Music Production Podcast for DIY Music Producers and Artists | Inside The Mix
If you're searching for answers on topics such as: what is mixing in music, how I can learn to mix music, how to start music production, how can I get better at music production, what is music production, or maybe how to get into the music industry or even just how to release music. Either way, you’re my kind of person and there's something in this podcast for you!
I'm Marc Matthews and I host the Inside The Mix Podcast. It's the ultimate serial podcast for music production and mixing enthusiasts. Say goodbye to generic interviews and tutorials, because I'm taking things to the next level. Join me as I feature listeners in round table music critiques and offer exclusive one-to-one coaching sessions to kickstart your music production and mixing journey. Get ready for cutting-edge music production tutorials and insightful interviews with Grammy Award-winning audio professionals like Dom Morley (Adele) and Mike Exeter (Black Sabbath). If you're passionate about music production and mixing like me, Inside The Mix is the podcast you can't afford to miss!
Start with this audience-favourite episode: #175: What's the Secret to Mixing Without Muddiness? Achieving Clarity and Dynamics in a Mix
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Music Production Podcast for DIY Music Producers and Artists | Inside The Mix
#111: Exploring Music Production Success with Hyperbits: Education, Marketing, and Collaboration
Ever wondered how music producers define success or if you can excel in music production without a degree? Curious about the secrets to captivating an audience with your tunes? Dive into EP 111 of the Inside The Mix podcast where we delve deep into the world of music production and get insights from seasoned music producers.
Experience a deep dive into music production with the inspiring Serik Slobodskoy, AKA Hyperbits. Hyperbits shares invaluable insights into the building blocks of a successful music career, reflecting on the importance of formal music education and developing a unique sound style. He also champions the power of focusing on audience engagement over numerical metrics when gauging the success of a music release.
The conversation turns fascinating as Hyperbits unveils the secret weapon behind his success: email marketing. With a compelling narrative, he recounts how a simple email listing of music producers catapulted his music and business. The power of education, the crucial role of a robust music portfolio, and the game-changing effect of a well-thought-out marketing plan are among the other golden nuggets embedded in this riveting conversation.
Finally, we explore the magic of collaboration and the innovative use of advanced tools and algorithms in music production. Hyperbits illuminates how the free resources on his website, hyperbits.com, enable aspiring producers to evolve and create. We wrap up our enlightening exchange by reflecting on Hyperbits' early success with his rooftop boys duo, underlining the immense value of creative focus. Join us to explore music production's intricacies, and let's reshape your understanding of success in the industry.
Click here, to follow Hyperbits: https://hyperbits.com/
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Hey Inside Mix podcast fans. I'm Shardz from Italy and today my song the World of Lives out on all stream platforms. You're now listening to the Inside Mix podcast and it's your host, mark Matthews so stay tuned.
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to the Inside the Mix podcast. I'm Mark Matthews, your host, musician, producer and mix and mastering engineer. You've come to the right place if you want to know more about your favourite synth music artists, music engineering and production, songwriting and the music industry. I've been writing, producing, mixing and mastering music for over 15 years and I want to share what I've learnt with you. Hello, folks, and welcome back to the Inside the Mix podcast.
Speaker 2:This is the first interview episode post summer break, so I'm very excited with this one in particular, and I'm joined by Cerex Solobodskoy, who is also known as Hyperbits, a producer who's worked with some industry giants, which I'll name in the episode itself, and also Hyperbits is a music production educational organisation as well and has helped many artists. So we've got 55 plus million streams as an artist, over 100,000 plus monthly listeners on Spotify and more figures in that sort of vein, and we're going to discuss things to do with music production. We're looking at formal music education. Is it necessary for being a successful producer? How important is it to have a unique sound or style in today's music industry? How do you measure the success of a music release? Is it about the numbers or is it about the audience's reaction and engagement?
Speaker 2:And I also delve in and ask Cerex the question is there a piece of advice you received in your career that has stuck with you? And he actually gives three amazing pieces of advice that you're going to want to know folks. So that's enough of me wittering on, let's dive into this episode. Our guest today, cerex Slavodski. I think we had a discussion off air about pronouncing that correctly and I think I pretty much just butchered that.
Speaker 1:Did I get it right?
Speaker 2:That was good, well done. Okay, I'll roll with that. So a bit about Celeric here. Also known as Hyperbits and we're going to dive into that a bit later on but inspired by San Diego made in New York City, hyperbits is a feels connoisseur. I love that, whether he's producing for industry giants like Beyonce, nick Jonas and Tuvalo, or getting supported by the world's biggest artists like above and beyond the chain smokers and Griffin. His infectious sun set drenched melodic house has been streamed 55 plus million times Amazing stuff. Hi Cerex, aka Hyperbits, how are you? And thank you for joining me today.
Speaker 1:I'm doing great man. Thanks so much for having me. I think I've mentioned to you already, but a little tire because it's a Sunday morning for me over here. But I'm ready to get into all things music production and pumped to be here, man.
Speaker 2:Ace man, I've been looking forward to this. I know we started chatting a number of months ago and we booked this, but it has soon come around and this is the first interview post my summer break, so hopefully we can dust the cobwebs. I know you said off air, it's been a while since you've done an interview yourself, so we're both in the same boat. But it's going to be good. I'm really looking forward to this one and I think the audience are going to get a lot of it as well. It's going to be fantastic.
Speaker 2:So I think it would be good if we just dive in to what I read in your bio. So I'm just going to read this question. I've got here so your bio sites that your biggest accomplishment, from my teeth back in, is founding one of the most popular and well regarded music production schools. It's amazing. I'll put a link to the website. I know we're getting ahead of ourselves a bit here in the episode description, but the audience do go check this out. Obviously, listen to the episode first. The music production schools in the world teaching thousands of students the art of music production in the process. So I think a really nice question here is what is your memory of your journey and maybe like one or a couple of the biggest struggles along the way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely so. First thing I'll say is that I had literally all of the struggles. You know I never like. The main caveat here is that I never had some sort of like an official five year business plan or something like.
Speaker 1:Creating a music production school was very much a result of just, you know, doing my thing and it just kind of like formed into something very honestly, very naturally. Like back when I was an artist, I was living in New York City and I got hooked up with like some of the ANRs that worked at like Universal and Sony, so I got a lot of remix opportunities and I saw, like you know, a decent amount of success on the artist side of things. And while I was doing that, I literally read like in some book by Ramit Sadie I believe he's like a personal finance guy and he said something along the lines of like something like you should always be be collecting an email list and you can always figure out how to monetize it later, and I honestly didn't even know what that actually meant. But I was like, okay, it seems like it's important down the road, for some reason, to collect email addresses, so I just started giving away sample packs and freebies and things like that. Some of them went a little viral on Reddit and yeah like, over maybe a few years or so, I realized that I had about 11, 12,000 email addresses and I wasn't really using them. I was just like maybe I'd shoot an email out every like three to four months or something.
Speaker 1:And yeah like, while I was doing all of that, I had been giving one-on-one lessons to basically pay the bills right In Brooklyn. I lived in New York City it's expensive rent, right, and yeah, I was just kind of like, alright, like I gotta supplement the bills a little bit with because I was doing a lot of like engineering work, a little bit of touring, a little bit of production work. But one-on-one lessons were the most consistent just like thing that I could rely on. And, you know, you get to a point where you're like, damn, my entire life now is all of a sudden teaching one-on-one. And I was kind of like you know what? Let me just see what happens if I send out an email to this list and say that I'm putting together a class, right, just some sort of a course, and I was like I'm gonna charge a thousand dollars for it, it's gonna be a four-week course, I hadn't even actually built it yet.
Speaker 1:It was just an outline of what I wanted to cover. It's mostly the stuff that I had, you know, kind of figured out in my career and been repeating over and over in these one-on-one sessions. And so I sent one email and like boom, 12, 13 people signed up off of that first email and I was like holy shit, like how many one-on-one lessons would I needed to have given to have made that much right? And so right away I kind of knew that I had something special and I knew that I had kind of like a I guess like a, without sounding braggy, I had a good skill set there, both in music production and in communication. I felt like I could really communicate those ideas well.
Speaker 1:And you know, the second time that I ran it, 15 people signed up.
Speaker 1:Then I ran it a third time and something like 50 plus people signed up after I had raised prices and I was like, okay, this is going to be the thing that I'm, I'm really doubling down on and pursuing and eventually hired a team and got a lot of help and developers and all sorts of things.
Speaker 1:And yeah, like I, you know I'm definitely passionate about entrepreneurship, but I was very much an artist first, just trying to like put the pieces together and figure out fun, creative ways to make a living, and so I feel really honestly super lucky and super blessed to have kind of stumbled upon something that you know lights me up, that I'm passionate about and you know has kind of gone on to really be like a pretty big online school in the electronic music production world. There's you know, there's not that many other schools that are doing kind of exactly what we're doing. So I'm really again just sort of feeling, feeling, feeling a lot of the gratitude for, for what we've created and gratitude for my team for, for helping and doing all the things that we've kind of done over the past like six, seven years.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. I really love the part that, the part there where you're like you sort of fall into it, haven't you? You didn't have that business plan. You kind of like, as you say, you're doing all these different things in the music industry, you're doing these, this live sound, and you're a musician, you're an artist as well, and you you're sort of teaching to pay the bills as such, and then you've sort of fallen into this, this world of of teaching and having this online school and the email list, what you mentioned there. Now we once again we had a discussion off there about sort of entrepreneurship and various people Tim Ferriss, for example, and the.
Speaker 2:I think I've come to realize that in conversations like at the, the importance of an email list is often overlooked by some people and artists and musicians as well. Everyone seems to be at social media is huge. Obviously you've got that reach in that audience, but actually having an email list that you know cannot be Well, I suppose it could be taken away from you, but, like you're not at the mercy of TikTok, instagram, which could just shut down your account at any point, you've got that mailing list, would you say then this is a slight tangent here that having a mailing list is just as important for, like, an artist or a producer and a musician as having social media, and it's a bit different to like actually running a business like you're doing here, but would you say it's just as important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, it depends on what your goals are as a you know business owner or music producer or artist, right, each one of these mediums holds very different purposes in my mind, and I think something like you know, social media is really really good for engagement and social proof, kind of building a community, things like that. But an email list is a really amazing tool to basically have an army of people kind of backing you in a community. That's very like like conversational and direct. So like when I the first time I got support from above and beyond for example, they played one of my tracks on a group therapy radio and then they have this thing where, like, you basically vote on your favorite track from the podcast. And I was able to send an email to my list at the time of I don't know 10, 12,000 music producers and be like hey guys, I'm going to give away, like you know, a free collection of kick drums that I made and all I want you to do is just go vote for my track. And so they ended up playing it, I think, three times on the podcast because I had that like community of producers to support it. And then they started playing it on tour and it got, you know, there's like a this cool video of them playing it in like Buenos Aires in front of, like you know, 30,000 people or something, and I feel like that, that type of engagement and sort of like social support that it got, played a big role in them liking it and supporting it.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I mean to kind of get back to your question, though, like social media, that is that is sort of the holy grail this day and age, I think, for for success, and I think it also boils down to to what it is that you love, because for me, like sitting down and writing an email like long form where I can get my thoughts out, that's just a medium that I enjoy creating, right. I enjoy kind of that long form typing things out, long blog posts, right, like long emails, things like that where I can convey a story. I don't love creating social content. It's just not the thing that like lights me up. If I do it once in a while, I can get into it for for short bursts, but if my life every day was just creating content, it's just not the life that I want to live and I think, at the end of the day, success really is more boils down to just doing something that you're excited about.
Speaker 1:So I think that social media is important and something that pretty much any artist or business owner at least needs to engage in, but it doesn't need to be the thing that drives your business, because things like email and you know there's there's tons of different mediums, right, and I think that's all I mean. They can be way more, if I mean they could be a lot more impactful on your business, specifically because you know and like like you mentioned they, you own your email address, right, or you own your email list, rather, whereas, like social media, like I grew, you know a big Facebook following and like then Facebook's algorithm changed and like nobody cared about Facebook anymore and I couldn't even I couldn't even communicate to those followers without paying for it. And then the same thing sort of happened with SoundCloud. I like built this big SoundCloud following and then everybody moved away to Spotify, and so you're kind of like following these.
Speaker 1:You know the, the, the, the, like the stick or the car I don't know what the expression is, but you're basically chasing something over and over, whereas the email address or the sorry, the email list just keeps kind of staying there, right it's. It's something that isn't going to get taken away from me, and anybody can unsubscribe if they want to, at any time, of course, but it's something that I can just rely on as a you know, a source for for communication and and for for for business.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's a really good way of putting it and you're right in that like, yeah, I think each sort of platform has its own purpose and you, like I say you do need to have that social media presence, you know, and it's it's how you use it. But I really I'm with you with the idea of, like, leveraging the power of a mailing list. I think it's an incredibly powerful thing to do and I really like what you said there about success is being. It comes with excitement, about being excited and doing something. So it kind of segues ish nicely on to like the next question, which is about sort of music education. I've asked this a few times on the podcast when I've had audio engineers on and producers like yourself. So, with regards to that success and excitement and being excited about doing something, do you think a formal education in sort of music production or songwriting is necessary for being a successful music producer, or is it a case of just being passionate, being excited about it and just getting out there and doing it?
Speaker 1:It's a really interesting question because, technically speaking, right like nothing is inherently necessary, right, it's not like you know, like coding boot camps exist, but they aren't necessary for a developer right to learn a coding language. Plenty of successful coders out there who never took a boot camp or never took a course Could it have, you know, maybe fast-tracked their progress or provided some sort of a foundation for them? Like, very possibly. I mean, at the end of the day, somebody like Tiger Woods, who is one of the best golfers ever, if you know, if not the best, he still has a swing coach, right. So, having some sort of education or some sort of like person in your corner or you know, like it can help, but it's not, it's definitely not necessary. And what I find interesting is that there is this kind of almost like I don't know what the word is Like I feel like very much on YouTube and Reddit, there is this like community of people that very, are very turned off by education. It's almost like a stamp of honor or something or a badge of honor to say like, oh, I'm self-taught, and to me that is basically a little bit of like, it's like an ego piece where, for me personally, once I put aside my ego and trying to be self-taught.
Speaker 1:When I was coming up in music production, I actually did sign up for a music production school.
Speaker 1:That school is now no longer like a thing, it was DubSpot in New York City, you know, and I spent thousands and thousands of dollars on this course and it saved my kind of like, I think career in music production because it gave me this like framework to initially just like no, okay, here's exactly how to anchor my kick drum at the right DB, to get the right sounds right, to get the right gain structure, to learn how to create a professional sounding track and how to use references to basically get my sound to be as good as theirs At least.
Speaker 1:Like I could play my song and I could play my favorite artist song and it wouldn't sound any different. That was priceless. And then, once I had that skill set, so many people came to me to, you know, learn one-on-one to engineer tracks for them. It even led to like my connections with some of the major labels right Like once they started talking to me and I met up with them and had like a drink with them and they'd be like oh like we have this other artist that, like, listen to this song, like what would you do differently?
Speaker 1:And I had the framework and, like, the understanding now of how to attack it and I can actually communicate it confidently. And they were, you know, they were like, oh shit, this guy kind of knows what he's talking about and that really opened the door for me. So, sure, like you know, formal education it's definitely not necessary, but if it's something you're passionate about and it's something that you want to pursue, you know, in your life and I'm a firm believer that life is short and you know it's really important to me because I've had a soul-sucking job and I've had those careers where, you know, I didn't really want to wake up in the morning and there's nothing more kind of sad or depressing to me than to like not be passionate. And I just feel like, if you love something, why wouldn't you be open to education and developing that love for learning? Because, like, at the end of the day, that's what music production kind of is. It's this endless opportunity to find ways to grow and to change your sound.
Speaker 1:And like, even now, right, I've been doing this for I don't know, 12, 13 years or something. I still, every single time I work with somebody, I'm amazed at how much I'm learning, you know, and I think that that's such a like positive attitude to maintain because it keeps you kind of from becoming like that jaded, bitter dude who's just been doing something forever and is just like stuck in their ways, right, like nobody wants to be that. I want to maintain that child-like wonder and awe about the things that I love, and I feel like education is a big piece of that. So, again, it's not required, but those are the types of people that I catch myself like surrounding myself with. You know, somebody who loves education and loves learning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I totally agree with you there and I've followed a similar pathway to what you mentioned there about how you kind of almost like expedite the pros expedite or that might be the wrong word no, I think that's right.
Speaker 2:I think it might be expedite, I think it might be trying to be fancy here, but yeah, because I did something similar, because I'm a guitarist and I was self-taught for a while and it's kind of like you say. It's almost like some individuals might think, like you've got to be in the trenches, you've got to earn your stripes, like learning yourself and do it yourself, but like if somebody it's kind of like when you think of studios as well, like the studio intern and the studio runner jobs, it's like people do that so they can learn, like you've done there you mentioned about the kick drum and like knowing how to correctly process and engage, stage the kick drum. It's like rather than sort of struggle around and muddle around to try and do it. If there's someone else out there who can coach you to do it the right way and quicker for you to learn it, then why not do it? And I did that with guitar.
Speaker 2:Playing guitar, I went into a studio, realized my guitar technique was shit and it just. And then I had to go and have lessons and it made me realize actually, having had lessons now I've advanced so much quicker and I wish I'd done it sooner. And then I went and also I'd got a master's degree in music, engineering and production as well, which kind of set the foundation for everything I know. Now the only thing I would say off the back of that is, I think, having a this could be another question actually to add to this about a portfolio of work. So if you are like a producer and you wanna start working on other people's music, I kind of always say to people it's great to have that education, that academic background, but I think having an actual portfolio of work that you're developing at the same time can be just as important. What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1:I think, like neither one with like without both, it's hard. Like confidence can only get you so far right. Like, at the end of the day, you have to have some sort of work that you've created that can kind of hold its weight and communicate that confidence that you have. And when I go back to thinking about when I was living in New York and I got connected with those guys from some of the major labels, like a lot of it stemmed from a few remixes that I had done and they heard it played like at a festival, that is, they were literally like who made this remix? I wanna talk to this guy and like that was enough to you know, open up that conversation. So I feel like, yeah, like the education piece, this is kind of like the I'm a big Reddit guy.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna keep referencing Reddit here but like you know, there are people like in entrepreneurship, right, who have been thinking about doing an idea for years and years and years, right, and like they'll have these posts and they're asking for validation, right, and they're like, okay, I've been thinking about doing this for five years, here's my plan, here's the things that I wanna do. It's like if all you ever do is study entrepreneurship and don't just take action, then you are really shooting yourself in the foot, because the only way to apply that stuff that you're learning is to actually go use it in the real world. So you know a lot of I think a lot of people this day and age kind of shit on the idea of, like, doing work for free, you know. But I think when you're just starting out and just learning a skill, like, there's nothing wrong with going out there and being like to a band that you like and being like, hey, you know, I'm an upcoming music producer who wants to get their foot in the door, or engineer, and I want to work on your stuff. You don't even have to pay me. I just wanna be able to use this, as you know, an example of work in the future, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 1:I did that initially. I know a lot of people that have done that. It's very it's akin to like an internship, right. It's like, yeah, you sometimes work for free at the expense of like lack of monetary compensation, so that you can then showcase that work or experience elsewhere, and I think there's absolutely nothing you know nothing wrong with that, and I think it's actually like a really good idea to kind of get your foot in the industry in the door and just have something to showcase.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm glad you said that and I totally agree. I think having a portfolio and it is really important and it's something I wish I'd have done more of when I was studying, because I was probably like what you've said there. I think it was like paralysis by analysis and that I was trying to read everything and trying to understand everything. I need to know everything about sound synthesis and sampling, whereas I probably could have dedicated more time to actually just thinking. You know what? I wanna go record this band. This is back when I was doing recording and or maybe I just wanna produce or wanna mix this particular bit of music here.
Speaker 2:So it's quite easy, like you say there, to get stuck in that trap of just and it's much like with entrepreneurship as well of like just trying to absorb so much information but not actually taking any action. And once again, this kind of segues on nicely to the next question. So you mentioned there about sort of possibly doing free work to develop this portfolio. So at the same time, so you're doing that, you're in the trenches, you're doing that sort of that work there to try and up skill and find your place in whatever niche you're in. How important is it to have a unique sound or style in sort of like today's modern sort of music industry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a good question because, like, similar to what we were just touching on, like something like a unique sound, I don't think is something that you sit down and intentionally like study and try to like create. It's actually a natural result of doing a lot of work. You know, doing a huge volume of work, like if you're an engineer, right Like, even as an engineer, maybe you have a specific sound or a style, right Like certain producers are maybe known for, like oh, they're really tight percussion right, or this like super compressed vocal sound or something right that like communicates the things that you love or the taste that works for you. But you only determine those things by doing this crazy amount of work, right Like every single project you work on as a producer, as a songwriter, artist, engineer they're all just opportunities to like hone in what it is about music that gets you lit up and gets you excited.
Speaker 1:So you know, like, like for me, I guess one story that I could tell about sort of this kind of side of things, like Hyperbits is the name of the school that I run, but it's also the name of the artist project that I started and I've always kind of been very into like melodic house and progressive house and trance, things like that, and that was kind of the sound that I was really into and I'd been doing that for years. And as I was doing this, you know, I ended up working with another production partner and we started a project called the rooftop boys and it was really kind of like a little bit of like a you know, a meld between what it is that I was creating and some of the stuff that he was passionate about. But we started getting all these remixes done in the more like pop house space. And do you remember Hype Machine back in the day? It rings a bell.
Speaker 2:It rings a bell.
Speaker 1:It was an algorithmic like collection of all the songs that were being uploaded to blogs, kind of like on the internet, and then people on HypeM would just there'd be tons of users and they would literally heart the music that they liked, and it would basically create this like real time. You know, like real time chart of what's happening in the world in music and you know, if you get up to the top of the charts on Hype Machine, it was linked right to your sound cloud so you can get like hundreds and hundreds of thousands of streams, sometimes millions of streams, in a matter of days by being at the top of the charts. And so when I started this, this duo, this rooftop, this rooftop boys duo, we had a span of like something crazy like six or seven consecutive remixes get to number one in the world on Hype Machine. And it's funny because, like you know, I didn't see any sort of success like that with hyperbits, which I had been doing for years, whereas like rooftop boys just kind of like started and it was just a. It was just a result of of just making all this music and kind of honing in on something that was very like specific. But I didn't intentionally be like hey, I'm going to create pop music or something. I was just like, oh, like, I've been playing around with this bass, bass sound that ended up being like the signature sound to to the rooftop boys, excuse me.
Speaker 1:And yeah, I think, like you know it, like I said, it wasn't an intentional thing. It was just something that naturally came out of doing a lot of work, and then whether or not it's successful isn't even up to me. It's just something that, like, the audience determines, right. And yeah, I think, like you know, people sit down to intentionally create these unique styles. I think there's something to be said about, like you know, really honing in on what it is that you want to create and being very intentional about it.
Speaker 1:But, you know, if you're forcing your way into the music, sometimes I feel like the audience can hear that and it doesn't come across as natural. You know, like it should be something that, just like you, innately wants to create. And if you had no rules no, no boundaries like what would you? What would you like? What type of music would you would you be creating? Like it's very interesting to me, like once you put labels out of the mix or the potential to release out of it what comes out of you. Naturally and sometimes, yeah, maybe we go a little overboard or there's just too much like chaos or something. Right, you sometimes have to reign in the stuff that you're creating, but I feel like every producer should go through a period where they're just having fun and just creating whatever it is they want and assess from there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it kind of echoes almost what you said earlier about how you started hyperbits, in that you kind of just fall into it. There wasn't that sort of plan, much like you said with the rooftop boys is you start, started doing this music and then you sort of just sort of fell into it. And I think that's the best way to do because I think, with regards to influences, you kind of are the sum of your parts. And it's really interesting what you mentioned there about how if you kind of I don't know if the phrase translates, but if you try and shoehorn your way into a genre or niche and try and do something that's not inherently you, then the audience can hear that.
Speaker 2:And I have witnessed that myself in that I have sort of tried and dabbled in different genres and when I've been creating that particular music it's good to a standard. But when I listen back to I'm like actually it doesn't really represent what my musical tastes are and what I like to do, and now sort of hone that in more given over time. So I really like that idea and I think it's quite easy maybe to get preoccupied with what the current popular sound is and think actually I need to move in that direction if I want to be successful, whereas, like you mentioned now, I think it can sound a bit inauthentic if it's not inherently you.
Speaker 1:I mean, some people might be able to get away and do really well just being able to create any sort of music in any genre which hats off to them, but yeah, yeah, and there's also, you know there is something to be said about like borrowing trends or borrowing things that are working for other artists and like incorporating it into your sound, and I think that's something that everybody should, should try like in electronic music, I think, as a result of like Fred again and a bunch of other artists, there's this like kind of stutter house craze that's been going on and like there's nothing wrong with kind of taking that element and throwing it into one of your songs and like seeing how it changes your production or, you know, taking a, taking a trend and just like giving it its moment in your music.
Speaker 1:It should still sound like you if you're able to incorporate it kind of correctly and just like have fun with it in a way that lights you up. But yeah, it's like I think at the end of the day, you want to try to avoid, yeah, just changing your entire sound every time that the new sound comes about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Fred against Wildman. I've watched some videos of him like triggering beats and I'm just like I'm not even. I'm not even going to attempt this. It's not my fault, I'm a guitarist man, I'm going to stick with that Maybe. I should have more of a growth mindset, but I've just seen him doing it. He was with Zane low and I was just like that is insane what you are doing right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I actually saw him live exactly about one year ago that in San Diego there's a festival called called crossed that happens right around now.
Speaker 1:It's actually happening this weekend, which I don't have tickets yet, but I might go get one on like offer up or Craigslist or something right after this interview and go.
Speaker 1:But basically I saw it Fred again last year and dude, it was just like sometimes, you know, like there's this feeling of like there's one artist that's just doing something so original and so cool and there's this collective energy in the crowd and you're catching them right at that like kind of peak, right when they're just blowing up but haven't like fully blown up yet.
Speaker 1:That was Fred again and man, like the way that he just takes like all these samples of like spoken word and just it's some of the most emotional music. I mean people are balling their eyes out all around you and then you're partying the next song and you're surrounded by friends, like it was one of those really special moments that kind of made me think about the rewards of having such an original, unique sound and just how cool that is that he gets to share that with the world and also just how lucky, you know, I am to be a part of the music world. Like I really do believe in, like the power of music and how it can really help you through some of your darkest moments, and how much of a tool it is to like engage and connect with your friends. Like I remember just feeling very, very lucky, you know, and very like in love with music during that show.
Speaker 2:Yeah, amazing. It sounds like one of those like I was there moments, isn't it Like when you watch a particular band you're like, yeah, I was there just before I knew them, just before they got to that particular stage.
Speaker 2:But I love what you said there about music and it's totally right. I know, when I get together with my friends but it's always a case of one of the first conversations is like what is the soundtrack tonight's barbecue going to be? Like what vinyl we're going to stick on with having a few beers before we go out? You know it's that's why music is amazing. And totally what you said there, yeah, so on the sort of just arcing back a little bit there about like for the rooftop boys, for example. So my next question would be sort of how do you measure the success of a music release? Is it more about because this is quite important actually, before I ask the next part, because I'm part of a number of sort of chat groups and you see conversations a lot of the time centralize around metrics and people getting hung up on metrics and rather than the music itself, which is kind of interesting is it more important about the numbers of the audience's reaction? Is it more important sorry about the numbers or the audience's reaction and engagement?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, there are so many different ways to measure success and and I think total streams is probably the most like Vayne metric of success. But it is a real thing, right, it is something that, like you know, if I hear a song that I like, I'll go on Spotify and be like how many streams does this have? I want to gauge its like general popularity, like, is this an unknown, is this a someone who's blowing up? But I think, if you kind of piggyback your idea of success to something as like straightforward as total numbers of streams, like it's a very empty way, I think, to live life as an artist and I think it's important to maybe have some sort of a goal, like a realistic goal, to work towards and to, you know, have some sort of a marketing plan in place to try to achieve that. Because if you just hope for millions of streams, it's not necessarily going to happen unless you hit some, like you know, benchmarks before that maybe set 10,000 as the first goal, 50,000 as the second, 100,000, you know, so on and so forth, because you'll learn about what it takes to get those types of streams and and Spotify, spotify's algorithm isn't going to like Just deliver you millions and millions of streams off of your first release. It might start to do that if it catches on the bandwagon, right, that your people are favoriting your music, people are playlisting it. You know, sometimes it gets supported on radio shows and Spotify is like algorithmic streams start going up. But but yeah, it's. It's to me it's more about like looking at the whole thing as like a holistic package and like you know something, like our labels excited about this, our Fans messaging you. Is there Good engagement on your social posts? Like what kind of live reaction does it have? Like I think that All of these things, like as a whole can can paint a much better picture of like you know what kind of metrics or what kind of numbers we're looking for it.
Speaker 1:Because, because, at the end of the day, like the thing that excites me most about music production is, literally before any of the release, stuff Like that is cool and it's really validating to hear your music played and to have people connect with it. Like I'm not saying that that isn't, but to me, the coolest moment is, like you know the happy accidents, right, when you're like you're just like, oh, what did I just do? Like that was a mistake and it was so cool, right. Or or just sitting, you know, in your own studio and listening to something and like being like you know what, like I am really proud of this and this is something that I just Created out of thin air. Or the best is collaboration, right, when you're, when you're with another producer and you just you're like you know what.
Speaker 1:You have a moment, almost like in basketball, you set like a flawless pick and roll with a stranger and you have this like Moment where you're like your home ease and you know each other. You don't know each other, but now you know each other with like with collaborators and music. Sometimes I look over at somebody. I'll just be like how the fuck did you just do that man? Like that was so cool and you have this connection. That's what I live for and, honestly, the, the metrics and stuff outside of that, it's it's important, but it's it just doesn't. It's not what lights me up and I envisioned like a really empty life if all I cared about was Total streams. You know, it just seems really sad, honestly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I really like what you said, that not not the fighter part of the song, not the fighter part, because that would be sad, but the bit before. But a bit before about the Sort of like the lead up to the release, which, which is great, and I find that myself, I find the most enjoyable part is probably before I've actually released the music. And there are two aspects I've come to realize that I really like, and that's I'm working on an EP at the moment and the audience listening will know this because I've been referencing it like crazy on the on the podcast. I use it in the tutorials and stuff and Is when I like I've got three songs in the bag and then I don't listen to them and I come back to them two or three weeks later and I listen to it. I'm like shit, these are actually like quite.
Speaker 2:I really like these, these tunes, and for me that's like it might be a bit so like self gratifying, but I really like that. And the other one for me is because I always outsource the vocals. Don't sing wish I could but when I have like an instrumental and then I have a vocalist Put vocal down on it and return it and then listen into it and have that song come to life. That's one of the most like. That part of the musical process for me is one of the best parts. It's like when I have a vocal part on a track and I'm like, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's cuz you're like, you're sort of able to Finally listen to your music. And as a commercial listener, you know, like, when you're in the midst of creating everything and you're focused on, like you know, this little automation here, the the bass relationship to the kick or whatever it is that you're working on, like you are listening as like a Scientist you're looking at it and being like, okay, I got to make sure that this is all working, that it sounds good, right, and you're too far in it. You're listening to it closer than any audience, like potential fan, would ever listen to it, right. And then when you take that break a couple weeks Sometimes, if you can take like even longer off like that is the most rewarding listen, because you're like, oh, like I'm not Super, like you know, locked up on all the little decisions that I was making I can just sort of like enjoy it, and even then you're still remembering some things that you did and didn't do.
Speaker 1:So it's like you'll never get that fully commercial listen from someone who just hears a song for the first time. But uh, I'm with you, man. I love taking like good long breaks and coming back to it with fresh years. That's like one of my favorite yeah, favorite kind of points of the process with music.
Speaker 2:Yeah it. I was having a conversation just before this with with another producer and I said exactly that about how I'm now as part of my workflow. I never used to do it. I never used to leave such time in between. It would be like I'd finish the mix master and then it would release. But now I'm leaving that gap in between and it does make a difference and it also it's much like what you said there about how being the scientist and you can like.
Speaker 2:It goes back to what I said earlier about like Paralysis paralysis by analysis and like binge editing. I've forgotten about all those little tweaks, automation tweaks I wanted to do on the vocal or on the kick or on the snare or that reverb send. I wanted to actually automate that, that there on that particular vocal phrase. I've forgotten all about that and now I can listen to it as I would want to listen to it, and I think that's it's a fantastic bit of advice, I think, for the audience listening and it's it's only something I really, really thought about today and kind of it's great that it's also Echoed by two people that I've spoken to today, which is amazing. So, on the on the topic of advice, it sort of leads on to the final question here Is there a piece of advice you received in your career that has stuck with you, and can you share it with our audience?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've got. I've got at least three that I like to kind of come back to and share. The first one is not something that anyone necessarily told me. It's something that I've noticed and witnessed amongst the People that I've worked with that I respect the most, and it's just that writers block is a myth. It is not something that is even real. Like, like professionals in this industry that you know have been in this a while, do not have the luxury to wait around for inspiration and they actually just rely on a very like particular set of tools and strategies and workflows and things to to overcome the problems that they face.
Speaker 1:And I think that there's this sort of misconception that artists, you know, and this, this is a result probably of just like, how we consume music for years and years, artists would like disappear for you know 12 months or 24 months or something, and come out with an album and you just be like holy, like how did they just come out with this? Right, it's like you thought that they would just like go find inspiration and come back and it's like no, like they actually woke up every single day and kept honing in on what it is that they want to create and they did it day in and day out for years, right, and what you're hearing is a result of that like of showing up to do the work, and so, yeah, it's like if you kind of sit down and you're not inspired, like that's okay, just get started anyway. Just go through it and like know that there is a bunch of strategies that you can rely on to help get that inspiration. I mean, there's a lot of also just incredible tools out there this day and age to kind of like create ideas very fast. But even just the music that you listen to and love, that is inspiration in and of itself. And it's very hard for me to just like stop working, like literally press stop and go reference like an artist that I love, like it's just it's hard piece of the workflow, but every time I do that I'm like, oh, I got plenty of ideas now you know. So that's one, and the second thing that I'll say is that quantity actually creates quality. Again, I think that like there's this idea that you know you can spend like an entire year on like one song or something and that'll make that song that much better, and it's actually kind of quite the opposite, like the like showing up and creating a song every day, or maybe a song every week or something gets you into like the rhythm of flexing that creative muscle and like solving the problems that keep coming up. If you're weak on the sound design portion or the sound or the songwriting portion of creation, like you will start to have to address that by creating a volume of work, and for any.
Speaker 1:This isn't a video that I created, but anybody that's listening to this. I would Google. Volume of work by Ira Glass. It's just a great like two minute little video about kind of the thing that every successful person knows but never says, and it's just all about how he's like. He's kind of like I wish somebody would have told me this, but it's like there's going to be a gap between you know what you're hearing in your head and what your music actually sounds like for a little while. And the only way to close that gap, to sound like your favorite artist or sound sonically as professional, is to do a shitload of work, to do a ton of work, and over time you're going to start to close that gap, but I'm probably butchering it, so I would just watch that video and then the last thing that I'll say here is something that was a direct kind of interaction that I've had.
Speaker 1:So the producer of Passion Pit actually happened to be a friend of a coworker of mine back when I had a corporate job in New York City and he took a little bit of time to just like review some of my music, give me some feedback, which was like at the time I was like, holy shit, like the producer of one of my favorite bands this is like 2010 or something right, when Passion Pit had blown up, took a moment and, just like you know, listen to my music. Cause my question was like dude, I've been doing this for like a bunch of years. What am I missing? Like I feel like there's just something that I'm not getting cause, when I listen to like other people's music, like there's something like it doesn't sound as exciting, it's a little bit flat, it's kind of dull, and I thought that I was just missing this one thing. And there is no single answer is basically what he said. And he's just like dude, I've been making this is what he said. He was like I've been making music for 10 years now and I'm just started to get half decent at it.
Speaker 1:He's basically like there isn't one answer. There's hundreds of answers, maybe thousands of tiny little answers that if you start to kind of take all of these things, they add up into something special. And kind of like I think that our brain, the human brain, is very silly and that it likes to oversimplify, right Most problems and like it's like, oh, like there must be one thing that I'm doing wrong. It's like, no, actually, like there's probably hundreds of tiny little things, and like that's what music production is to me, it's this attempt to gather all of these little, tiny moves so that when you're presented with these little problems, you have more strategies and techniques in your toolkit to rely on and that's all it is right. It's kind of just like lots of little moves they slowly add up into something special.
Speaker 2:Some fantastic advice and it's what you're saying there, the way you describe it, it's quite like a computer science sort of background, it's like abstraction, where you're removing the unnecessary information, then you're also you're breaking it down into these smaller, more manageable chunks and then sort of bringing it back together in this sort of compound effect.
Speaker 2:And I also really like what you said about the flexing the creative muscle, and it echoes a conversation I had, approximately this time last year actually, with a band called the Safety Worth and about how showing up every day and not waiting for inspiration to strike, but rather than just sit in front of your DAW, your keyboard, your guitar, whatever it may be, and just start to play something.
Speaker 2:Or, like you said, there are many tools, like Scala, for example, that will generate a core progression for you, rather than waiting for inspiration to strike. And it's something that I started at the beginning of this year because unfortunately, I fell into that category a lot of the time where I'd be like, oh, I'm not inspired, but I think that was just me being lazy and procrastinating and trying to do other things. But yeah, all of that is fantastic advice, specifically like the creative muscle and also the I was gonna say the flexing, the creative muscle, and the quantity equals quality. If I got that around the right way, which I really like as well, and how I just put in the timing and closing that gap so many really good nuggets of information there for our audience to take away.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the last thing.
Speaker 1:I'll say is just like what you mentioned about all these tools out there like Scala, too, is a great, great plug-in to maybe generate a core progression or melody from you. I think it's actually really cool to see what's on the other side of only relying on yourself, because if you sit down every single time and have to generate ideas strictly from yourself, from your own head, the only thing that you can create is based on your learnings, your environment, your experiences as a human right. That's all you have to access, and that might be a lot, and you can also learn more and always add to that. But if you're now accessing, like, all these algorithms or tools that can create ideas for you, you've just exponentially created a better producer than who you were a second ago. And I feel like you're still relying on your taste right To determine what's dope and what's not. And I think, like when I'm given ideas, maybe by an AI or by samples or something like that, I still get to tweak them, manipulate them, make them my own. But I get really excited when I stop relying solely on myself to create because, like it's just to me, it's like you're collaborating with like such powerful tools and there's, you know there can be sometimes like a little bit of a negative connotation to doing these types of things, but it's fair game, it's part of the game and for anyone who thinks it isn't, I suggest they read the book.
Speaker 1:Steel Like an Artist. It's a really I'm blanking on the writer right now, but it's one of my favorite books and it's very visual and it basically talks about how, like, everything in life is a remix and every idea is borrowed. So one of my favorite books.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've heard of that book and I do. I need to. I think I'm fairly certain it's on my Amazon wish list. Christmas is approaching, so my girlfriend doesn't listen to the podcast, but if she did there was a nod to that, though Maybe I'll make her listen to this one in the car, who knows? But, Sariq, this is fantastic advice. Absolutely love it. It's brilliant stuff. So I think we'll just sort of end it here by. Where can our audience find you online, and have you got any like key dates or any releases?
Speaker 1:Or anything coming up. Honestly, we're always releasing cool stuff, always working on new projects. So I think the best way to kind of connect with us is actually to just go to hyperbitscom. That's our website. If you go there, there's a free tab and there's just so many resources that we've created. So workshops, sample packs, pdfs, past podcasts, youtube videos just tons and tons of free content that we've really put a lot of like blood, sweat and tears into making our free stuff just really really dope. And I would just go there and grab stuff that you think might be helpful and from there you could opt into the email list and keep connected there. But if not, you could also just go grab a bunch of free stuff, and I think that's a great way to start.
Speaker 2:Fantastic, excellent stuff. I will put links to everything that we've mentioned today in the episode notes so the audience can go away and do that. Who doesn't like a freebie? I know I do all the time. I'm fairly confident the audience listening at the beginning of this episode. You've probably been introduced to some sort of freebie that I'm handing out there. So now, fantastic stuff there. It's been brilliant and thank you for getting up so early as well and joining me on this today, on a Sunday of the day.
Speaker 1:I sound like such a baby getting out. It's not even that early, but you know.
Speaker 2:Excellent stuff. Cheers buddy. I will speak to you soon, all right, thanks for having me, mark.
