. Yeah, so, okay. So I always start from a production snippet and so that's, you know, usually just like drums, bass, maybe some kind of lead arpeggio or synth line or just enough there to establish a feel. And the reason I do that is, you know, naturally I would write at the piano and I did my first couple albums. I wrote them at the piano and I think what I found is that I had like reviewers refer to it as an album of ballads. There's just something about writing at the piano that doesn't necessarily translate to you know, a synth pop kind of context. So I think starting with that idea and having a groove in mind makes it a lot easier. So I've got that groove.

Speaker 1: 10:59

As far as the song itself, I like to start from a title, because if you've got a cool title, that's half the battle. Probably, from there I end up producing the entire instrumental. So now I've got, I mean, every little bit, you know, even though the you know transitions and sweeps and all that kind of stuff, just because by the time I record vocals and work through the vocals and all that, like I don't want to go back and read, you know, and touch up the production and add the finishing touches. Okay, so the melody is now I'm going to poke out at the piano, or you know, synth piano, figure that out, write some lyrics, record the vocals, mix it and master. And for me the mastering is not a drawn out thing, it's really just compression, limiting and dither and anything else that needs to be addressed. I'm going to go back in the mix and fix it. Yeah, that's the process.

Speaker 2: 12:04

Fantastic. So, I find it it's fantastic that you've got the the Patreon side of things going and you've given yourself this accountability there to writing these songs, and I love that idea. And then it's almost like well, you have got a deadline, haven't you, to write this?

Speaker 2: 12:21

song for your Patreon, patreon, patreon's, and also the idea that you have no extra ideas lying around, which I think is interesting as well, because it sort of mirrors I don't have a Patreon and I'm not I'm not releasing music in that sort of format, but it's I. I personally as well. I don't have loads of ideas lying around. I sort of focus on one particular idea, or maybe two or three that are going to form a cohesive piece, rather than have multiple ideas. I mean the fact that you you don't have loads of ideas lying around. Do you think that's why you find it so much easier to to finish a song, so you're not getting just distracted by sort of like shiny objects? This other idea that I've got over there how do you stay focused on one, just one idea? Well, the?

Speaker 1: 13:07

deadline is is very persuasive, as we mentioned. So I mean, it's been, it's been six years now on Patreon. So that's what? 62 songs did I do that? No, that can't be right. Yeah, why am I having trouble with this? No, 60 is five years, right.

Speaker 1: 13:25

So 72, 72 songs, 72 tracks. So it works really well. Before Patreon it took me six years to do an album because I would just keep rehash. You know what I mean. You, you finish the last song and then you go back to the first song and you're like well, that's not up to the standard of the last song anymore, I need to touch that up. And then you, it's just an endless cycle. So, yeah, I think I just sit down and do it because it's got to be done and I don't, I'm probably not going to abandon an idea because even if the song isn't great, you know it's still going to be up to a standard I establish. And if it's a patron exclusive, that's that's even kind of cooler. You know what I mean. Like then that's something special that they get that nobody else gets to hear. Maybe a different side of me that doesn't. You know kind of mesh with the public, you know profile.

Speaker 2: 14:19

Yeah, yeah, that's great. I love that, and I think, the fact that you're releasing so many songs I mean 60,. What do we say? 72 songs?

Speaker 1: 14:28

72?.

Speaker 2: 14:28

Yeah, over six years is amazing and I like the idea that you sort of you plow on through and complete a song and it kind of mirrors the conversation I had with Ed Sunglass' kid before Christmas in 2022 where he said the same thing.

Speaker 2: 14:43

It's kind of like you might hit a brick wall or you might think, actually this song isn't quite doing it for me, but just persevere and break through and write that song anyway, because you don't know what's going to happen. On the other end which I think is a great thing for our audience, because I know I do chat and I interact with a lot of the audience and the idea of not finishing songs is one of their main pain points is finishing a song and also thinking, actually you know what, I'm going to start something else because I've got a better idea, but just yeah, I mean I've fallen far out of that, but in 2023, I've made a point now of thinking right, I'm going to write a song, I've got 30 minutes a day I'm going to dedicate to songwriting and I'm going to break the back of the song and get through and do it and it's reaping the rewards from it. The podcast does help. I speak to so many artists like yourself, and it's great for me and the audience because I can take all this information, absorb it and pick the pieces I want and create with this amazing workflow, which is fantastic.

Speaker 2: 15:35

So, with regards to your composition, so we've sorry, we've been through the composition process, so with mixing as well, so you're doing all that in five days. How do you sort of the mixing process? How do you get it for one of a way of putting it, how do you get it done so quickly?

Speaker 1: 15:54

It's not really a process, so the best example of that would be you know, I don't know if you saw this I released a cover of Depeche Mode's Ghost again within 12 hours of them releasing it.

Speaker 1: 16:10

I haven't seen this, yeah. So I found out I think I was emailing people who bought stuff on Bandcamp you know I like to send a personal email every time somebody does that and somebody replied and then just mentioned hey, looking forward to the new Depeche Mode single tomorrow morning or tomorrow or something. I was like what? Okay, I mean I knew they had an album coming out, but I tried to stay away from social media so I didn't know that it was actually coming out at that day. So I went for my run, came back, looked for the song. It wasn't there and I saw on YouTube it was going to come out like in 20 minutes.

Speaker 1: 16:48

So I, you know, got a drink, hug out, heard the song. I was like, oh, I kind of like this, I think I could do something with this, and I just threw everything aside and there it is. So the mixing isn't really a separate process. Like I don't rough everything out with sounds and just hope to fix it later. You know I've got to hear how it's going to sound in context, so I'm always kind of mixing as I go.

Speaker 2: 18:30

Yeah, I can see how that would make sort of expedite the process and make it quicker. So, with regards to the mixing, have you got any sort of like top tips for producers out there the audience listening, who are writing and mixing as they go? Have you got any sort of top tips or maybe a top tip for producers, artists that are doing that?

Speaker 1: 18:51

Well, maybe a controversial one. So I've got just a load of advice, that is, me as a mastering engineer, telling clients to do so that their mixes are prepared properly, perfect. The worst thing that they can do is to mix through compression and limiting because they want to know how it's going to sound. I know this is controversial. A lot of people swear by it. What happens is they do that and to me, if they're going to compress the whole mix, anything you do, the whole mix is kind of, by definition, mastering, in my opinion right, because it's done on the master, it's performed on the master. So if you're going to compress it before you give it to me, my hands are tied. As far as I'm concerned, the attack and release characteristics of your compressor are permanently imprinted on the whole mix. I'm not going to be able to get the punch out of it that I want. So then and I usually hear things like oh, it's only like two or three dB, which is huge. To give you a perspective, I use Unisum.

Speaker 1: 20:03

Mastering compressor is my main tool for mastering and it's the most intimidating plug-in ever. It's amazing the way that you can fine-tune the detection circuit at different frequency bands to respond to the mix. But it's only a broadband compressor, it's not multi-band, but anyway, one of the features is you can set a limit on compression. So I have it set to two dB. Like it will never compress more than two dB because I've set that as a limit. So when people say oh, it's just a couple dB before they send it to me, it's like, well, okay, there's nothing left.

Speaker 1: 20:45

So, I would just. My advice is always don't mix through compression and limiting. It's a crutch. Get it right in the mix. So that would be my number one.

Speaker 2: 20:57

Yeah, Brilliant. So what about? So, not necessarily devil's advocate here, but what about producers that are mixing into I don't know some form of like I don't know tape emulation or something like that? Would you advise, then, like, leaving that mix bus empty? Yeah, yeah Well okay.

Speaker 1: 21:21

So if you want, well, tape emulation not so much, but I mean, if you want, if you want some sort of glue compression on the drum bus, I mean go for it, of course.

Speaker 2: 21:31

That's not what I'm saying I'm not.

Speaker 1: 21:32

I'm not saying don't use a compressor anywhere in your mix, I'm just saying of course, yeah, just not on the master bus. Yeah, tape emulation is you know it's compression. Yes, somewhat, depending on how you hit it. It's adding harmonics, so it's a saturator, depending on how you hit it. I again would say if we want that color, it would be better for me to apply it after I do my other stuff.

Speaker 1: 22:03

There's a really cool again in unisom. There's a little kind of button called Higgy. I think is how it's pronounced. I think it's like a, you know, a Scandinavian thing. I don't know, I think it means sweet or something, but anyway, it's just. It's just a little kind of transistor circuit that accomplishes a lot of the same thing that I can. That just sounds amazing that you know, if I get something that's really cold and sterile, it doesn't happen much these days. But you know, like I just mastered a 20 year old album and converters were different back then, so I really helped warm that up. So I've got tools on my end, of course, to do that and I would. I would just say you know what I do. When somebody really insists on having that is I say okay, can you send me the mix both ways, with the tape emulation without, and so I know what you're going for, and then I will do, hopefully, prove to them that it was better without, but, yeah, you know, brilliant.

Speaker 2: 23:04

So, going back to what you said earlier then, about when you're mixing, see you're effectively and how, when you're mixing your music and then you master it after thereafter you mentioned there about you go back and fix in the mix rather than fix in the master, and obviously that is that makes perfect sense. So just to touch on your, your mastering chain again, of what you're using in your particular mastering For our audience listening and if they are doing their mastering at home is sort of DIY mastering. Have you got any advice? Maybe again a top tip if they're mastering their own music, yeah, top tip there.

Speaker 1: 23:45

Well, okay, so you, if I ramble, you'll need to stop me.

Speaker 1: 23:49

But no, I've got a little bit of a preach it kind of thing. So I Would I would stay away from AI mastering at all costs. I actually Consulted on Landers engine for a while and you've seen like the latest ozone has basically AI mastering built-in. So you get a little better idea of how it works and those processes and this is goes for plugins like gophos or Soothe, to any of these plugins that are in real time pushing your mix Towards a certain spectral balance that they've predetermined is appropriate for your genre, right? So if you've got this you know EDM preset then they've, they've decided like here's a tonal shape for the whole mix, that that we see across the number of EDM hits, which I mean the methodology sounds like it makes sense, right?

Speaker 1: 24:49

So yeah, yeah we want it to sound like a hit, so let's just keep pushing your mix in that direction the whole time. Where it falls apart, though, is, you know, if you've got, say, the third verse, you drop the kick out for eight bars because you know You're trying to build up some tension and you want that to sound softer. Well, these plugins don't know that, so they're gonna push, you know, the low end up now to try to get you towards that shape. That really doesn't apply anymore. Or if the hi-hat drops out, you know what now? Now we got to push all the highs, the sibilance is coming up.

Speaker 1: 25:24

So, just philosophically, it just doesn't make any sense. So that would be the main thing. So, you know, ozone, like the isotopes, are really cool. Somebody from there emailed me like a few years ago and said, hey, is there anything from our collection you want? And I said no. And then I think, just like maybe six months ago, I saw the latest one, and there was there's a tool in there I don't know if you've seen this. It you can specifically raise the level of the bass, the vocal yes, or the drums.

Speaker 1: 26:00

I have seen this Yep and I was like, oh, that looks cool. So I I said, hey, does that offer still stand? Yep, they sent me a Code for the the full like top level ozone. So I've experimented with that, I've used it. I used it on that 20 year old record because, I mean, it was basically you know it, it was thrashed. I was just trying to, you know, get, get what I could from it and there were some really interesting tools there. So the main thing there is, if you're going to master yourself like you don't have to use all the modules.

Speaker 2: 26:34

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 26:36

And think really hard if you need multi-band like the real world is not multi-band. We don't split things up and you know, and bounce them off walls differently, or you know what I mean. Like it's just especially for for people in the synth wave world. We're trying to, you know, create an 80 sound with tools that didn't exist. It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. So I, you know, I use Broadband, as I mentioned, with unisim compressor I. It has multi-band detection circuits but all the compression is broadband and I think that makes the most sense. So I would Stay away. You know when, if I'm going multi-band it's because I'm solving a problem. You know the the hi-hats, like Maybe they're fine, but when the shaker comes in in addition to the hi-hats, now it's crazy loud and so and I can't get them to fix it in the mix.

Speaker 1: 27:34

The big thing with me as a mastering engineer that the difference, I think, between me and most people is that we go back and forth and fix it in the mix and that makes my job easy. Like I'm not, I'm not here to show off all the cool toys that I have to, you know, I mean to demonstrate the way that I can, you know, work around all the problems you've created. Yeah, I want to get it right and then what happens is, over time, then the people who work with me come back with better and better Mixes and it's easier for everybody. So yeah, I would just say you know, if you're gonna do it yourself, air less is more you. Compression is the main sound, the main difference between a Mastered mix and an unmastered mix. So you're gonna want some compression and, of course, you're gonna need limiting and dither at the end of the stage and Anything else. If you can fix it in the mix, I say fix it in the mix.

Speaker 2: 28:31

Yeah, great advice, totally agree with that. With regards to fixing it, fixing it in the mix, and it sort of echoes a conversation I had a few weeks ago whereby we went through the phases of recording, mixing, mastering and how Get it right at source when you're recording, so you're not having to fix it in the mix and then get it right in the mix. So, you know, I then having to fix it in the master and it just made it just makes sense. Going back to what you said there about multi band compression Actually, no, before I move on to that bit, I really like what you said about how we're creating music that existed in the 80s.

Speaker 2: 29:28

We're using tools that didn't necessarily exist and I'd never thought of it that way and I really like that idea and I think, for the audience listening, if you think about it that way, when you next time you're producing a song, just only use tools that might I mean, you're not, probably not gonna have the necessarily have those tools to hand but maybe limit yourself to tools that you think would have been around in that particular time and see what you come up with. I think that's a great idea. So, with regards to multi band compression, why do you think multi band? Because I've heard a few people say that now audio engineers, mix engineers, mastering engineers, about multi band compression and how Not. I mean you can use it, but they kind of recommend not using it. Why do you think there is a sort of a pocket of people that like to push multi band compression?

Speaker 1: 30:12

Yeah, I, I don't know, I I Keep up. I just lately I've tried to keep up with quote-unquote.

Speaker 1: 30:20

Modern production techniques you know watching, because I honestly I Kind of stopped Upgrading my tools, doing and and this is another discussion for later but hardware since I hadn't kept up with at all for like 20 years basically. So lately I've I've kept up with Hardware tools you know doll list kind of setups and and those, and just since and with the latest Plugins, and that's why I just feel so adamant against some of these. You know Tools that are there to tame what they call, you know nasty resonances which, if you'll permit me just to explain that a little more, because that's I feel like that is so key, like people now I see it everywhere.

Speaker 1: 31:10

Like I just saw a little A mix demonstration from the guy who mixed the weekends after hours and it's on the site called mix with the masters, which, yeah, yeah, it looks cool. So he goes through the, the chain, the mastering chain and the vocal chain and and I mean it's amazing to me the record sounds as good as it does, you know, because he goes through a clipper and he's got, but he's got golf boss on the master and you just see that thing, like it's got this huge spike Pushing up at 12k, like the whole way Bobbin up and down at 12k and it's like you know, in golf us you can actually restrict the frequency range. So it doesn't. You know, that's obviously not what we want. So, but here's the thing, okay, so Acoustically, this idea of Resonances being a problem just doesn't hold water.

Speaker 1: 32:04

You know, if I'm singing, if the song is in the key of G and the bass guitar is playing a G and I'm singing a G, you're gonna see frequencies that correspond with G. Yeah, all over. That's what we want. That is a feature, not a bug. We don't need to tame that. So if I let's, let's turn this around. What if I said to you hey, I have a tool that will turn up every note that is out of key with your song. Would you like to use it? I hope that you would say no, I.

Speaker 2: 32:37

Would. I would say no to that. I would say no.

Speaker 1: 32:40

But that's what we're signing up for. So, and now I lost what the question was, because I'm just so passionate about this.

Speaker 2: 32:47

Yeah, I think it was. It started off with multi-band compression. Why why, why, why it's some some producers, engineers, etc. Advocates a multi-band compression. But what you said there about resonance is fantastic, but yeah, it was multi-band compression.

Speaker 1: 33:02

Yeah, I, I Can see. Yeah, I see it to an Ableton like a lot. They split it up with that. You know they're built in audio. I don't know you use Logic, I think.

Speaker 2: 33:15

I'm trying to remember. Yeah, I do, yes, yeah.

Speaker 1: 33:18

I own logic. I bought it because it's Cheap, rise one ninety nine. And I bought it because I had clients that I was like oh you know, use logic. Great, send me your project, I'll mix it in logic. And man just trying to learn two sets of key commands, it does not work, but Anyway, yeah.

Speaker 1: 33:34

So the multi-band thing, I mean I used to kind of experiment with it in mastering and it was interesting. It's it's arbitrary, of course, where you chop up the bands and it can kind of make sense, like if you, let's say, you're recording a vocal and the vocalist is too close to the mic and you've got proximity effect and that's coming in more on the lower register. Well then, sure, there's a particular frequency range. That really is the problem. Let's do that. Another option then would be a dynamic EQ right, where you can fine-tune just that Frequency range and not necessarily chop up the whole spectrum into bands. Hmm. So I mean, obviously there there are times where you want to Treat certain frequency ranges and not others dynamically, and that can make sense. I just don't like. I Mean the worst was back in the when the L3 came out, the waves L3, right. So you had the multi-band limiter and it. You know, I was like, oh wow, this is amazing. And you turn it up and it's like, oh, where did my base go?

Speaker 1: 34:40

You know it just yeah right, because most the energy is in the low-end. So it just did yeah. So I would say that Not to never use multi-band, but to think really hard about why you need it, for this application and and there are applications, but I very rarely reach for it.

Speaker 2: 35:01

Hmm, yeah, fantastic. Thanks for your insight on that. I'm always intrigued because I Get, like I said earlier, I get to speak to so many different people and you see all these different resources and it's quite nice when I get you hear different sides of the the coin. So I think I'm mixed metaphors there. It's interesting you mentioned dynamic EQ, because that was going to be a question of mine actually, what your thoughts are on dynamic EQ, because once again I've heard some individual set on the fence, but some are pro, some are against dynamic EQ. I mean, what are your thoughts on dynamic EQ?

Speaker 1: 35:34

Again, I rarely use it. I'm thinking about I have one bluegrass singer that I've worked with for many years and she's got a little kind of nasal is not the right word, it's above nasal but it's not a tone that creeps into her voice that I find her most pleasing asset, and so I will sometimes hit that in pro-Q3 with a dynamic band. The difference is, so you can set with pro-Q3, if you just turn it on, it's going to kind of always be compressing to some degree in that band. So instead I like to take it off auto mode and set a threshold so that it's only doing the work when that particular problem area jumps in. So again, it's really just a problem solver, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 36:34

As for wind, and that's about, I mean really I so rarely use it and I want to say I am a bit of a purist and a minimalist and I think that there are probably cases where I could get over myself a little bit and use tools like that more judiciously and they might benefit the final sound a little bit. But the byproducts of that approach would kind of haunt me, like I would hear it, and it would kind of bug me. You know what I mean. The same way, like I had mentioned, that these taming resonances doesn't make sense. It doesn't mean that if you slap gophos on a mix that it's going to sound worse necessarily, right? So there's a difference between kind of having a philosophical problem and agreeing that it has its uses or it can flatter a mix.

Speaker 1: 37:39

I don't know. It's so funny. You see, the guys at least what I've seen in Mastering is they'll put it on the beat. Oh, we just need this little tiny bit. And it's like so much you can barely hear it. It's like okay, really Did we, did that really add anything?

Speaker 2: 37:53

Yeah, yeah, I agree, and I think I'm very much in a similar camp to yourself with regards to the minimalist approach and the over-complicating things. And from what you've said there, and I don't know, from what I've seen and experienced, is there a case to say that, as when we're mixing or rather than being creative, are, is it that we're just seeking problems and trying to fix something that might not necessarily exist because we've got all? Because you see all these, like you mentioned there, with Ozone and these various different modules that you can put in Ozone, and then you're seeing them. You think, oh, I need to use that, I need to go and find a problem so I can use this module to show that I can use Ozone because we have all these things. And then is there a case to say that we might be mixing by rote rather than actually creatively, if that makes sense?

Speaker 1: 38:48

Yeah, I mean I don't think that's a danger for me. I think it can really be a danger if you're actually using presets. Yeah, I mean, presets on EQ and compression don't really make sense. I mean maybe a preset on a compressor for drums if it's a starting point for the attack and release, but even that's going to change things.

Speaker 1: 39:10

But yeah there is a mindset that we need to just get in there and maximize, Like wider is always better, right? I want more width, or even things that are helpful, for example, monoizing your low end. Do we have to do it with every track? I admit I use Baselain Pro. I don't know if you know Tone Projects, Baselain Pro.

Speaker 2: 39:39

I know Tone Projects, but not of that particular.

Speaker 1: 39:42

Oh man, their stuff is great. So they're the same company that make the Unisum Mastering Compressor. They also have Kelvin, which is a dual stage saturator. That's really cool.

Speaker 1: 39:53

But anyway, I like to check mixes with Baselain Pro, but I don't feel like everything unless it's I know it's going to vinyl. Not everything has to be in mono below 100 Hertz if it doesn't make it sound better. So yeah, I think we can maybe get a little dogmatic sometimes or want to use all the toys. I mean, I don't do this, but I could imagine going so far as to create a checklist for each element or each bus of things we need to put on or check for or fine tune. I think at the end, as long as you're using your ears and as long as you don't, you're not listening to the same track a thousand times and then trusting your ears, because we know how that works You've got to kind of get in and get out to some degree before you lose your objectivity. So I think if you can trust your ears, work quickly and in a perfect world, set it aside and come back in a month and double check the mix, then you're probably not going to go too far off base.

Speaker 2: 41:02

No, brilliant, and it's great that you mentioned that about monoing instruments below 100 Hertz 80 Hertz because I had this exact conversation with someone earlier today. Actually, we were talking about the low end and how they wanted it to sound in a particular way. I looked at the project and can you show me what you're doing in this particular instrument? Can you show me what you're doing in that frequency spectrum? And I pretty much said exactly what you said. There is, you know, necessarily. There is no rule that says that everything has to be mono there. Maybe try it, not in mono, and see what happens.

Speaker 2: 41:41

And once again, I, effectively said what you said. If it sounds good, it is good, you know. So it's brilliant. It's great when I so, it's great for me when I give someone that information, that advice, and then I hear it from someone that produced Mixed Mastering in Energy Associates itself as well.

Speaker 2: 41:58

It's great that my advice is sort of backed up there, which is brilliant. Brandon, we're not aware of time here, so what I wanted to move on to next, because this information has been fantastic, is you've released a single the serious one. Maybe just a bit of information on that one there? Can you just explain to our audience a bit about that particular song, the style of the song and what they can expect if they haven't heard it?

Speaker 1: 42:20

Yeah. So this was a tricky mix and it started in a weird way. I was kind of looking for some different drum sounds and I pulled in a 606 from Ableton and instead of just pulling in the drum samples, I think I pulled in a pattern Like I don't know if it was from some other source, but and it had all these crazy like 16th note cymbal hits. That was just. It was totally overbearing, but it was kind of cool too, and so I worked from that and eliminated half of the hits. But so that's kind of where that one started from and I'm not ever going to use a 606 again because the kick is this weird blobby, pillowy, indistinct thunk. That was really hard to get to work. So yeah, as far as the songwriting, like Well, okay, so I was pretty and I still am pretty insecure about the vocals.

Speaker 1: 43:29

That's the lowest I've sung on a track and I feel like I'm I don't know I'm tempted to re-sing it for the album We'll see if I do that and it's kind of a love song about unrequited love. But I would compare it to the police's Every Breath you Take where you. You hear it and you're like, oh, that's a beautiful song. And then it's like oh, can't you see? You belong to me. I'm like oh, Like it's.

Speaker 2: 43:58

I'll be watching you.

Speaker 1: 43:59

You're like wait maybe there's more to this than I realized. It's the same kind of thing. So the narrator is an unreliable narrator, which is always tricky You're writing words that you expect the audience to know that what the person is saying isn't actually true. So it's about unrequited love. It's a little bit stalkerish, or maybe I think it could be potentially interpreted as the the protagonist is maybe on the spectrum or just not Kind of not understanding the situation socially in the way that we would hope it would be taking. So it's kind of a tricky song, but if you just want to take it as a very pleasant love song, it certainly works that way too.

Speaker 2: 44:45

Yeah, I love what you mentioned there about the police and Every Breath you Take. It's one of those ones where actually, if you listen and digest the lyrics a bit more, there are slightly sinister connotations surrounding that song. So, yeah, it's interesting that, but brilliant, no audience. Do go check out the serious one as well. It's a fantastic song, as they all are, and obviously I'll put links to your band camp and whatnot so the audience can go away and listen to those as well. Brian, we've got one question here which is from our Facebook community. This is from a member called Tim Woodruff and I think you might have possibly answered this earlier, but his question is what is the biggest mastering mistake that you see people making and what would you do to fix it?

Speaker 1: 45:31

Yeah, I guess I would go with. Well, I said two already right Mixing through compression and limiting and feeling like you need to use every module in Ozone. Yeah, just if you're not, look, my first five years as a mastering engineer. I mean I'd like to think I was good because I probably did at the time, but it wasn't that good. It really takes a long time to be able to dial in the compression on an entire mix. And I kid you not, like I am adjusting the thousandth on the threshold, like the right, because it'll usually be three digits after the decimal point, and that last digit. You wouldn't think it would matter, you'd think it's trivial and I thought I was fooling myself for a long time. But it really makes a difference. Like there's just a sweet spot and it is so small and, like I said, I thought I was fooling myself.

Speaker 1: 46:39

There was a client, Craig Space March in Australia. I don't know if you've ever heard of him, but he has great stuff. He used to work for Universal. He may still do that and he had the ears to drill the detected. So I would adjust things by that thousandth and he would reliably say nope, nope, that was you know. So it was because, seriously, I thought, okay, you know, because you've had that right where you're mixing, and you realize later that the EQ isn't bypassed.

Speaker 2: 47:09

Yes, yeah, yes, yeah, we'll be there.

Speaker 1: 47:12

Yeah, so anyway, yeah. So my point is that it is a very delicate process. You're not confident in what you're doing and if you haven't been mastering for a long time you're probably not doing your best. At least try to minimize the potential damage. Don't compress more than you know. One to two dB tops Any problem you hear, if it can be fixed in the mix, fix it in the mix.

Speaker 1: 47:39

I would say don't master louder than negative nine luffs, if that can be a really good test. Actually, if I have a mix that I pull in and I master it at a volume that sounds about right and then I pull it and I look and it's like wow, it's like negative seven luffs, that probably means that there's work to be done in the mix. Like things are balanced right. If you've got a good mix the exception I would say is a sustained like re-space, something like that that's going to soak up a lot of energy. But for most mixes, if you can't get it sounding good at negative nine luffs, then you've got. You know, go back into the mix. And for me that means you know, bringing down the kick, bringing down the bass. I always want more, but I got to bring it down, because that's where a lot of that energy gets eaten up.

Speaker 2: 48:37

Excellent advice yeah, brilliant. And it's great that you mentioned that about the negative nine luffs as well, because that is, there's so much information online with regards to streaming platforms and advice in sort of air quotes regarding what levels should be and whatnot. So it's great to hear that you, as a mastering engineer, you're doing that. You're doing the mastering process and then looking at the level. There's sort of after as well. I've got one quick question with regards to this. So now you mentioned that you sort of after the five years, you sort of progress and whatnot, do you? It's a weird question, but do you hear like music differently when you're in mastering mode If someone sends you a song, do you?

Speaker 1: 49:21

it's a weird question but do you hear it differently?

Speaker 2: 49:23

Yeah, analyzing a mix.

Speaker 1: 49:26

Yeah, I definitely do, because what happens quite often is I will master a record and then the artist will say all right, so which is your favorite song, or do you have? Can you put it in a sequence for me? And you'd be surprised at how many artists ask me to sequence their albums, but my first, it takes me, it takes me back, because I just have not listened that way at all. And if you ask me what the best song is, it's going to be the one with the best mix, right?

Speaker 1: 49:59

At that stage. So yeah, I listened very, very differently. And I rarely comment on the music itself. You know, when I'm, when I'm mastering stuff, I just don't. Yeah, I did. It almost doesn't even occur to me. So, yeah, it's very different.

Speaker 2: 50:18

Interesting. Yeah, it's, it echoes the conversation. Once again, I say this a lot because I've had so many conversations but yeah, exactly that. And then how music is heard differently by mastering engineers. This has been brilliant. I know we've we've got one on a tangent, as I regularly do on these episodes, because I I guess we'll say something and then immediately I'll make a note and think, oh, I want to ask this question. I ended up going down a rabbit hole and then totally disregarding all the notes I've made prior to the interview, but no, this is fantastic information and our audience is going to get loads out of this. This is great and it's going to feed in nicely to like the mix engineer mastering mini series that I'm sort of collating and putting together.

Speaker 1: 50:56

So this is fantastic Brian.

Speaker 2: 50:59

where can our audience find you online? Where's the best place to go?

Speaker 1: 51:03

Well, color theorycom would be probably the best entrance. So a lot of like I'm not very up on social media, Like I'm not doing videos, I mean this is, this isn't great. I mean I realize I should probably do better, but I'm not. I have my account on TikTok but I'm not posting anything on TikTok. I don't do reels. The way to really keep up with me and get to know me would be to go to color theorycom. I've got a mailing list subscription there. I send you five of my best songs for free and that's the way I update people is through email, Of course. The next level then is becoming a patron and that starts at $3 and you, as we discuss, get a new track every month and many of those go on to be released at some point, but some don't and you have input into kind of the process and what ends up getting released and picking artwork and fun stuff like that. So it's a good time.

Speaker 2: 52:08

Fantastic. That Patreon idea is is brilliant. I love that idea that you send a music out and then, I suppose, your audience. Then they felt connected and part of the process because they're having an input, which is which is fantastic.

Speaker 1: 52:21

Yeah, it's great, it's great for me, like cover art specifically, like, okay, pick, pick a design and that gets a lot of people really involved. And I don't know if you saw this spotify I don't, I hope it comes soon but announce something about connecting with patreon so that we can have patreon exclusive material on spotify. So that would be amazing. Imagine, you know I've got a patron only album. That because, right, they're listening on spotify too and they've got a. You know they can listen to my music through a podcast link, which is still cool. They can listen on their phone. But to listen on spotify and, better yet, to have people who aren't patreon see that they can unlock this album by becoming a patron, it's uh, yeah, it's really exciting. I hope it actually happens.

Speaker 2: 53:13

Yeah, definitely. It sort of sparks the creative fire in me really thinking about it now. I wonder if they'll do the same for podcasts. That's something I have to look at and look into yeah, because they can exclusive. It's probably something I should discuss on air, but exclusive podcast episodes and whatnot, but that's further down the line. That's for another day. Have you got any key dates or anything like that you'd like to share with the audience? This episode will go live. I believe Memory Serves sort of around the beginning of April.

Speaker 1: 53:43

Okay. Well, april will be the first month I take off from releasing a track in a long time, and that's because I mentioned the ghost again thing. That was the fifth release in five weeks. It was insane and I need to break, and you need to break, and so. But what I'm going to try to do and this is the first time I'm saying it out loud, so now it may have to happen is I want to do another free plus shipping and handling offer. So I've got. I was thinking of giving away CD copies of the majesty of our broken past, which is kind of my big synthwave album from 2018, and so hopefully people can keep an eye out for that. It'll be on color theorycom. So the idea is the CD is free. You just got to cover shipping, which isn't too bad in the US, but if you're not in the US, it is bad, and it's not my fault, but yeah, and then the next actual release will be she's made of wires in the beginning of May, of course, on Bandcamp Friday.

Speaker 2: 54:48

Brilliant, excellent stuff. Brian, thank you so much for spending the time with me today. It's been great. I appreciate you've had to you get up early and squeeze this into your day yeah, it's one of those ones where the podcast is around the world, but the times suit me and not necessarily the people I'm talking to a lot of the time.

Speaker 1: 55:08

Fair enough, no, I really enjoyed it. No, thank you for having me, yeah.

Speaker 2: 55:11

No, no, it's been brilliant. It's been great to put your brains and sort of hear more about your story at the beginning and also your advice with regards to music production, mixing and specifically mastering as well, because I think this year on the podcast, the previous sort of 60 episodes haven't really touched on mastering at all, and it's been great that in 2023 there's been a this episode. There was a previous one earlier in March, I think it was so it's great to now have some mastering insight as well, because I know there are a lot of producers out there and artists who are doing it themselves and not necessarily know where to begin or I've been misinformed so it's fantastic to have you on channel about that as well, so I know they're going to get a lot out of it, so brilliant. Once again, ryan, a big thank you for joining me today. Thank you very much you bet thank you, thank you all.

Speaker 2: 55:58

Speak to you soon.