#119: What is Synthwave and Why is it so Good? A Conversation with Zak Vortex

Ever scratched your head trying to figure out what is synthwave? Maybe you struggle with topics such as how to make synthwave, what is synthwave music based on, or why synthwave music is so good. Then check out EP 119 of the Inside The Mix podcast.

Get ready to embark on a journey through the mesmerising world of synthwave and synthpop with the dynamic artist, Zak Vortex. As we navigate the vibrant culture of Bristol, UK, Zak’s home city, we uncover his fascinating experiences at iconic venues like the Fleece and Metal Geek. We’ll explore his musical journey, diving into his recent album release "Neon Horizon" and the much-anticipated upcoming "City Nights". His passion for the physicality of music really comes across as we discuss his unique experience of releasing his tunes on cassette and the distinct listening pleasure it brings.

Step into the creative mind of Zak as he shares his process, from conceptualisation to production, and how he shapes the distinctive sound of his music. Drawing on a wealth of experience with synthesizers and his favourite plugins, Zak gives us a peek into the world of sound design. He shares insights into the vibrant synthwave music community and the critical role of supporting emerging talent. We also delve into the significance of authenticity and consistency in music marketing, with Zak sharing his strategies for organic growth.

Music, after all, isn't just about the tunes. It's about the stories, the influences, and the memories. So, we rewind the tape and dive headfirst into our shared love for the guitar and bands that have influenced our musical tastes. We share our experiences from our early learning of the guitar, reminiscing about concerts and films that fanned our passion. As the rhythm of our conversation slows, we express our gratitude for the past, discuss the challenges in the music industry, and look optimistically at the future. It’s a lively symphony of experiences, insights, and music that you won't want to miss.

Click here to follow Zak Vortex: https://vortexvamprecords.co.uk/

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

You're listening to the Inside the Mix podcast with your host, Mark Matthews.

Speaker 2: 0:06

Hello and welcome to the Inside the Mix podcast. I'm Mark Matthews, your host, musician, producer and mix and mastering engineer. You've come to the right place if you want to know more about your favourite synth music artists, music engineering and production, songwriting and the music industry. I've been writing, producing, mixing and mastering music for over 15 years and I want to share what I've learnt with you. Hello, folks, and welcome back to the Inside the Mix podcast. If you are a returning listener, a big welcome back, as always. And if you are new to the podcast, make sure you hit that follow button on your podcast player of choice and also, if you're watching this on YouTube, hit that subscribe button and also the notification bell so you know when we go live and a new episode drops.

Speaker 2: 0:48

So in this episode, we are venturing into the archives of the Inside the Mix podcast and we are returning to the most popular, the most downloaded episode of 2021, which was the first episode of the podcast my interview with Zach Vortex from Bristol. So if you're unfamiliar with Zach Vortex, as I mentioned there, he is based in Bristol, that's, in the UK, and he's a synth wave and synth pop artist. And in this episode, as I say, is the very first episode of the Inside the Mix podcast. It's amazing how long we've been going and it's been an incredible ride, and long may it continue. We chat about our shared history of Bristol. As the audience may know, I previously lived in Bristol and obviously Zach does now. We discuss musical influences, current and past releases, the creative process and marketing strategies as well. Zach really does have this down, so I'm not going to whitter on for too much now, so let's dive in to the very first episode of the Inside the Mix podcast.

Speaker 2: 1:46

In today's show I have Zach Vortex. Zach is a synth wave, retro wave producer from Bristol, bristol, the Southwest, hailing from the same area as I do, which is cool. Synth wave music heavily inspired by 80s nostalgia music and the films of John Hughes, such as the Breakfast Club and 16 Candles. So yeah, bristol, zach. How's Bristol at the moment?

Speaker 1: 2:11

Well, obviously, like yourself, in the lockdown, so not to see a great deal of it, but it's a great city. I grew up in Essex, moved to Bristol four or five years ago. I absolutely love it. It's got such a vibrant culture, such good music venues. It's just a shame to see them all closed at the moment.

Speaker 2: 2:32

Yeah, yeah, I lived in Bristol a few years back and I love it as well. I was born in Bristol and then I moved to Cardiff. But yeah, Bristol's great man. I remember playing gigs at the Fleece. Did you ever go to the Fleece?

Speaker 1: 2:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Many gig at the Fleece in front of some interesting crowds supporting some interesting bands, but always good fun. Remember the Fecla yeah, yeah yeah. The boat, yeah, yeah, yeah. We supported the Dand there, which was the most bizarre pairing. We were like a bunch of whiny indie 90s kids supporting a pretty hardcore punk band interesting crowd. But they seemed to, but they didn't hurt us.

Speaker 2: 3:16

It was everything I'd hoped for. No, the Fecla is cool, man, what was the last gig I went to watch? I think I went to watch a Metal Geek at the last time. I knew I think it's just before we went into lockdown last year. But yeah, the Fecla is cool, the Fleece, the Fleece that's still going, isn't it?

Speaker 1: 3:31

Yeah, yeah, love the Fleece. Saw M83 there a little while ago. Space, if you remember your 90s indie, which is all I do I do Space?

Speaker 2: 3:41

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've been to a few. I think I played the Fleece a few years back. I think it was like an all day multi genre event and we were heavy metal. I think everybody else was sort of like singer, songwriter etc. So yeah, it was interesting, man, it was interesting.

Speaker 1: 3:58

They're always the most fun cards to be on aren't they?

Speaker 2: 4:03

I think we were the band. Everybody went to the bar. I think that's pretty much what happened when we played. But now you've moved on to sort of synthwave. So you classify yourself as sort of synthwave, retro wave. You released a song a couple of weeks ago which is the single from your upcoming album.

Speaker 1: 4:21

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I released an album fairly recently well, sort of mid last year, and didn't think I've only been doing retro wave, synthwave for a little while. I sort of I came late to it, but I've always been in bands playing synth music. Yeah, so I sort of came late to synthwave, retro waves, but I did record an album and that and it ended up doing really, really well. I was like genuinely very surprised and very flattered and appreciate everyone who went out and bought it. It sold out twice in days, which was totally unexpected. So whilst I was recording that one, I was writing another one, so we don't have come out quite close to each other. There's a new album coming out, sort of start of April, which I think is bigger and better than the last one, and I'm really pleased with how it sounds. It's just I've sent it away to get professionally mastered. It's come back. It sounds pretty good. I'm pretty happy with with what the product Nice.

Speaker 2: 5:24

So the album you released first off, that was released. Did I say, was it released last year? Was it last?

Speaker 1: 5:29

November, yeah, yeah, yeah, around October, november, neon horizon yeah, but yeah, so they were. They were tracks that I had written over the year, yeah, so consolidated into an album, whereas what I like about the next album, city Nights, is it's an album that I wrote to be an album. Right, I feel like it. It feels like when you listen to it. I'm hoping people will find, or at least feel, what I feel, which is that it feels like one piece of work that was meant to be in that like in that order, and the way it flows was written in that way. So it's very different to the last one, which I would say it was more like a collection of songs that I'd accumulated over a year, whereas this one was written as one piece of music and I think it shows it. It sort of blends through both sides of the cassette. So, yeah, I'm really pleased with how it's come out.

Speaker 2: 6:21

So when you released the first album, what sort of process do you go through for the release? Did you release it, or I saw it was it's on Bandcamp, isn't it? Yeah?

Speaker 1: 6:30

It was all very, very new to me. I've been, so I sort of discovered Synthwave. I've been playing in bands as we were just discussing a lot around Bristol, a lot around the West country synth bands, but with heavy guitars. But I've always felt a bit I don't know not been that excited by new music. So, yeah, I was still listening and writing 90s indie music and then, and then I think I, like most people, I watched it's going to sound really cliche, but I watched it, I listened to those types of bands and I'm and it made me feel something, made me feel the nostalgia that I'd been looking for, that I was getting with the 90s stuff.

Speaker 1: 7:14

But because I was born in the 70s some of an older guy so I sort of grew up as a child in the 80s and absolutely, absolutely sort of adore that period, and so that it was the first sort of music I'd heard that got me excited. Since the days of I don't like glow and oasis, yeah, battle each other to get to the top of the charts. It was the first time I felt that feeling again. So I've sort of gone, gone in, all in on it.

Speaker 2: 7:38

Yeah, yeah, 100%. You mentioned drive there, did you? Did you see the? I think it was, it was. It was radio one that released like a reimagining of the drive soundtrack. Did you ever hear that?

Speaker 1: 7:48

Yeah, yeah, I got the. I bought the Blu-ray when it came out. Yeah, it's on the the Zane low.

Speaker 2: 7:55

That was it. Yeah, yeah, zane, like when it was Apple.

Speaker 1: 7:57

Yeah, it's absolutely fantastic. Yeah, can't. Yeah, I think it was just that world that they created and and then I think stranger things. So the first song I ever wrote was called Vortex theme, weirdly and and a lot of people said it sounded like stranger things, a stranger things, which wasn't the intention. But I think it was those types of things, that and the world they created and that feeling that it gives you from that 80s, feeling that you sort of yearn because it was a simpler time, right. So I think that's what drove me to write that type of music.

Speaker 1: 8:33

Yeah, and to answer your question, I wasn't really sure how to release an album. What had been happening is I've been releasing singles that were progressively getting more popular, which again, I'm absolutely astonished that people are listening to my music. It means absolutely everything to me. But that's when I decided to do an album, knew I wanted to do on cassette. I collect cassettes as loads down there. I always have collected them again, being an eighties child and then decided to put it on Bandcamp, did a pressing and did a pre-order and it sold out immediately and I was pretty stunned by that. I was very surprised. Then we organized another pressing to happen, or I think you call it pressing with tapes. I'm not sure. I think so, isn't it? Yeah, a run. Maybe they sold out as well. So that was the process.

Speaker 2: 9:23

It's really cool to see cassettes selling out and they're being called for cassettes. It's so cool. I've seen it on your social media, on Instagram and Facebook, etc. They just look cool as well when you see a post with a cassette and you've got the artwork behind it as well, it just looks so cool and so alluring from a fan's perspective. Something different, because it's all well and good. I suppose you've got to get your music out of there somewhere. Actually, just putting a post up saying here's my music, check it out on Spotify. It's not as engaging. I don't know I could be wrong. I don't think it's as engaging as seeing a retro cassette, something tangible like that. I agree, and it's so cool, and it's cool to hear that. How many have you got then? How many cassettes have you got in your collection?

Speaker 1: 10:11

It's probably about 30 or 40. It's not huge. I haven't got meant from when I was younger, but I do like to try and support up-and-coming artists, so I've recently bought the Last Concord's cassette, nostalgia Kid. These are all up-and-coming syntho advice that have created really, really good albums that I've really enjoyed and I think one of the reasons you're right, it's great to feel the physical product, but also it's one of the few ways I ever listen to an album. I don't know if you're the same, but I find, if I'm listening on Spotify, very rarely would I listen to an album start to finish. It would normally be here track there. But when I put a cassette on my Walkman or in my boombox next to me here, I would listen to it the whole way through and, as I said, I think that's the way the artist wanted you to listen to it.

Speaker 2: 10:59

Yeah, yeah, I suppose. Yeah, when you think about it, when you develop, going back to what you said earlier about you developing that second album, and you're going to have it. So it's going to run from start to finish and it's designed for you to listen to it that way. And listen to it on tape sort of forces you to do it that way. Because you are right, when I listen to Spotify I find it's on shuffle. Yeah, my songs put on shuffle or a playlist. If I'm trying to find new music, I'll go to a playlist and that is just a playlist that somebody has curated of singles. So you don't get that experience. And also, do you have the inserts as well in the cassette? So you know when you have a line. When I used to get CDs and I read the CD insert I can't remember if you get those with cassettes I think you do?

Speaker 1: 11:38

Yeah, not as much. I collect vinyl as well. I've got quite a bit of collection of vinyl down there, nice, and obviously vinyl surveys are similar experience and vinyl's got that great sound quality that you expect. But yeah, I just like to own that physical product and I like to help out. It's good for the artist, right? Yeah, it's helping them out in what is a very difficult time for musicians to make a living. 100%. Anything I can do to help musicians out, I'm going to do it.

Speaker 2: 12:06

Yeah, that's cool man. It's something like putting this podcast together is sort of a new venture for me in itself, and it's speaking to sort of independent artists is what I want to do, and just not saying I have a massive reach by any stretch, but being able to just help get the word out there and also, I think as well, just by chatting to other artists and starting that network, because I think, like you I don't know I came into sort of like the synth, actually creating synth music, probably about a year, year and a half ago, and I hadn't realized that the community that is out there when you go on to things like Facebook, instagram, all these other sort of rabbit holes that you can go down, and it's huge. There's so many artists out there in this particular genre, which is really, really cool. We'll be right back. Attention.

Speaker 2: 12:57

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Speaker 1: 14:07

Yeah, you're right, but everyone I've spoken to and I speak to a lot of people now everyone's been really friendly. Everyone's been supportive. I've not found any issues with people accepting new musicians and accepting new synthwave artists at all so far.

Speaker 2: 14:26

Yeah, yeah, I totally agree, Because I think in other genres you get coming from the metal background, you get your gatekeepers, as it were. So it's very much, I suppose synthwave. Synth music is quite the same because you've got all the subgenres that lay out, lie underneath it. You've got your synth music and then there's synthwave, retro wave, dark wave and everything else in between. But it's really cool to not have that sort of gatekeeper experience. Everyone's just really accepting of new artists and willing to offer that feedback and help and share best practice, which is really really cool.

Speaker 1: 15:05

Absolutely. I've spent a lot of time on different reddits or Facebook forums asking for production tips and everyone's just been so welcoming and helpful and teaching you how to do this with compression and do this with gated reverb or whatever it might be. Everyone's just happy to help, which is just as I say. I like the scene as much as I like the music. I like the people.

Speaker 2: 15:36

Yeah, 100% man. So, going back to influences, what you mentioned earlier, you touched on stranger things. I think for me as well, when I've always been a massive. I was born in the 80s so I didn't really experience I was young in the 80s but it's always something that I've been really fond of is the look and the feel and the character of the 80s. So when I saw Stranger Things it sort of set me off on that pathway to thinking actually I want to start creating music. I was kind of inspired by the Duffer Brothers and it's basically the interest for Stranger Things and I've been down the heavy metal route. I've done all that. I've been in a band for a number of years and I thought actually I'll just bring it in house and do all the production myself. What is your production background? Is it sort of like self-taught? How long have you been in the production sort of game?

Speaker 1: 16:30

Well, I've been, so I've been. I played so without giving my age away. I know my series and I played my first ever gig when I was 14. I remember it really clearly because we had to lie to get into the venue and it was in this pretty rough pub in Clacton on Sea. We had a handful of sex pistol covers that we'd learned because there's only three chords and it was about what we do, but it didn't matter at the time, it was so much fun. And then I was in.

Speaker 1: 17:01

I've been in bands pretty much ever since then, up until recently, and then when I was moved to Bristol, I was in a band called the Citizens and we played a lot around the area and we did get a small sort of publishing deal when we recorded an album through that. So I wasn't really into production as such. I was a songwriter and a musician but was really fascinated with the production side of things and then sort of moved into production from there. So, like foremost, I'm probably I would say I'm a guitarist more than I am a producer or a pianist. But they're all things that I find extremely exciting that I'm trying to learn. The production side of things is just one of them, things that I don't think you ever master, right Every day, and then something new. I was listening to your stuff earlier and it sounds absolutely fantastic, and so I don't think you ever master it. I think you always learn and it's always changing, but that's for me the bit that's exciting.

Speaker 1: 18:11

I do try and include guitars into my songs where I can, but they have a real 80s sound to them. I'm pretty particular about making sure the guitars are absolutely swamped with chorus and reverb and get that sound that I want. So I probably I'd probably describe the new album what I'd like to think of it is if you sort of took FM 84, timecop 1983 and maybe the midnight and mixed them all up that sort of what I think it sounds like to me, and I'm not trying to. I had this conversation with someone yesterday. I'm not trying to take synthwave in a new direction, not trying to revolutionise anything. I just make music that I like to listen to and as a result, I hope other people will enjoy listening to what I make, and so far some people seem to, so I'm really pleased about that.

Speaker 2: 19:09

I have to agree. I think you're definitely right. I think making music that you enjoy and you want to listen to Because I think there have been times where I've listened to stuff thinking actually I'm going to have a go at making that, but I'll have a go at making it, but it's not necessarily what I want to enjoy making and sort of like making synth and just playing around with digital synths. Unfortunately, I'm not privy to any sort of analog hardware one day, hopefully. But just playing around and making that sound design and something new and creating something that you enjoy and, let me say, if people enjoy it off the back of that, then fantastic. I think it's definitely the way to go when it comes to creativity, definitely.

Speaker 1: 19:48

And I don't. Yeah, exactly, I totally agree. And I don't have a style for writing songs at all. I watched an interview recently of Noel Gallagher and he was saying that sometimes some of his best songs are written whilst watching something on TV strumming his guitar. And so many songs off the last album were written on a guitar whilst doing something else, thinking, oh, that might work as a synth riff, and then working it out on the synth, yeah. And then other songs start for me from just finding a sound, playing around with the presets, messing around with the presets, and then suddenly on Logic Pro, I use Logic Pro and then thinking, oh, that could work, and then sometimes the song will just be all organically from that.

Speaker 1: 20:37

So I don't have from a sort of creative aspect. I don't really have a way I do it. Every song comes out different. Sometimes I'll sit down and go, I want to write a song in this style, and it happens. And other times nothing comes. And that was the same in a band. The amount of times we said, oh, we're going to jam a new song tonight and nothing came. And then the next week three or four ideas have come. There is no set way for me in the way I write my music, that's cool.

Speaker 2: 21:04

You mentioned that you use Logic Pro. Have you always used Logic Pro? Have you used any other doors at all?

Speaker 1: 21:10

No, not at all. No, I've only ever used Logic Pro. Yeah, I think, as I've learned, I feel fairly comfortable with it. I don't think I'll bother venturing out side of that. I quite don't like things.

Speaker 2: 21:25

Yeah, I would agree. I use Logic Pro myself. Previously, when I was recording actual artists, I'd use Pro Tools. But I just find Logic is, in terms of its, intuitive and it's just easy to use the writing process, isn't it? You can come up with something pretty quick, I find, yeah, and the MIDI aspect of it is quite powerful. I think there's the recent update now where you can actually use the clip update, which I haven't properly looked at yet, to be fair. But what I find is, with technology I don't know if you find it as well there are so many. You've got Logic, you've got your DAW and then you've got a wealth of plugins. There are plugins everywhere. Do you have a stock? Do you have go-to plugins that you use in your production?

Speaker 1: 22:13

Yeah, yeah, I do. There's a few, so I'm going to try and remember their names, I think for my guitars. I think it's called Bias 2. I think I've done that right, I should have made the note.

Speaker 1: 22:26

That's a fantastic piece of software. What's beautiful about that is it allows people to upload their sound designs and you can download. So that's an absolutely fantastic piece of BST. I couldn't recommend that enough for anyone who wants to record guitars. Sometimes, as you can see, I've got an orange amp down there. Sometimes I will mic up the amp, but some of these presets that people have uploaded are so good I will just plug straight into Logic Pro and use that. So Bias 2 for guitars, Ciarum, mostly for synths, and then is it Tau. You know as well, I use Is that T-A-L Tau?

Speaker 2: 23:15

Yeah, yeah, I know the one, and I use that as well.

Speaker 1: 23:19

I'm not a master of synths, so I normally start like probably a lot of people do with a preset and then adjust that to work how I want it. On my new album there's a cover of an Eagle song called Journey of the Sorcerer and that whole idea came from a preset in that Tau T-A-L. You know I think I'm standing it right. That just made me just think of that song, which is why I did that cover. So that's sort of my process for picking the sounds and the sort of plug-ins that I want to use. I'll find something that sounds close to what I had in my mind and then tweak it, and so it sounds exactly as I imagined it would if that makes sense.

Speaker 2: 24:05

Yeah, yeah, it does Go on off on a slight tangent there. You mentioned the Eagles and then Eagles cover. There was a. I was listening to your tracks on Bandcamp yesterday and there was another song. Oh, I wish I made a note of it. Now I cannot remember it, but at the beginning it kind of reminded me a bit of what's the Eagles track. Oh, I can't even remember the name of the Eagles song. That's got to really bug me, really really bug me. But it was in the beginning. No, it's gone.

Speaker 1: 24:32

That's really bugged me now. It's hard, yeah, and you're probably right. Yeah, that's when my dad was alive. Our favourite pastime was that listening to his LPs. So I grew up listening to Eagles, led Stepplin and Max Atliff, and it's hard not to take those influences in. But I think it's a good thing to do that. That's why one of the reasons I did an Eagles cover because they were my dad's favourite band and I thought I can take the things he influenced me on and I can put my twist on it. And the whole reason I do music at all is because he taught me guitar when I was very young.

Speaker 2: 25:15

And it grew from there. That's really cool, man. Going back to the Eagles again, I will remember that song by the end of this. Which one it was, but the Eagles. I remember when I started playing guitar and it was. It was Hotel California's Eagles, isn't it? Yeah, it is yeah, it is yeah. And it was Hotel California and I remember listening to that and it was the harmonised guitar solo at the end. That's incredible, yeah, 100%. And I was like I want to play that, I want to know how to do that and that's what got me into playing guitar and very much like it was. My dad had the Eagle CD and I remember listening to it. I'm trying to think if I ever mastered it. I got the intro, I got the intro down, but as a guitarist it was always the way I would think I'm going to learn a whole song. I'd learn a riff or two and then I'd just stop, and then I'd move on to another one.

Speaker 2: 26:08

What sort of? Was it the Eagles? That influenced you to play guitar? What other bands got you into playing guitar?

Speaker 1: 26:14

I think. So the first concert I think I ever went to was Geoffrey Toll Ah cool when I was about six or seven maybe, and then it was just hard rock concerts, because my dad was pretty much into sort of hard rock in the day, so I think it was a mixture of all those bands. And then I saw weirdly, I saw a film called Crossroads that has Ralph Machio of quite a kid-faming it.

Speaker 2: 26:44

He did another film.

Speaker 1: 26:45

I didn't even realise he did another film.

Speaker 1: 26:47

If you're into guitar, you should definitely check it out. It's based on the life of Robert Johnson, who's a famous blues musician, but it ends with a guitar competition or cutting teeth. They call it Ralph Machio goes against his character, who's played by Steve Vier, and it was that dual guitar. That was the thing where I remember saying to my dad oh, dad, I want to do this. So he said okay, son, I'll get you a guitar. But we were pretty poor growing up where we grew up in Essex, and he bought me an acoustic and I was like that's not quite going to do what I had in mind. I don't want to play many Steve Vier songs on this.

Speaker 2: 27:26

Yeah, I think I did the same, I think, when I wanted to play guitar. I think I got £30. It might have been for Christmas or a birthday or something. So I went to Argos and I bought a nylon strung acoustic guitar. I was thinking I was going to play the Eagles and I think I was self-taught. I think I was self-taught playing guitar until I was about 20. Then I went into a recording studio. I went to record an album, realised my technique was absolutely atrocious and I just hit and bum notes and stuff all the time, and it made me realise I needed to take lessons. So I basically then found a guitar tutor who basically had to reconstruct my technique, which was hard work. You've got all that muscle memory ingrained in you and then going back to it. But going back to Robert Johnson you mentioned Robert Johnson. Then I can vaguely remember the story. He's a blues guitarist. Is that the one where he sells his soul for the devil?

Speaker 1: 28:22

Yeah, that's the legend, isn't?

Speaker 2: 28:24

it yeah.

Speaker 1: 28:26

And that's what the film Crossroads is about. It's about, I think the concept is there's a missing Robert Johnson song. They go on this mission to find it, but it's all about selling your soul to get better at the guitar or whatever it is you want to do. So yeah, that was Robert Johnson and that's basically the plot of the film.

Speaker 2: 28:51

I'm still amazed at Rough Matching. I did another film. I'm going to have to look him up on IMDB and see what he's done. Have you seen that Going off a tilt tangent now? Do you follow Karate Kid and Cobra Kai? Have you seen that on Netflix?

Speaker 1: 29:03

Yeah, I love Cobra Kai Just finished season three. I won't say anything for any spoilers. Yeah, yeah, I couldn't watch that, me and my eldest. I've got a 16-year-old son. We watched that in two nights.

Speaker 2: 29:14

Yeah, well, from one to three, or just season three, Season three, but we just bingeed.

Speaker 1: 29:19

I think it was 10 episodes in two nights. They really captured. They did it really respectfully and really captured the original feel of Karate Kid for me and that feel of that 80s feel. They did that exceptionally well, which makes watching it just a real joy, Because often when you hear about these things you think, oh, please don't do this. Yeah, you know it's going to be a disaster, but that couldn't have been better, I think.

Speaker 2: 29:45

Yeah, I'd say they agree about it. I think I heard a rumor that they were going to do a remake of Top Gun, or it's going to be Top Gun 2. And then I'm a big fan of Top Gun and I was scared much like you where my head and my hands thinking, oh no, don't, don't, just leave it, just leave it where it lies. But I think Cobra Kai is fantastic. Yeah, he's done such a service to it. And now when I go back and watch Karate Kid I watched Karate Kid one the other day and I just watch it with a totally different perspective now. So, like, see it from Johnny Lawrence's point of view it's so, so good. But yeah, I won't give anything away. No spoilers, no.

Speaker 1: 30:21

And that one of my favourite films ever is Big Trouble in Little China. Oh yeah, I heard somewhere the other day they're going to remake that with the rock. I was like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's not happening.

Speaker 2: 30:34

No, that cannot happen, because, oh, why would you do that? I don't understand why you would do that, why you just wouldn't let sleeping dogs lie man, why you was going there and trying to recreate it, and why would they cast the rock? Well, I suppose it's the. I suppose. But, yeah, find something. He's not in at the moment, isn't it? It's the case of that, really, yeah, so go back to your music. So I was listening to the first album yesterday, picking, I think, the two stand-out tracks for me when I was listening to it. I made a note of them here were Le Broc and Strange Time. So Le Broc is harking. Is weird science, right, kerry LeBoc? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 31:14

I'd yeah, exactly when I was. When I was I don't know what would I have been in the 80s Like when I was 10, 11. In the 80s I didn't have a friend, I didn't have a picture of Kerry LeBoc on their wall. I'm doing it myself, so I just thought there's nothing more 80s than Kerry LeBoc. So that was the inspiration for the song. And I think you said earlier I loved John Hughes films, grew up watching them, sort of weird science, pretty and pink 16 candles. These are all my favourite films. So it was easy for me and I think what I tried to capture with that song and again, I used a plug-in called Super VHS on that which gives it that cassette sound.

Speaker 2: 32:02

Was that for the vocal, for the spoken word?

Speaker 1: 32:06

No, no, it's for the synths. So the synths have a bit of a cassette wave sound to them. That's what this plug-in does, and that was done because I just really wanted to create that sort of feeling of watching a VHS tape of something like Weird Science we've Kerry LeBoc in it, yeah. And then I was going back to sort of what inspired me to write songs that was inspired by watching Weird Science, thinking how could I sort of capture this film, this feeling I get from watching this film, in a song, and that's what I tried to do and that seems to have been well received that song. People seem to like it.

Speaker 2: 32:41

It's been able to go on like this. Yeah, yeah, I think it's fantastic, so it's a really, really good song. And then Strange Times. Now, if I remember rightly, does that have there's guitar in that? One in particular isn't there in Strange Times, if I remember rightly? Yeah, so I think it touched on the guitar at work earlier, so is that you playing all the lead on those tracks?

Speaker 1: 33:00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, as I said, originally I'm the guitarist. I started as a punk guitarist. I said to you earlier we played with the Damned when they toured the UK. So primarily I grew up as a guitarist. So that's sort of where my passion lies and I want to sort of keep adding that element to my songs because it just I think it works If you get the right sound. We talked earlier with that by two plug-ins that I use, if I get the right sound. I just think it really works. It really captures that sort of 80s rock sound and there's probably more in the new album. There's probably more guitar rhythm as well, because mostly on Neon Horizon, the previous album, the guitars were mostly for a short solo in a song. There's more rhythm guitar in the new album, which I think really works with the synths and everything else. Oh yeah, that's me playing the guitar, yeah.

Speaker 2: 34:08

Yeah, that's cool. So you're trying to incorporate more rhythm guitar into it now? Because I've been trying to do that myself in my own productions and I'm still trying to find that perfect sound for rhythm guitar to sort of blend in with synths et cetera. And I don't know, I think a lot of producers, a lot of artists are perfectionists and constantly tweaking sounds and it's a case of knowing when to stop. But it's cool to hear that you can be bringing in that sort of that crossover into actual rhythm guitar as well. It'd be really, really good to hear you haven't been tempted to sort of outsource any saxophone or anything like that.

Speaker 1: 34:48

I had not on this album I haven't, but I have a song that I did with a really talented guy Jamie Leeson his name is and he played sax and it came out really, really nice. So it's definitely something I would do again. The saxophone definitely works for that 80 sound, totally. Yeah, there are, there are some synth sax on the new album. I use it sparingly because I don't. I don't want to try and pretend it's a real sax because I think you can tell with brass instruments that it isn't. Yeah so, but I do use it sparingly. Absolutely swamped in her reverb again, but yeah, so I have worked with a saxophone player and it's definitely something I will do again.

Speaker 2: 35:37

Yeah, I think for me as well, it's something I'd like to approach at some point. I don't, I don't know when I would do it. It's finding a saxophone player as well. I've never been in a situation where I've needed to find one. So I I don't know how hard they are to come by. I know, for example, a drummer. Drummers are ridiculously hard to find. Yet I don't know. I don't know how easy it would be to find a saxophone player. But no, I totally agree. I think it's that sound of the 80s and it's you sit, you hear it now. I don't know. Do you hear it creeping into modern music? I think it is more and more, certainly since the synth wave and synth music, and that synth aesthetic sound is certainly creeping into pop music, particularly the latter end of that last year, probably more so this year as well. So it'd be interesting to see how that plays out, I think. And the introduction yeah, you probably you, probably right.

Speaker 1: 36:26

I'll be honest, I haven't listened to anything new for a very long time and I think that's why synthwave grabbed me, because I was desperate to find something new. I, even even my children, are listening to Ian Brown, Stain, rose is. There's not a lot of pop music like new pop music in the house, but yeah, the scythe in synthwave it's. It's, I think, the reason I'm as passionate as I am about it, or retro wave or whatever you call it. I don't get too involved in the naming of it, but what, whatever it's called, it's, it's. It's exciting to me because it is a. It is new music being made by new artists. That that I really really get a feeling from, which hadn't happened to me with with, I think, modern pop for quite a while.

Speaker 1: 37:18

Yeah, I did enjoy the new wave metal period I grew up. I loved Metallica. I loved sort of ride, the lightning and justice for that period. I made it and really didn't like. I found it difficult to associate with metal, metal music sort of that sort of Lincoln Park and not disrespecting these bands, but that like new mess. I struggled with metal then and then I'm not really feeling it now either. So it's nice to have discovered a form of music that's being made by new artists that I feel so passionate about, because I did wonder if it would ever happen. Yeah, I say you mentioned that you kids at the moment.

Speaker 2: 37:59

So they're listening to Ian Brownstone Roses. Are you sort of, is the the musical influence from you? Are they starting to learn instruments as well? Is that something that they're trying to do? Is that something that they're going to be pursuing? Do you think?

Speaker 1: 38:12

No, I don't think so. I bought my six year old a half size guitar and it's just, it's an ornament in his bedroom, but maybe, maybe when he's a bit bigger. But I don't see that they're both. Both my boys got six and 16 year old. They're both really into music, yeah, but I don't show any interest in in performing or playing or learning it. That's fair enough.

Speaker 2: 38:35

So, going back to your influences then for it's actually before I ask that question you touched on sort of naming of synth, because I'm much like you in terms of relatively new to the scene I guess a year, year and a half in and actually the naming of synth, because, like you, I generally call it synth music. I'm still unsure what to call it, to be honest at times. So, sort of like when I'm trying to find new artists, I'm still trying to work out like what actually, what? What? What descriptor should I use to to find these, to find new artists to listen to? So yeah, I sort of settled on synth music as well. I don't know what you think, is it?

Speaker 1: 39:16

I try not to put it like I don't know. I try not to put boundaries on it in that sense. I know it sounds very potential but I don't set out to say this is going to be a retro wave song or yeah. So our point earlier when I start composing it, last term, it's just something that feels right and if it gives me that sort of 80s nostalgia feel, then that's what I go for. So I don't know. Yeah, I've never really been too concerned with that synth wave, retro wave, dream wave, chill wave or however many other waves. But yeah, I like listening to FM 84, timecop 1983. I said earlier, I think I've got dozens of cassettes of bands like that and I just love that sound. It gives me that feeling and that's the feeling I want to try and recreate. So I've never tried to work out whether Timecop 1983 are dream wave. I don't think they care and I don't.

Speaker 2: 40:17

No, I totally agree. I totally agree Because I, as a side venture as well, I'm sort of moving into the, the mixing and sort of mastering Avenue as well, and part of that is especially, it's kind of like having I don't want to be too broad, I want to then focus into a particular direction. So I constantly find myself thinking, I like, what am I going to wear? Am I looking sort of thing, and at the same time I'm like I don't really want to have a particular needs. I think I'm battling against myself a lot because I'm very much like you in a case. I just want to make music that I think sounds good and if it happens to incorporate those elements and fantastic. If it doesn't, then it's not part of that particular scene. It's tricky. And you mentioned that the midnight FM 84, timecop 83, would you consider in terms of sort of like, the big synth artists? Would those be the influences for you? That makes sense.

Speaker 1: 41:14

Yeah, I would say so. And Nina I really enjoy. Oh yeah, yeah, I think you could. I think people like Nina could become huge stars because I think their songs are so well composed to. Her songs are so well composed that it's more than synth wave with vocals it. I think they're fantastic songs. Same with the midnight as well, but I'm just as influenced and inspired by, as I said, the last Concorde Nostalgia Kid. There's lots of acts that aren't as big, that are just making fantastic stuff, and that's the beauty of this scene is there's always new music to listen to.

Speaker 2: 41:55

So if yeah, I totally agree, so totally agree, if you were going to move, have you considered like moving into like the live aspect, the live performance, and if so, how would you think you would go about it?

Speaker 1: 42:08

I've given that a lot of thought with, interestingly, because it's definitely something I miss. It's something you get a bit of a like we were talking earlier about a sort of gigging around Bristol and it's definitely something I miss doing and it's hard at the moment to imagine that in the UK. Yeah, totally, but I yearn for that day to come back and absolutely I'd like to do it again. As I said, I saw MAT3 at the fleece and I was blown away by that live performance. So, although I don't know if you would call him Synthwave, but whatever his music is, it's very synth orientated and it's very digital sounding to me. But live it had a full kit bass, guitarist and it sounded incredible. So that's how I would see me doing it. To be honest, I could see it.

Speaker 1: 43:01

I'd like to start working more with vocalists in the next not the one coming, but the album after and if the timing's right, I would definitely see myself trying to perform live with a band. Yeah, I'd like to do it. When I was in the citizens before, our singer had multiple synths. We had guitars, bass. We were playing synth music back then, although it was probably darker and heavier than what they make now. I've been on stage playing sort of synth music and know that I enjoy it and have a good idea of how I would do it. So yeah, I've given it a lot of thought and let's just hope that this situation sorts itself out soon and we can sort of do that again.

Speaker 2: 43:50

Yeah, I totally agree, totally, and also, like Echo and what you said there, I miss the live element of performance as well and that interaction with the crowd. I think that's probably the main thing I miss from being in a band. One of the reasons I stopped doing the whole band thing was it became too business orientated for me and it took away the creative element. And I found, when it got to the point whereby someone would sort of say we need to write something, and then I kind of just be like ugh and I thought, ah, it's probably time that I move on. But I do look back with sort of fondness of the live element and performing Very different, yeah, and hopefully. I mean the live industry has been hit so, so hard and you just hope that the decent live venues are able to come out the other side and we can have these live shows, we can all meet up at these live venues again, because it's such a shame.

Speaker 1: 44:46

And it really is. Well, I hope that in a year's time maybe me and you can have a beer in the fleece.

Speaker 2: 44:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or the hatchet. I often go to the hatchet, or gigs, yeah, yeah, that'd be ace this hope so no.

Speaker 1: 44:58

Yeah, totally, as we were talking about earlier, bristol has such an incredible live music, sort of such an incredible city Like we got two universities. There's a lot of bands that come through and I've seen every type of band in Bristol and it's just heartbreaking to know these venues are all closed, struggling. It is really heartbreaking because it's sort of the heart of Bristol for me.

Speaker 2: 45:24

Yeah, yeah, it's a very creative city, isn't it? It's just a creative city. If you want to go somewhere as a creative, bristol is just like a hub for you to go to and it sort of oozes that aesthetic and it's just such a shame, such a shame. So, moving on to your album that's going to be coming up soon. So the follow up album is called City Nights, is that correct, city Nights? So you released a track, a single, from that, and that came out a couple of weeks ago.

Speaker 1: 45:53

Yes, city Drive, though, and that's done pretty well. It seems quite popular, but I'm looking forward to people hearing it in the context of the album because, again, I don't mean to sound pretentious, but it was written as one piece of music and so to have singles on it feels a bit alien. But it's important because that's the way, as artists, we sort of grown in this modern world with Spotify and everything. The next single coming is the Eagles Cover, which is the journey of the sorcerer, of their sorcerer even. But yeah, so those are two singles. That's the next one, journey of the Sorcerer, and then the album we're releasing in April. I'm really hoping that people enjoy it. I think it's a much improved piece of work from the last album and I hope people see that You're never too sure.

Speaker 2: 46:58

Yeah, I don't know about you, but I'm a harsh critic. Whenever I put something out, even when I've released it, I listen back to it and I'm like I just hear little bits and pieces I could change. So my creative process I have to set myself boundaries and time limits and think, right, I need to have this done by that point. And if it's have a good standard, is when is good, good enough? And just getting it out there because you could sit on music for years and not put it out because you don't think it's good enough? Or you're anxious that people are going to feedback and say you could have done this, this and this. I don't know, but in terms of the creative process, what do you do in terms of how do you know when something's?

Speaker 1: 47:44

finished. You're absolutely right, and that's the challenge, because there's the potential for it to never be finished. And I found this in my bands as well. I said earlier that we had a publishing deal. We recorded this album in this analogue studio with no digital equipment. It was really cool. We never even, it never even got released. Really, we just sort of just kept tweaking and tweaking into the point where the world had moved on from us.

Speaker 1: 48:21

Yeah, and so I definitely don't want to fall into that habit again. So I think, like you said, some songs I can write in an afternoon, some songs I'll spend two weeks on and then just give up on it. And then there's other songs that there are other songs where I'll suddenly think, oh, that riff in that song I didn't do anything with would work really well here, and then, maybe as a middle eight in this song, and then I start sort of doing it that way. So quite often I'll revisit something that I thought maybe wasn't quite right and then it works in something in a new, in a new piece of music. So again, there isn't a sort of a set way for that.

Speaker 1: 49:04

So, but I do, I do try to not be as critical as maybe I have in the past of of every piece of music I do Because, like we said, in theory you could say it's never finished and that would be my concern, because the way we're told to, because it feels like in the, in the new world where marketeers as much as we are musicians and we're all aware that content is king, right, and we're all, we've all got to be putting content out all the time, and I even just hate using that word, if I'm honest, I hate using that C word, but but content is king. So you, you are under this pressure to be releasing music every four weeks or so to try and keep in Spotify algorithms and algorithms.

Speaker 2: 49:57

That's all I ever hear. No matter what you go on Spotify, Facebook, YouTube, it's getting in that algorithm.

Speaker 1: 50:04

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 50:05

Yeah, it's so hard. You mentioned there about content and it's pushing out content. But it's a, there's a needle, and then you don't want that needle to move to the point whereby you just produce the content for the sake of it, just to stay in the algorithm, or it takes away from your creative process and it's finding that boundary between the two. So I find it, I find it quite difficult.

Speaker 1: 50:26

Absolutely. It is difficult, without doubt, and the marketing part, why I've discovered, if I discovered anything over over the. So I only started making this music last year. Yeah, I probably would say I've learned as much about marketing which I shouldn't really say because my job's in marketing my up my but I've learned as much about marketing as I have about music production, if I'm honest.

Speaker 2: 50:56

Yeah, I totally agree, I am. I moved on to either and started doing the the Profiter Producer course with Brian Hurd's, and I listened to a podcast quite regularly Brian Hurd and Chris Graham and it and it's all about the audio industry and the business side of it and it's massive. It's huge, huge, huge undertaking and there are so many facets to it and it's all about where you can spend your time wisely and it's and it's particularly now in this day, in the situation we're in at the moment with in the UK, for those not listening to you, we're in lockdown at this point, so the only really way we can reach out to people is via is digitally, and there are so much noise, so much noise that you have to burn breakthrough and it's been able to do. That is hard, but on a flip side of that, for example, your first album that you had the fact that you were able to sell it out on a first album is is fantastic. You hope that the second one would then do the same.

Speaker 1: 51:59

Well, I hope so and I think, and I think you're absolutely right. But I think if I could give any advice to anyone watching this now and I've seen and I've worked with a lot of other artists and I've helped people with their marketing is is don't try and take any shortcuts with it. Don't try. And there is no sort of I don't sort of like to him silver bullet. There's no silver bullet that says that you can't go and buy a placement in a, in a playlist that's going to make you famous. There isn't anything like that. It doesn't exist. You've got to. My advice to anyone watching now will be just do it slow and steadily. Yeah, keep releasing music you're proud of and market it in a genuine way, which is what I try and do. I try and talk to people as I would talk to anybody.

Speaker 2: 52:52

Yeah, I think it shows which is which is, and it's really good, and that would be my advice to anybody.

Speaker 1: 52:58

It's not going to happen overnight. It's got to be done slow and steady, and that's what I probably going back to my point earlier from the marketing perspective, that's probably what I learned the most of in 2020. Other than how to teach adjectives to my son, which I was doing last week, it's probably it's that. It's that organic growth and and just taking it like one step at a time, you're not going to, you're not going to release. Well, some people might, but very rarely are you going to release a song and it's just going to take off like it can happen, but it's not. It's not common, yeah. So don't go into it with that mindset. And, and I think, songs you're obviously producing good music people want to listen to. That's the key and I think you can get okay.

Speaker 2: 53:48

Yeah, yeah, I totally agree, I totally agree. I think slow and sort of like slow and steady wins the race. Yeah, yeah, and it's not to be put off, not to be put off if you, you release a song and it only gets a Mild bit of interest. It's just keep on our good music and and it will gradually build over time. One question you mentioned that about Spotify playlists. Now I find when I'm on the internet and this brother through Facebook etc and Instagram now I've started up put out music I get more and more Interaction. I get more and more messages from a Spotify playlist, playlisters or curators, inverted commas, what, what from a marketers for this be interest. Now, from a marketers perspective, what, what are your thoughts on those, the ones basically the pay to go on to a playlist. Do you think there's something that's viable? Is it worth doing?

Speaker 1: 54:38

Not, in my opinion. I I would, as we would say in Essex, I would personally give them a swerve, and there's a few reasons why I say that. So One of the places I get most of my streams from is my Spotify radio, and the way you get a Spotify artist radio is by having Spotify use an algorithm, like it, like everyone does, but they use an algorithm to see what other types of artists the people that listen to your songs like, and vice versa. So when you see an artist who's got I don't know, like 20,000 plays on the song with no radio, it leads to believe they've probably Maybe paid for playlist placement in a genre that's not quite right for their music and so on. So my, my advice would be to not go near those types of marketers because, like I said, there isn't any shortcuts and I think I believe it will hurt you in the long one. I don't know if you've heard, but the Spotify have apparently removed nearly a million songs at the start of this year. I have?

Speaker 2: 55:49

I Haven't. I hadn't heard that they've done that, but I had heard that artists and songs had been removed for that reason that you just mentioned. I hadn't realized they've done on a massive color at the beginning of the year, and there's there are rumors that that's not the last color They'll do really interesting.

Speaker 1: 56:05

So my advice would be so the reason they've done it because they sent out an email to people and it is that they believe that people have paid for plays. So so that would going back to my earlier point. That would be my advice. 100% is, if you are going to work with a marketing company that guarantee you playlist play placing, be a hundred percent sure it's organic and that it's real and that they're not box, because it will hurt you in the long run.

Speaker 2: 56:36

I did. I totally agree. I remember and this is probably about 10 years ago now, when I was in the band and we had a YouTube channel and we had an influx of views and there was a way. There was a, there was a strategic way that you could get an increase in views on YouTube, but they weren't. It wasn't anything. It's not like now.

Speaker 2: 56:56

Now I see it from a marketing perspective in terms of I can retarget and use that information that I get through Facebook, etc to then target as if I need to use them for whatever reason.

Speaker 2: 57:05

But way back when it was a numbers game and I think a lot of the time you can be as an artist, a creative in general, not just music you can be. You can focus too much on numbers. You're. You have to have so many followers, you have to have so many likes, you have to have so many plays and, like you said that, I think that can be detrimental in the long run. So if you're paying for those likes and you're paying for those plays and they're not organic, they're effectively pointless. They're not going to help you in any way, shape or form. In fact, with social media, if you do have those, if you're just. If you're putting an advert out and you're getting likes from all around the all around the globe and it's just random as like in your page, for the sake of it, when you do post something, it's not going to go out to the people that you want it's.

Speaker 1: 57:46

It's cut off your nose to spite your face and and exactly right, and and those people are also not going to be the ones that will buy your album when yeah, when when you're releasing an album and Then they're not going to be anywhere to be seen. So, yeah, you're exactly right.

Speaker 2: 58:06

Yeah, I've just realized. Now it's all almost an hour in, so we'll probably wrap it up in a bit. What I was going to next question I was going to ask you is key dates for your releases coming up. What are the key dates?

Speaker 1: 58:19

So I'm going to have to try and memorize this journey of the sorcerer, yeah, which is the Eagles cover, which I think I hope people like. It's an interesting take on on a classic song and it's also the theme song for hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy, so people might recognize the riff from there. But that is going to be March the 5th and my previous album, neon horizon, will be on Spotify to stream on February the 5th Brilliant and then so I got the album will release on April the 1st Amazing.

Speaker 2: 58:59

And in between then, if, if listeners wanted to listen to one song of yours, which song would you pick? If they first time listeners, which song would you direct them to?

Speaker 1: 59:11

I would probably say Kelly LeBocke, the song you've referenced earlier, that, or neon rain, which is currently on a On one of the first Spotify's editorial playlist. I did see that, yes.

Speaker 2: 59:20

Congratulations, that is this don't mean free to get on to a. There's quite difficult to get on to.

Speaker 1: 59:27

Yeah, yeah, and that's been interesting, that one because it's been a learning experience, because that's been on three times on editorial playlists Amazing, so they've ended and then suddenly they've been put on a different one is it's on. So I, like everyone, I, although I'm a year into this marketing world, I'm still learning myself. So yeah, but yeah, that's been a really interesting journey having that on one of these editorial playlists to see what that can do for you.

Speaker 2: 59:56

What did you? Did you find it helped in terms of if you're you're following your streams, did it? Did you notice?

Speaker 1: 1:00:03

Massively. Yeah, it's been. It's been added that song in itself, neon horizons, been added to over a thousand playlists. So, oh, wow. So so, without like this concept of going viral sort of what can happen, right, if you, if enough, new people come to your song and it's a good song, and then it, then it just grows exponentially. And that seems to be what's happening with neon horizon. And although Kelly the Brock hasn't been added to an editorial playlist, it's gone much the same way. Yeah, that's on nine hundred and something playlists and which is proof that, for me at least, that you, you can have a song perform well without the backing of Spotify's editorial playlists. That's really good back congratulations, I mean like, like I say, being a year in to to to the actual production side of things and releasing your own music.

Speaker 2: 1:00:52

It's a really good start and you can only imagine 2021 release of a new album. It's going to get even better.

Speaker 1: 1:01:02

Thank you, I hope so, and we've all got plenty of time right? Yeah, I find that we went out and did our family exercise earlier today. That's our sort of day at the time out the house for the day, so I find that I went out for a run. I started running again this year, so I went out yesterday and then that was it and I was inside for the rest of the day, and I was just Not much more you can do along the day when I can get on actually do things.

Speaker 2: 1:01:25

It's important though, isn't it? And anyone is watching as well.

Speaker 1: 1:01:33

It's just as important to look after your mental health as well as your physical health, and it's difficult time for everyone. I've got a friend in Portugal called Synth Bacon. He's saying that they're the important call. They're just going into lockdown now. I've got friends in France who are in a curfew. So certainly around Europe it's a difficult time for everyone. So, yeah, sort of look out for each other. Yeah, totally.

Speaker 2: 1:02:01

You'd like to think, if you look back in a year's time, there would be marked improvement. I love that name, though, synth Bacon. That's amazing. I'm going to go check out Portugal. Right, yeah, it's from Portugal. Ah, I've got a totally good alert. Has he got songs released as well, or she?

Speaker 1: 1:02:21

No, I don't think so. But a big vinyl, a synth way, vinyl collector.

Speaker 2: 1:02:26

Oh, okay, okay, Check them out, though that's such a good name. What I'll do is, for those of you who listen, I will drop links in the description for your Instagram. I don't know if you want to shout out now your Instagram handle. If I remember it, that's right.

Speaker 1: 1:02:44

Yeah, Zach Vortex Music. Those three words are in it.

Speaker 2: 1:02:52

Zach Vortex Music. I'll put the handle in the description below and, if you want to check mine out as well as appmark Matthews producer as well. But yeah, man, thanks for your time today. It's actually been able to talk to you. We've been chatting for a while via Instagram and email, so, yeah, it's really, really cool. That's great, good fun. Yeah, good luck with the new release as well. I'll keep eyes out for it and I'll repost it and whatnot and then maybe catch up I don't know let a part of the year and have another chat about how it's gone. Yeah, it's great. Maybe have a beer if who knows?

Speaker 2: 1:03:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, as soon as I'm allowed out of the county of Devon, which is beautiful, my add. It is a beautiful county, but I long to leave and go elsewhere, my favourite county. But yeah, yeah, all right, cool, and that's brilliant. Thanks for your time today and I'll speak to you soon.