#91: Music Production & Songwriting Tips | THE PRODUCER'S PUB

Welcome to another episode of Inside The Mix podcast, where we delve deep into the world of music production and songwriting. In this episode, we have a special treat for you as we gather some of the most talented and up-and-coming artists in the industry. Joining us at the Producer's Pub are Aisle9, Pashang, Sub Neon, Russell Nash and Neon Shade.

Together, we listen to and critique music from each artist, providing insightful feedback and valuable tips on how to take their productions to the next level. Whether you're a seasoned producer or just starting out, you're sure to pick up some useful advice that you can apply to your own music.

So grab a drink and join us at the Producer's Pub for an unforgettable evening of music and insights. Don't forget to like and subscribe to our channel for more episodes like this one!

CLICK HERE, to follow Aisle9: https://linktr.ee/aisle9
CLICK HERE, to follow Sub Neon: https://www.subneon.net/
CLICK HERE, to follow Russell Nash: https://Linktr.ee/russellnashmusic
CLICK HERE, to follow Neon Shade: https://Stream.to/NeonShade
CLICK HERE, to follow Pashang: https://pashang.bandcamp.com/

Chapters

• 0:00 Episode introduction
• 2:42 Pashang 'GTFO'
• 13:44 Neon Shade
• 23:17 Aisle9 ‘Phosphorescent-Adolescent’
• 34:15 Sub Neon 'Thunder Heart'
• 49:05 Russell Nash
• 55:55 Marc Matthews 'Let You Go'
• 1:00:35 Artist links

Transcript

0:35

Hey, inside the Mix podcast fans, it's Mark here from Noises Were made. We're a music-based podcast, and we do an interview series connecting people with their passions. So if you want to learn more about AI and music, or is the music industry dead and how people monetize things, then give our episodes a listen from all the mainstreaming platforms. But you're not here for me. You're here for the inside the mix. The next episode, let's check it out. Here's your host, Mark Matthews. Hello and welcome to the Inside the Mix podcast. I'm Mark Matthews, your host, musician, producer, and mix and mastering engineer. You've come to the right place if you want to know more about your favorite synth music artist, Music, engineering and production, songwriting and the music industry. I've been writing, producing, mixing, and mastering music for over 15 years, and I wanna share what I've learned with you folks. Welcome back to the Inside The Mix podcast. If you are a returning listener, welcome. If you are a new listener, please do hit that subscribe button. And uh, this is going live on YouTube as well. And uh, also Facebook also. And, uh, this is an episode of The Producer's Pub, so I'm welcomed today. I've got some, some newbies and I've got some old hats here as well. So I've got R nine, I've got Neon Shade, I've got P Sub Neon and also Russell Nash. Welcome gentlemen. I hope you're all doing well. How are we all good, I hope. Yeah, marvelous. Thank you. Oh, lovely stuff. That also gives me the opportunity to go and check the live streams, which are working fantastic. So if you've never listened to the podcast before and you're unsure of this format, basically the producer's pub works this way. Each artist has 30, 35 seconds. Uh, Tim has requested 40 in this instance. So how will Yeah, well, exactly. Yeah. So, uh, you're gonna have that amount of time and we're gonna play a song, a snippet from each artist and then just chat about it afterwards. So, Before we do that, before we play the song, each artist will also get the opportunity to uh, just chat a bit about the song itself or maybe in particular anything they want feedback on. So we'll kick things off with Pang. Can you tell us a bit about this track that we're about to hear? G T F O. All right, good. Cuz this is the one that's actually done and basically cued for release. So all your feedback will be entirely irrelevant in the terms of making this better, but it will improve the rest of my shreds over the summer of Shred. Uh, this is track two off of my Shred Wave EP coming whenever the last two guitarists decide to finish their shreds. Um, and uh, I'm just kidding, Russell. I love you man. Um, but uh, this is supposed to be conceptually. The bit of the EP story, I guess you'd say, where the, the spunky resistance members are fleeing from the evil undead, lifeless infinite robot army that has just invaded their planet and getting out to the Badlands where they can organize a resistance, which is gonna be Russell's part in the ep. So you're gonna get to hear a bit of shred and a little bit of my, I guess you call it a backing track. And I'm just curious to hear how well everything's glued together and what you think about the overall arrangement. Cuz I'm not a, uh, shred wave guy by trade. I'm learning as I go. Cool. Fantastic. Before we do that, thank you very much Brendan. Uh, thorax has joined us on YouTube, so I wanna give Thre a big shout. He's been on the podcast a few times, the notorious interview bomber. Uh, so it's good to have, uh, thorax in the chat. Yeah. Uh, love his work. I think he's probably booked on for one at some point. So yeah. Let's play this track. Here we go. Cool. Thanks buddy. Yeah, I really like that. Um, that's right on my street with metal in particular. So that's already released. You say that's all. It's all ma It's all, it's all done and dusted. Ready to go. It's all done and mastered. Al it's not, it's, it's not queued up for release yet. Dimi case track, track one is gonna be the first release from the album that's coming out at the end of the month. Um, but this one is track two, so it'll be next in the queue for release. Um, and that was the breakdown. So what I was curious to hear is how the, if you have any, we have any real drummers in the chat. You know, I, I use Easy Drummer. I've never sat behind a kit in my life. So I'm really curious to hear what you think about the drums and how well everything gels together as it goes back into the green view. My, my initial thoughts were the drums, um, having come from the metal world myself, um, drums sound great and, uh, this, this has become, I, I think it's probably cuz I come from the sort of like the more extreme side of metal, like death metal and, and the black metal side of things. Same thing. Oh man. Off the, my own heart. Um, so like, um, have you considered, have you got any like blast beats or, or do or more like just full on double, double kicks going on in any of your tracks? Uh, not yet, but it will happen. Yeah. That, that, that's immediately when I heard it. I was, that's what I kind of wanted to hear at some point. I, I appreciate it's already done already and, and whatnot. But yeah man, I think from drum's, drummer's perspective, I think that would be a specifically like blast beats. I do like me some blast beats. Yeah, man, fortunately, I, I, uh, it's programming them. You can't do it myself. I don't have double jointed ankles, but I do like the concept. Um, I, what I was trying to avoid with this when I, cuz I'm, I produced this entire track and then sent it toran who shredded over the, and then we never even changed the arrangement. He just is such a good guitarist. Yeah. We just popped everything right on top. So, uh, and then mixed it in and mastered as you do. But, uh, I think I'm a little afraid of putting blast beats into a track and then sitting into a guitarist and saying, Hey, good luck with this part. Um, but I do want to try it at some point over the summer. So Yeah. You will get your blast beats track. Yeah. Make this solid. Yeah. Send it over. I assume that it's got lots of halftime in it has it, you know, um, not as much as I want, but, uh, more than a lot of guitarists tend to expect I've found. Yeah. That's always good. Um, I do like my breakdowns. Yeah, that's good. Yeah. Drums are my weakness. Yeah. And those drum, I, I actually really like them a lot and like you said, double kick would help but. They're way better than what I got going on right now. That's like the last thing I worry about in my mixes of the drums. Cause I'm the least drums. I, I never had, like you said, I'm not be, I never go behind a kit. So it, I think the biggest thing on, on drum sound that I find is like, it's getting the ru if you've got on easy drummer or you know, addicted drums or whatever, like, or um, slate, you know, um, it's, it's the way you treat the individual signals, just like mixing a kit and how you treat the room. The room mics particularly like on a lot of metal stuff. Like, you know, cuz you, you want a bit of that room in there, so rather than reverb you actually want room and like compressing the rooms to buggery and um, you know, parallel compression with the room mics can really add that. But you know, it's kind of, it is quite a lot to it to get that real. Metal drum sound, you know? Yeah. Um, you're not careful. You spend years and end up with St. Anger, you know, I just get 10. I listened to that whole album the other day for the first time in many years. Do you get a medal for doing that? Yeah. Yeah. I should do. I should do, yeah. Yeah. It's, it is an interesting one saying anger. Just a little segue actually, mark, um, have you seen that there's, uh, I can't remember the name of this guy, but he's like a metal guitarist on YouTube and, um, he rerecorded the whole Saint Anger album as if it had been produced to sound like the Black album. And it's actually. It. I'll send you the in glare. Yeah. I, I, I have seen something where someone has, I didn't, I cannot remember if he did it in the Style of the Black. I think I've seen Black plastic combined two, the Black album. Um, yeah, I know. I, I've seen one where, uh, they've just done it with like modern metal production, so it might be a different, but yeah, send me that. Um, cuz the snare on the black album is, is something else. I'd be interested to know what they've done with that. That's a shot, that snare. Yeah. It's bad. It must be difficult with the shred wave thing, Brendan, like mixing in synths guitars and the more live drums, you kind of, you know, fine with all of that. It must be quite a job on the mixing side. Well, the whole goal of the zep is to, to showcase the guitars. Not me, I'm presenting the album because it was my stupid idea. But the goal is I set up a track, you know, it's as bare bones basic as can be. And then we make it work to fit the vibe that the guitarist is wanting to put out there. Like Dimmy case track, track one is way more, um, kind of, not lowkey exactly, but it's called lockdown. So it's got this kind of claustrophobic vibe to it. Whereas the, the song you just listen to a clip of is just pure car chase music. It's high bpm and that fits Rand's style of shreds a lot better. So what I tried to do is really basically just make a backing track and the only person that's gonna have to deal with an overly done overproduced mix his typhon, cuz he was the first person, uh, that I finished a track for. And we'll probably have to pair it down and take stuff out as he goes. But, uh, generally this, the, the tracks I've made have been really basic and if anything they're probably not complete enough and I needed to add more stuff in, which is a first for me. I like if you heard in the breakdown, there's just that 1 cent and that was pretty much it. Um, there wasn't a lot going on there cuz it's, it's all about the guitars. I mean, for me, like this track, um, I, I'm kind of struggling to find, must critique to be honest. Um, because I'm, I'm, I'm more of a kinda classic heavy metal kind guy. So like, I, I actually kinda like the drums just, just, just as they are. Um, that's like more Mac a more mackin a thing is, um, I thought they were very uh, Nick Menza, if you know who that is. Yeah. And uh, excellent sub. Do you have any thoughts? Dude, I love all of you. Just got a little smile, mean you know everything. No, you don't get to say that. Sorry. Have to have to. Um, everything that you do with Round comes out so, so good. Um, I guess, um, I mean, for, for the, for the style that you've gone there, gone with there. I can't think of anything that I would do differently with the drums. I mean, you know, you know what I mean? I quite like natural sounding drums anyway. And, um, um mm-hmm. You know, I was thinking does it need an impact or something like that to really punch through into the next section? I don't think it does, you know, I th I think, I think it works perfectly fine as it does. So a a as it is. So did, but the question I had was, did, did you, do you ever give, ran any direction having never done a collab before? Goodness. No. Oh, can I, can I just say, shout out to Rand, man, he is so fucking easy to work with. Oh my God. Like, he's so good. It's cheating. Like when it, when I, when I did like, uh, the, like the track with him, like, it was just, it was seamless. Just I sent him something, he sent it back. Then I sent it back. Then he sent it back, then it done. That's nice. Collab. That's where you want, man. He is the, the most, so, uh, yeah. Fucking shout to Ryan. Amazing collaborating person. Ever. Go collab with him if you haven't. No wait. Let him release Exos epilogue first. Cause I really want that album and then bother him for collab. It's like when Mark and I col amazing. When he sent me something, I sent him something back. He told me it was rubbish. I redid it. Oh dear. No. Yeah. Incidentally, that, that guitar track is, uh, is beautiful. Tim and I must, uh, must thank you for that. Um, no, no. It's been on my list of things to do for a very long time. Uh, in terms of actually just releasing something with regards to like a snippet of audio from it. And then, uh, then heat heatstroke got the bear on me or just heat. Um, Yeah, heat. The typical British thing, the heat is on. Anyway, I digress. Yeah, it is. That's a great, what movie is that from? It's that Caddy Shack. Oh, is that Caddy Slim Fry? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm just thinking there's a, there's a, there's a classic scene in an eighties film where the heat is on. I think it's Caddy Shack. Anyway, uh, p Brilliant. Thank you very much for that. Thank you. Thank you. No more. Uh, neon Shade. We'll, we'll move on to you now. Uh, tell us a bit about this track we're about to hit or rather snippet. All right. Um, it kind of connects to my other projects that I have going on. Uh, search Avoid is kind of like my experimental project and, uh, I create something with Search Devoid and that's more outer space. And I always love the concept of like cell dweller and scan Android. Um, how we. Remixes and collaborates with himself. And that I, I tried doing that with this song and I did it on accident. I was creating this end of time song and also I'm like, wait, I'm gonna go back to my search Devoid song. Oh, that's in the same key. So I kind of, um, created the song based on Exosphere, which is the Search Devoid song. So it was like collaboration with myself referencing my other project. So end of time is futuristic synth wavish, and, uh, my most energetic song I probably ever released. Yeah, you sent me on a, uh, a scan, cell dweller rabbit hole. Yeah, I do. A week or so ago, man, I got totally lost about ages, man. Ages and ages, but thank you for that. Uh, yeah, let's do this. Here we go. Waiting for the nine. Cool. Thanks buddy. Uh, that intro up that you've got at the beginning there, is that, did you program all those notes in or is it just a, an app that's running? Yeah. Um, I programmed them all in, I think they're 16th notes and I ran 'em through my Beringer model D and then, uh, You probably can't hear it very well with it being over the internet and stream, but I have that Model D, it's a model instrument obviously, so that's down the middle. And then I have a panning left and right in the background. High cut, um, uh, panning left and right behind all that. So it's kind of like I'm trying to utilize the panning stereo field as best as I can. I really like it when the vocal, when the, cuz I, I wasn't expecting that sort of change when that vocal came in. I thought that was really cool and the way it switched up there really, really good. My only thought was maybe under that, like those lead bits, it kind of maybe needs something underneath it. Um, possibly, but I appreciate it's like a demo. That was my only initial thought, but I really like it how it comes in with your vocal. Um, I think that sounds great. So sort of open it up to the floor. Yeah, I was, I was gonna comment on the ARP as well. Um, after I, that was the first thing it jumped out of me. That was like really cool. Um, and then, yeah, like, I mean I, I think overall like it sounded really good. Um, the only thing that I would really comment is. Is the thing that you've already commented yourself. So the drums, I'm kick you down, but, but like, uh, yeah, like yeah, the drums like, um, oh man, you too. I reckon that if, yeah, like if, if you maybe added like a little bit of like, uh, maybe like a little bit of like a build, so like, I don't know, maybe like, you know, starting the kick and then kinda like introduce like parts of the, the kick kind. I gradually to build it up and then when it all kicks in, then like the, the full beat kicks in. Like, something like that. Like, I think, I think that would be quite cool. I was, I was, uh, I, I overuse and overdo the whole tension release thing a lot in my tracks because I really liked that feeling of, uh, drop it into a groove. And I thought when the vocals came in, cause I wasn't expecting in me there, I was, I kind of, yeah. My face went from mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. To like, ooh. So. I, I wanna, I want a little bit of a signpost that I'm about to go, Ooh. When I listen, you know, it's like a tom fill little riser, some kind of transition into that vocal part to say, Hey, cool Arp is coming into something even fucking cooler. Um, and I think, like you said, adding the pad or like a low end, some kind of pulsing thing in the, in the back and then bringing in, you know, with a riser, a sweep or reverse symbol or something and maybe a little tom fill into the vocals. And then making that like a big moment in the track would be really, really cool. Um, with the context that I have. That's what I was thinking. Yeah. Drums for me, man. That's a good point. What I grew up doing the EDM stuff, so it's always the fourth floor kick. And that's what got me into making music. And I kind of just been focusing on the four to four click kick and then everything else has since, and I'm like, oh crap. Well, I don't wanna go back and do the drums cuz I'm not good at that, so I'm just gonna keep it there. I'm, I'm so basic with the percussion. Um, an interesting resource, maybe if you're having problems with that is mid, um, mid sort of files really so that you just got like, you know, mid drum patterns, like actually, so, and you don't need to write your whole track using them, but you can sometimes find fills and stuff like that just already as mid and then you can of course use your own sounds. Um, and the, some of the, I mean a lot of, uh, I dunno. Batteries probably got them. I know um, groove agent that I use in Cubase has got them, but like probably Logic or whatever, you know, they've actually got uh, I know things like Easy Drummer and all that has them. Um, you know, so it depends what you are using drum wise, but like you literally can just drag them out onto your timeline, you know, chop 'em about of course cuz they're mid. So you can do whatever you like with them and then just fire them off using, you know, whatever samples you are, you are using, what kit you're using and that saves you a lot of like hassle of, I dunno, how to program a good fill here. You get a good fill, you put it in there and then of course you start to look at how they're made up and how they're written and then you start to do them yourself cuz you go, oh yeah, it does this across, you know, this pattern. So that might be a good solution for getting some really wicked fills. Plus a lot of them are actually played in. By real drummers, they record them off pads and so they've got drummers feel to them and they actually can be, you know, quite hard to program it that well. So, you know, something else that I, I've done like to work on my drums cuz uh, like see when I, like when I used to be in like, in a rock and metal bands years ago, um, my drummer was always like giving me shit because like the, the beats that I used to make were fucking terrible. Um, so like, he would, he would always like fucking get on at me, like to, to, to make better beats. So like, just anytime I was like listening to music and I, I, I liked the sound of a beat, then I would just kind of take a mental note of it, like try to kind of visualize it and then I would take that like into the dot and then like try and try and recreate it. Um, you know, it's, it was quite a lot kind of trial and error, but like, um, yeah I did, I did that quite a lot to kinda like learn like kind, you know, how, how to kind of put together more can comp. I wish I would've had a Tim when I bought Easy Drummer a while back, and I didn't even know it did midi. I was programming like everything, everything you heard from, from everything you will hear on this straightway VP is me randomly like fi figuring out how to use easy drummer clicking stuff that messing with velocity. And then at the very end I was like, oh, it's enormous library face. I also paid for quite a few mini files that I could have used and just tweaked and made my life easier. And it really does help now that I'm kind of playing around with them to see how velocity comes into play with drums like a Tom fill. Not every Tom is being hit as hard as fucking possible. Um, the, the, the nuance of drumming, that's a lot different. Maybe when you're doing EDM dance, music, synth wave, whatever, a lot of the time. You actually don't want too much velocity going on. You just want a lot of consistency and kicks and snares and stuff. But real drummers obviously, I mean, no, I won't go into real drummers, but real drummers, you know, no, like they, they, they definitely play with all kinds of joyous timing and human error and um, like, you know, velocity. So you've gotta kind of get that in there, really, you know, if you noticed in the track, if you listen to the clip again for whatever reason, you'll notice that the kick and the snare have nothing to do with the rest of the kit. So I, I killed the kick of the snare out of that easy drummer kit cuz I wanted that sin wave sound for the main bits of the beat, the kick in the snare. So I'm actually just using samples. I have 'em on a different, different buses and everything and then all the, the crashes and the China and stuff is easy drummer. So it's a little bit of both mixed together and I found was perfect. Yeah. Got sampled. Kick and snare. And then the rest of it is, is, is more a live feel. Yeah. Yeah. It makes perfect sense. Yeah. Yeah. So that was, that was kind of how I learned how to use real drums and, and had some more variety in is by keeping that four on the floor, like you were saying earlier, David, like the simple e EDM beats and then slowly adding in more stuff, um, as we go. That was really, really fun. We'll move on. Uh, thank you. Uh, thank you David. We'll move on to aisle nine now. Uh, so a little bit about this track, Tim, off we got. Wow. This is a bit random really. Um, it's called Phosphorescent Adolescent. Um, and uh, basically I kind of, um, I think it is gonna be a song. I'm not quite, you know, in the sense of have vocal elements to it. Um, but I, at the moment it kind of. It's, I, I actually have kind of created the lyrics for it using AI and, um, uh, the voice is AI as well, and it's just like a spoken sort of voice. But, um, and I kind of started off doing this, so I came up with the title Phosphorus and Adolescent. But like, um, you know, I, I actually began to quite like the idea of, uh, what it had created. I was asking basically, um, to, um, I, I decided to ask, um, chat g p t or whatever, like, um, what it, you know, problems it had growing up as an adolescent, so, you know, and to write a song about this. So that's kind of where this came from. I mean, at the moment you'll hear probably just one verse, and there is another verse coming along, but like, yeah, um, I don't know, sort of, I guess it's in the synth wave, synth pop kind of area. You know, it's probably more synth pop than it is synth wave at the moment. Um, but uh, yeah, probably started with a baseline or something, drum and baseline like that. You know, I was, well, no, I think it's the baseline rather than the drums. The drums are pretty simple at the moment. Uh, but yeah, yeah, a little bit of filtering. Li a little playing around. It's quite basic, uh, what we've got in there at the moment. But yeah, see what you reckon. It's a bit random. Uh, bath thorax commented just now. He says I'm probably the weird one out here, but I do love synthetic, perfect electronic drums. It's something I really associate associate with eighties electronic music. Yeah, yeah. Um, let's bit of a, I enjoy them too. An insight from thre though. Yeah. So, uh, alright, here we go. This is, uh, oh nine. Let me find it. Um, phosphorate adolescent Phosphorescent adolescent. Phosphorescent. Adolescent phosphorescent, adolescent phosphorescent, adolescent. My troubled childhood. I remember the intense emotions that I experienced as a teenager. I felt everything so intensely, euphoria, anger, sadness. I struggled to communicate with my family and often felt like I was on my own. On my own. Adolescent. Adolescent. Cool. I hope I didn't cut it too short then Cut it just as the hook, but it's all right. Uh, I, I really like the idea, I love the idea of having chat g p t go through these hardships and struggles. Yeah. That was what I trying to get in a musical form. Yeah. It's just like, you know what, what, what, what does it not know about? And, and yet trying to get it, it's that kind of whole thing of, yeah, I just found that interesting. So. Hmm. Yeah, it's quite bad. Both. I also really love Yeah, yeah. The use of delay as well. I'm, I'm looking forward to hear hearing more the time-based processing and stuff you do on the vocal track. One thing I've gotta say is what do you use for bass, because I really like the bass in your tracks. Um, what, uh, is it a combination of multiple things? Yeah. Or what's like the primary base? Yeah. The, there, there is generally a combo baseline. I think actually there might have been three, uh, different bass sounds in that, but like, um, it's very often like something like the cog Poly six, you know, doing the kind of standard synth way bass, but also. I tend to layer that with, um, an o bx, um, some sort of light base off the, um, you know, some kind of OB heimer, um, sort of base. Um, and uh, I think on that one I had, it might have just been because I had slightly different, I sort of had an offbeat as well on the base, which I think I put onto a slightly sort of, you know, it, it still sits in the base range, but I put it on a different sound just to sort of delineate it from the rest of them. So, so it wasn't as basey, but like, um, yeah. Yeah. So it does tend to be those two things. And then a lot of it is, How I process it really is sort of like, you know? Mm-hmm. And, um, and my love of the DBX 1 1 60, um, uh, uh, compressor on anything base related. I love that. So, you know. Yeah. Um, it's a lovely compressor. Yeah. Yeah. But like, yeah, so it's that sort of thing really, I think. And then sometimes, you know, a bit of sub harmonic, um, things like rase or, um, there's a bx sub fulfilled, sub harmonic sort of, uh, thing, which I like, you know, and it's weird sometimes you can even sort of eq the base out a little bit out of, like, I think when I'm layering up bases, I won't have obviously the same amount of bass in each bass sound, you know, sometimes I'll have one that's doing more of the sub end and one that's doing more of the top end or something like that. But like, then I'll al also like, you know, sometimes it's weird. Sometimes I find you can even filter out a little bit of the low end and then use a sub. Harmonic sort of thing to get a kind of more pure low end on the end of it. So, which is a little bit weird, but it can work. So, you know. Um hmm. That's approach, an approach I use quite a lot actually, what you mentioned there, using the, using the separate sort of sub sound Yeah. And then carving out that space. Yeah. In the low. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. It's nice man. I really like that. I really like that bass. Yeah. Sound in in your twos in general. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, it's quite an i nine esque thing in the sense I kind of go for that sound in other things, I guess. Yeah. Um, I, I love every track that you put out, Tim. Um, I, I think, you know, this one is no different. It sounds awesome. Um, have you, have you thought about doing any further vocal processing on the AI vocals? Yeah. Yeah. Something like a waves Harmony or something like that. Yeah. I think that would be really excellent actually to do something. Maybe some vocoding, maybe some harmony, something like that. Yeah, I like that idea. I think, yeah, more, more needs to happen with the vocal things on it. It needs to go somewhere, vocally, maybe some human voice as well. Somebody had actually suggested, because it is a girl, I think sort of doing the AI at the moment, and because obviously the kind of story of adolescents, whatever, maybe it'd be good to have a guy as well and like to have one verse from a, a girl one, you know, AI voice and one from a guy. So maybe I'll do that. I don't know. Yeah, no, just like expanding on, um, yeah, like some neon's idea. Like what, what we doing something like, like a cannon, like in the outro, like with, with, uh, the vocals. And then have like the, like, you know, have, have like the repetitions, like follow, not like a cannon commonizing, someone firing off a massive gun that was getting a bit like, you know, sort of No, no for me, but like, yeah. Um, uh, Yeah. Yeah. Um, I, I know what you mean. Yeah. Packer, bell, cannon, whatever. Yeah. Oh, excellent. Yeah, I like that idea. Yeah. Yeah. So the, the kind of vocals are falling over each other kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. That could be interesting. Well, we could just do them just like, uh, about a 16th apart so that they're really confusing and you can't understand what they're saying. Do you ever find you do that when you are, if you, you are copying parts across and sometimes you copy a drum track across and you get it a 16th out and you copy a, another part over the top of something else, and you hear it and you go, oh, no, that's terrible. What have I done there? And then you stop and you go like, Ashley, that's really interesting. And sometimes you do these kind of bad copies of things and even just put something out of time and go, oh, that sounds really interesting. Next to what it's like. I always, I I, it's a thing Brian Enos used to say was like, if you make a mistake, Listen to it, think about it, decide whether actually it's a mistake or it's the best thing you've done all day. And you, you have to be really careful to, like, sometimes your mistakes are a really good thing like that. And rhythm can be really interesting like that when you think, oh no, I've put that out of time. And then you go, ah, well that sounds maybe interesting in that time. So, you know, uh, but you made me think about that with your Canon idea. It's some similar kind of thing. Mm mm Have you ever heard a song by Arcadian called Propaganda? I think I might have. Yeah. I promise you have. If you've ever gone on to Mark Delight stream or any, any Twitch stream for synth wave that smash, like, don't forget to subscribe, smash, like Yeah. Yeah. Don't forget to subscribe. I know you've heard it. So anyway, it has exactly the kind of processing that I would love to hear on this track. It's got a, an AI voice. Yeah. You know, text to speech, algorithmic ai. Uh, this time it's talking about the decline of society through the internet. So it's kind of the opposite angle as what you're looking at a robot talking about, you know, adolescence. But the processing on it is absolutely excellent. Spot on. What I would recommend, okay. Never listen to this track. So I, I'm not gonna give you any vocal processing tips cuz I'm not very good at it myself. But go listen to Propaganda by star Arcadian, listen to the vocals and. If you make your vocal sound like that, it is gonna sound amazing in the context. Excellent. Of that song. Excellent. Excellent. That sounds good. I like that idea very much. Thank you. I, it was working back I aisle L nine, what you just mentioned before about the mistakes and analyzing it before you delete it or fix it. I did that with end of time. I was recording a guitar part, which I'm not very good at guitar, but I went to set it down and I still had it recording and that me moving my finger on the, the string, having that, uh, you know, that sound come through, I actually deleted everything up to that part and kept that part in, like, added it as like a little riser to a part, which is, it was, I never would've known that. I would never would've done that before, or I never done that before actually. And, uh, I kept it in, in a. It's part of the song now. Yeah. And is a really good part of the song, the sort of unique part of the song. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Excellent. Yeah, exactly. Fantastic stuff. Thank you. Thank you. R nine. I look forward to hearing more of that. Uh, I'm, I'm intrigued by the AI journey of this. Yeah. This, this, this adolescent ai. Uh, very interesting. I love the idea, you know, just sort of get AI artwork and then master it using AI and then put it all out, you know? Oh, go the whole hog ai all the way. Yeah. Uh, before we move on to, uh, sub Neon, just going over to YouTube, so Blockhouse, uh, as a very ropey vocalist, AI vocal sound, like they could be handy for me. Um, and I also wanna give a big shout out to Blockhouse as well, who's been on the podcast before. And the producers b who's also now, um, sort of admin in the Facebook group for the podcast. He's happily taken on that role, which is a godsend to me. So, massive shout out to, uh, to Nick. So, neon, what have we got coming up? Ah, thank you. Um, okay, we've got, uh, a track called, uh, thunder Heart. This is gonna be my seventh release. And similar to Ang, um, it's kind of done from a composition perspective, I think. Um, I, I think there's a little bit of work to do from a mix point of view and, um, as hopefully you'll hear, um, and if you've ever heard any of my stuff before, there's, there's lots of light and light and dark. If you're like big bass, light and crispy and getting that balance right is, um, It is getting better for me, but it's always a challenge. Challenge, you know, to, and you'll, you'll hopefully hear kind of a, a, a, a, a base note in this particular clip that I'm working really hard to get to pop through. Um, if you've ever heard woken furies by gunship, for example, it's got that awesome thump when it kicks in. You know, that's the kind of cut through I'm trying to get and I'm trying compression saturation and, um, side chain it. And I've got track space of working, network working nine to a dozen, uh, in the, in the track. And, uh, yeah, so, so a, any advice that you can give from a mixed point of view would be really appreciated. And Okay. Actually I've been trying to get aisle nine to listen to this for about three weeks because he's the most I've been. Shit, haven't I really? Absolutely. Fucking shit. I will listen to it and get back to you. I will, yeah. Okay. Call him out on air. Here we go. That's cool, man. I can hear the, uh, the gun ship esque sort of. Yeah, I like Lu is there, I like big Gunship fan. I think that sounds cool, man. With regards to the, that you said about the kick? No, the, sorry, the base coming through. Mm-hmm. Uh, you said compression, saturation, um, X, Y, Z. Have you just tried automation and automate the level of the kick? Uh, yeah, I've got a bit of automation going on in there. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Just on the game. Yeah. Um, yeah. And, um, uh, there is a, a dynamic EQ on pro q3, I think, to, to get some of the higher, uh, uh, frequencies of the, of the base hit popping through. Um, oh, so is it the higher frequencies of the base that you wanna pop through? Not like the low, it's, it's kind of, it's the higher, it's kind of a bit of both, you know? Yeah. So, um, I don't want it to just be sub-base punching through. Yeah. Yeah. There's a bit of a flavor that needs to come through as a part of that as well, I think. So is this a certain parts of the track that you want this to cut through or is it all the way through? Is it on just certain hits or, uh, that, that, that base hit is a regular feature throughout the track. I mean, it's probably got about 10 different changes as is per my, my usual. I mean, mo uh, a big thing to watch, but yes is, I dunno what you've got on your bus, but like, is to watch that you, you are not essentially pushing and pushing and pushing things, but essentially you've got like limiting and compression and stuff on your bus. That means you just, every time you push it, it will just flatten it. So you, you, you've got no headroom. So I would start with giving yourself more headroom than you currently have, and then you might get that bit coming through. Um, and hitting through and, and, and just try it with more headroom and see how, and then, you know, obviously we can kind of take care of that in the mastering stage a little bit. But like, but yeah, just be careful that you're not going, I, I get this myself cuz I like using a lot of bus stuff like going on and sometimes I'll be going, why is this sounding so shit? Why am I pushing this up and it's getting no louder. Why does it just sound rubbish? And then the answer is, oh yeah, yeah, cuz I'm compressing and, uh, limiting the hell out of this at the other end. So, you know, I, I, which is not what I'm trying to do generally. I'm trying to just. D you know, finesse it a little bit, um, while I'm working on it, but sometimes you forget that gradually as you are mixing, you're pushing all the levels and you are kind of hitting the end stops harder. Yeah. So actually that's, that's quite interesting you say that because, um, on, on the base bus, one of the base buses, cause I've got three, um, uh, I've got a, a limiter working quite hard on that, um, uh, on that base hit because there's, there's an Ableton plug and I've been searching for about, uh, uh, solidly for a week to try and find the right noise to hit that, that, that, you know, that, that, that hit. And uh, I found it in an Ableton preset. Um, but it's a bit wild. I dunno why, but every time it plays, it doesn't matter where you set the game, it will just kind of shoot up to minus six rather than minus 18 or whatever. And, and, uh, the limit is trying to keep that under control. So maybe it's having a, an adverse effect on, on the stuff that's cutting through. Yeah, I mean that's the other thing is sometimes you have one sound come on and it just means that your, your bus, everything, everything is going down in volume. But yeah, that's, that's something to watch out for when you can't get things to punch through is, and the other thing is sort of speed of compressors and where the attack is and where the release is. Cuz if you have the attack really fast, then obviously it's gonna catch all the transients. If you put the attack slow on a compressor, everything's gonna punch through and, you know, uh, and you, you're gonna have, you're gonna get much more of the transient coming through. So you gotta gotta think on those different settings on compressors and uh, and as well limiters as well the speed of release on your limiter and that sort of thing. So, you know, failing that, I've got one other solution. If you do all of that and you still can't sort the, the thump you need, you export the entire thing, you import that back, and then you put your hits in, then you export that all out. So you do your hits on top of the final, you know, your punch throws on top of your, your mix. So you do a mix and then you bring that back into your door and add your punch sounds, your, your big sounds, and then export that. I don't know why people don't think of that, why I punch through. When you, like, you do that of everything mixing. You can just explore everything out. What are you one about? Um, you export everything out and then you can do that with all kinds of things, like, with mixing, like, you know, just like, do subm mixes, do exports? I mean, do you do that Mark, ever? It's interesting you mentioned that cuz it's, it's something I'm gonna do with the song that, uh, I'm gonna play at the end here cuz there's a particular effect I want and I'm just gonna bounce it out. Yeah. And then put the effect on the beginning and the end. Yeah. Um, I'm, I mean, in my head sometimes I, I get, I get bogged down and I, I question myself thinking I, I don't want to, I don't wanna. Like render and render and render again and again. But then I'm thinking to myself, actually it's ones and zeros. Like, is the end listener gonna know that I've bounced this track twice, three times maybe. You know, I know I have. Does anyone know? Are they really gonna know? No. Um, maybe some purist out there will be like, that's recorded. And you mix that with logic and I'll be like, oh, fuck off. It doesn't matter, you know? Um, but. Yeah, I, I'm of a mindset, like if you've got a, if you've got like something that, a problem that needs solving, then yeah, do that. Do whatever you need to do. You know, don't be limited. I mean, if you're really anal, you can expo sport it a 32 bit, put it back in at 32 bit and then the chances of anyone being able to tell you that anything happened to it, as long as you keep it all at 32 bit floating point before you export it at 24 is um, uh, I think they're making it up if they think that's happened, you know, so, but it's not always a good idea to do that. But it can be for specific, you know, things that there's no other way of solving or it's just easier, like you say, mark to put a filter on that section, filter on that section. Just do it as a whole mix. Just did a song recently where we just, I spent ages trying to do all this clever automation on a whole load of, I had. Five drum buses going. It was really complicated. Uh, like, um, and then eventually I was like, I was trying to filter half of these and it was getting really stupid. And then I was like, I can't work out what I'm doing. And then I, I suddenly went, oh, I'm just gonna export that bit, bring it back in, stick it on a track, put this filtering on. It was done in 10 seconds when I stopped trying to do it a really complicated way. So, yeah, can be good. I've done it on a, I've, I've done it with a master where I, I got done with the mix, sent it to the guy who masters my track, he sends it back and I listened through it. I'm like, oh crap, I forgot a vocoder part. Well, that's my like, difference in my second verse was that VO coder. So I just took that vo coder stem, put it underneath the master, and then I took the frequency of a dynamic EQ of the master track and just around the frequencies of that VO coder is, and I blended the taste. So now kind of feels like it's morphed into that master. No one's gonna notice. No one's gonna care when they listen to it. Me and. I felt bad. I just, I kind of felt like I was cheating a little bit. Cause like, but fuck it, it's out there. It's on Spotify. I forgot about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly man. That's, that's exactly it. No, no, no one like you, you know yourself, but like no, no one knows. That's why they're trying not to get bogged down in these, these intricacies sometimes, cuz I did. I think you need to think every now and again. I think actually is anyone gonna know? I've said it before, like if I turn this snare down by 0.5 db, maybe in certain sections. Possibly, but I wouldn't Yeah. Get too bogged down. Uh, right. Um, we'll move on to the next one. Thank you very much. Sub. And actually before we do this, I've got an interesting comment on YouTube and I think you'll like this one actually sub neon. So, uh, this is um, uh, from uh, a gentleman called George Thomas who says, sorry I missed the intros. Is the top bright English guy you sub neon the same person that does the 80 songs on Instagram and wears a Cassio digital watch. I think he thinks your sunglasses kid. I think that's what I've surmised from That can be wrong. That's what I've surmised from that. I, I, I don't, I don't think that's me. Uh, I think I've got more hair, uh, than sunglasses kids. Yeah. Yeah. So, but it's very flattering because he's very talented. Yes. Yeah. Uh, but, and, uh, just making sure there's nothing else I've missed and, um, oh, thorax another suddenly on banger. Can I, can I, can I just ask, uh, uh, like, uh, see what the automation you've used, is it, is it just volume automation? Uh, I'm trying to remember now. Uh, I've got three base, uh, tracks delivering that hit and one of them pivots to mono, uh, to, to, to really try and get that hit, to cut through, uh, in the center. Um, but generally it's, it's, um, uh, it's volume. Because something I was kind of thinking, um, you know, how you were talking about how you wanted some of those, uh, like kinda upper base frequencies to cut through a bit, just to give it a bit more definition and less just kinda low end thump. Um, obviously like those, those kind of frequencies are probably cra uh, clash for your chords. Like whatever's playing your chords. Could you not like automate like a little duck in the chords and like automate like a little boost in the base around the same frequency? Like just for like those little sections just so that it just pokes through. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Just enough for those, for those parts. Yeah. I've got track spacer doing that, but maybe I need two different, um, instances of pro Q3 to, to do that a little bit more cleanly perhaps. So I'll, I'll, I'll have a look at that for sure. I'm very dubious about track spacer. I'll say nothing. Well, um, passive. Passive EQ work in the lower frequencies, like 20 and 30 hertz versus a surgical eq because I, I, I produced a, uh, hip hop track under neon shade with my friend and I had to learn a lot about different types of EQs. They boost the passive EQs are way different and than, uh, surgical EQs. So for their, for their 8 0 8 s for it to pop through, they'll have the, um, they'll have that thump on the bottom, take like 20 or 30 hertz and have like a broad, um, cue, whatever you wanna call it. And then bring that, boost that up and attenuate a little bit, play with it. And you'll have that, you'll have that low end thump. That's how they get their 8 0 8 s to really have the balls underneath. So you're talking about the width of the queue on, on, on the, um, on your parametric e queue. Yeah. From like a surgically queue has got a, a tight queue on it, um, because you are only addressing a certain frequency, whereas when you're wanting to do a more broad thing, you're widening out the queue. Is that what you're talking about? Necho? Yeah, I'm not too familiar with what, like the differences between passive and surgical, like graph equalizers that we're all familiar with that, um, is different than what a passive eq like a pole tech, I think is, uh, one, it's almost kns versus the actual visual of the frequencies. Um, yeah, I, I have studio once, so those in the fat channel plugins, it has those, um, different varieties of passive EQs and the hip hop community uses that a lot for the 8 0 8 s and then to take a bus and they use like a saturater a or some kind of distortion in the back and they blend it to really pop through the mix. Um, so I, that's something that helped me when I was making a hip hop track. And now I use that also for. All my other synth wave stuff if I need that thump on the bottom. And I also choose between what's important, the kick or the, or the baseline, cuz it's hard to win both. You have to kind of choose which one's getting, gonna get the main attention, the kick or the base, cuz it's hard to have both. Um, sometimes I use serum and serum is great. Um, if you want type, type base, cuz you can actually type in like, uh, like a eighth note. Let's say your base is eighth note. You can type it in there and it'll give you the actual milliseconds and then you can release as down much as far down as you want. It'll be tighter and tighter so you know when that kick comes in, that base note ended. Jen in the, uh, this is, this is great man. The interest of time. Thank you very much. Um, we, we'll we'll move on to Russell now cause I, I fear I don't want to keep everyone for too, too long. Um, so I think what we'll do is, we'll, we'll play Russell's being the last one and, uh, I'll save mine for next time. So, uh, Russell, what have we got? What have we got for your particular track? Um, it's, uh, it's just like a snippet of a track that, um, I starred maybe like a couple of weeks ago. It's, um, it's going to be like the first track to an EP that I'm planning to release later in the year. Um, I'm not gonna say too much more about it, uh, just now, but like, uh, it is a. Okey dokey. Let's give it a go. That's really cool, mate. Immediately I'm gonna go onto bass. I'm always drawn in by bass. I really like the, the bass science you've got going on there and there's the actual base, no progressions. You've got the PR progression you've got going on as well. Uh, struck me as well because it kind of goes in the direction. I didn't think it was gonna go. I think it's, I I was gonna try and mimic it then, but I was gonna do it really badly. It's like the second to last note isn't the note that I would expect, and I really like that. I think it sounds really, really cool. Um, really nice bass. All about the bass at the moment, finding that perfect sculpting, that bass sound. Yeah, I like the bass as well. I like, I like, I have to say I really liked it until the league came in, which sounds a bit harsh, but I don't know. It was something about the lead, didn't I? Just, I don't know. It didn't, I was kind of getting excited and then the lead came in and I just felt like, oh, right, it does, that does it. Which sounds harsh, but it just sort of felt. I didn't, yeah, the lead wasn't as exciting as I, I was really kind of getting, really led in, I love the bass and the drums. I was really, really building up. And then the lead just, and it wasn't, I, I mean, it's a nice lead sound and everything. It wasn't, I can't exactly pinpoint and tell you what it is, but it just wasn't quite as, um, exciting or maybe it didn't go somewhere musically. I'm not sure what it is, but like, yeah, the lead sound, I just found there was something, when it came in, it wasn't quite as exciting as I thought. You know, it's, it's that anticipation. You build up with the beginning and then you just go, ah, all right, it's done. That it's not like that. It was bad, but, you know, it's just like, I, I wonder if maybe there's something even better. Yeah. Well, I, I can, I can have a play around with the, the arrangement. See if, See if we can find something or, uh, I'm gonna come out swinging for the, I'm, I'm gonna come out, uh, in, in favor of that lead. Actually, I cry. I really liked it. Um, it reminded me of a particular scene in, uh, Heather's actually. Uh, if you, if you've ever seen that. Um, and, um, um, I wonder weather, because it's con context is everything in these situations, isn't it? It's where it's gonna go. And, and that felt like a, a sort of a bridge. Yeah. Um, and, um, yeah, I mean, but maybe it could be, uh, thickened up a little bit with, um, uh, an additional. Uh, preset, maybe a, maybe an Octa up or an Octa down. Um, or, or maybe slightly out of sync perhaps. I, I actually tried that on, uh, on, on, on my track that I've got a, a, a baseline that, um, is, is relatively simple. And then I've got, uh, uh, a higher octa up. Uh, it's an instance of serum where, where it's playing something slightly more complicated, but, but at a higher register. And, and it sounded amazing. Um, you probably can't hear it cause the mix is so bad, but, you know, it might be worth trying something like that. Um, but the bass drums is really working well on that track. I think that's, I think that's the thing, isn't it? It's all, do you ever find this when, when things you get some elements are so good. That they actually just pushed the other elements to be even better. Like in another track you could have gone, oh, that's fine, that's good. But like, you kind of built something that I'm gonna, right what's, oh, this is gonna do, you know, so you, you were really building my anticipation and I just wanted it to be, not that anything was bad about that. I think most people I've gone like, oh, that's a good lead. But I just thought, I think it might, you know, maybe Russell can do something even more amazing or maybe it just needs to build and another element comes in and then, you know, maybe that's what it is, is the Sure. The arrangement as you say, it's where the arrangement goes after that. But I do really like it. It's really good. Yeah, the lead, if you could add layers, that'd be awesome. Uh, maybe like, uh, detouring in the background, slightly underneath a different layer to kind of give it, create more width. Um, automate gate with the lead. So it's kind of like a little more movement, a little more variation. Automate some reverb delay in the back. Maybe just a little bit, I don't know, like play around with it. Cuz from my memory it sounds kind of dry. Very, it's very, yeah. Maybe that's very tight. Okay. Yeah, sure. Then. No, that, that, that, that's cool. I mean, um, I'm, you know, like I say, I'm, I'm, I'm kind, I'm open to suggestion. It's, um, it's still in like, kind a very early stages. So, um, yeah, like, you know, like I, I can, I can have a little player end, but your, I can't slide so modulation on the base cuz I, I think you've got some sort of movement between, you know, or, or g listening between notes, which I really liked Portamento or whatever, but it was really, really nice. I really liked that on the bass. Really wicked. Yeah. There's like, yeah, there's, there's, there's like, kinda like, there's like market Yeah. Like when, when the knot changes. Mm-hmm. Um, and yeah, I dunno. I just, I just thought that was kind of cool. Whilst we're on the, um, topic of base, uh, Jens, uh, th uh, not thorax, sorry. Shout out the thorax. Anyway, uh, Blockhouse says that base is fire. You two comment that? Yeah. Shall we go? Yeah. Thanks. It is indeed. Um, oh, Jed, if, uh, thank, thanks Russell. Um, I some great bass in today's episode. I think what I'll do is I, we got a bit of time that, uh, left. I think I'll just quickly play cuz the 30 seconds that I have of mine. So I've gone back on what I said just now, um, which is terrible. Uh, so basically this is a mix of a track that I started probably about 18 months ago, maybe two years ago. I started writing this and I've recently. Done the first mix. And it is just the vocal on this particular part and how it, not necessarily how it sits in the mix, but how it's arranged. Do things, is it too much? Is there too, too much in terms of vocal? Is there too little? And also the time-based process like reverbs and delays. I'd be interested to know your thoughts on this and um, I'm just gonna find it. Oh, there it is. I've done the classic thing though. I haven't listened to that in a week. And, um, having mixed it and now I can pick out stuff already. Um, but there we go. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so yeah, open it up. Uh, what'd you guys think? It's basically the, it's the vocal really that I'm interested to know people's thoughts on. I know I've, I've sent this over to you already, Tim. Yeah. Um, I, I, I, I sent you some kind of essay, didn't I? Previously? Well, didn't I? Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. All very useful stuff in my add. Yeah, no, I've, I've, yeah. Suddenly on saying I didn't send it to him, but I sent it to Mark. There we go. Um, yeah. Um, no, um, yeah, you can see it. Yeah, the jealousy of his expression, demands of my time. Um, the, uh, I, I think that that vocals really sweet. It's really, really nice. Um, I, I the, cuz you've got sort of like a kind of, uh, two vocals, haven't you? You've got the main vocal and a kind of almost like question and answer thing. Yeah. I think maybe. I mean, you could put some filtering or something. You could, you could separate the two. They, they, they could feel more separate either in the panning or the treatment of them so that they, that those, that question and answer thing comes out more in that vocal, I think. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's what I, I think that's what I'm hearing and I think you're right there cuz it's only the, cuz I, I appreciate, I haven't played the verse, but in the verse it's a lot easier to distinguish and I'm happy with the verse. It's just that chorus. And I think you're right in that they, they're maybe they, they, they sound like they're coming from too much of the same space. Yeah. And they need to be different. Yeah. I think it'd be quite cool if the, if the see the backing vocal had a, a little bit more echo on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's another one as well. There's somebody else has mentioned that as well. So it's definitely something I'm gonna look at. Yeah. A little corner Goat delay. I've always been, that'd be really cool. Uh, when, when I mix them, I've always been like, I'll get it to the point where it needs to be. Then I duck it back slightly and then maybe I need to get over that and actually just kick it on a bit more. It's got a slightly Fleetwood Mac vibe to it. That was my only feedback. Ah, I do love Fleetwood Matt. Yeah. That's not a bad thing, is it? That's a good point. Yeah. Do you remember Sweet Little Lies? It could have been influencing me at the time. Do you remember Sweet Little Lies by Fleetwood Mac and like if you listen to the way the vocals work in that, that might be a, an interesting lesson. Yeah. They're making it. That's a good point. Yeah. Little sweet Little lies and like, and that they're amazing. The way the vocals are mixed in't that. No surprise. They could probably pay someone fairly decent to do it. Yeah. Not just their, that's, that's, that's a good chart. See? Yeah. My brother's quite good at mixing. I'll just give him this. I'm trying to think. Um, I'm not very good at. I'm still learning how to process vocals and stuff, even with my voice. Uh, you know, when she, they call response, let you go, it seems like that should, it's like lushy, you know, it's more lush Instead of having the harmonies all together dry and that part, the response part, maybe have like the main vocal drive and then harmonies put the, maybe a reverb on the actual channel, not a, not a effects channel or a bus channel, and just give it like a 30% reverb and have it be more lushy on that response part. Let you ho and it has that nice, nice little, uh, you know, flow at the, what the rose reverb does. Yeah. Know what you mean? Yeah. Maybe I, I would, I would try to experiment with it, but. Freaking vocals sound good though? We just, just send them pre favor to a bus. That'll be it. That'll do the same job. Then you don't have to stick the reverb on the channel. Hey, there you go. Yeah. Yeah. I, yeah, I'm not, I'm, I'm old. Old school's the wrong way of putting it, but yeah, definitely. I'm all about buses, buse. But people don't get this do they with i i with buses? Do they like, would you agree, mark? It's like a classic thing that you, you sort of, I know exactly what you mean, Neha, the effect, you mean, and it produces the same effect, but like when you send me off to a bus, you've got an option, well, on most doors, and I'm sure you do on Logic mark, like, you know, to send prepaid or post fade to the bus. If you send post fade, which is what you'd normally want to do, then obviously, um, as you reduce the volume down on the channel, the amount going to the reverb will go down. Or if you push the volume up at the vocal, more of the local will go to the reverb. But if you want that kind of really, Bedding into the reverb sound, but you want to keep the vocal at the level that you want it at. Then if you send it pre fader, then you can just send as much into the reverb as you want without adjusting the volume of the track. Um, so of the vocal. Yeah. Yeah. There we go. I'm sure you all needed to know that. I'm definitely gonna do that though. It needs something and it needs, it's that time-based process, and I mentioned earlier that needs dressing and those are all really, really good points, especially sweet little lights. Uh, do a bit of a, yeah, that's a good shout. See, that's a good shout. I might have been listening to Fleet with Mac when I, when I, this is like, I think it was like the second song I put together when I started this journey into electronic consent music. So, um, it's like a, a bastardized version of everything I've done over the last two or three years. Which has been, it's been hard. It's been hard. Um, but no, thank you very much, Jed. Uh, this is, this is fantastic. So as always, with this, uh, actually before I do this, I'll just go to YouTube and make sure I haven't missed anything. Nope. Um, we'll go around the houses so, uh, you know, you know what's about to happen, uh, those who've been on before. So just where the audience can find you and if you have anything happening in the next month or so, just give it a shout out as well. Uh, so I'm gonna go round on my screen here. So I'll start with Tim and aisle nine. You can normally find me in the kitchen making a cup of tea, but failing that, you can probably find me in the studio or at aisle nine. Music on spot. Um, Instagram obviously R nine on Spotify and all the, um, streaming platforms. You can find me on YouTube and everything else. Um, I, if you're on Twitter, go and try I at I nine synth wave and not at i l nine Music cuz so many people do because although they're both me, I just don't look at one of them. There we go. That's me. There we go folks. There we go. Uh, neon shaded. Oh, if you're looking for makeup and eyeliner, um, you'll find Neon Shade on YouTube. But the other Neon Shade, which is me is the music guy. So I'm on YouTube, Spotify, all the streaming services, uh, neon Shades spectrum between light and dark music. You don't know where you're gonna get when I release music, so, fantastic. Uh, brilliant. Thank you very much. Uh, Yeah. Um, same as, uh, everybody else. I'm on Distro Kids, so my music is in everywhere, including places you would never think to look. Um, I did get a penny on Deezer recently. I was very happy about. Um, but I do have a new album coming out sometime over the summer, which is gonna feature the fine guitar talents of Dimmi Kay. And Ran and Typhon and our very own Russell Nash. Um, I'm really, really excited for it. It's probably the thing I've done. Ever that I'm the most excited about musically, cuz it's not about me, it's about showcasing the coolest guitarists in the scene and what they can do. So please keep an eye out for lockdown, which is the first single off the album dropping June 30th, everywhere. That's the one with Dimi Kay. And then from there we'll see what happens. But everything I release is gonna have shreds in it all summer long. It's the summer of Shred. So if you know anyone who must have shred over some synth wave, please let me know. Brilliant. Have we go folks? Get in contact with, uh, Pang there. Um, there'll be, uh, contact details in the episode description sub neon. Now your turn. You can find me in my, uh, tiny cupboard of a, a studio generally. But, uh, uh, Harry Potter, I'm, I'm never getting away from that. That's, uh, online, uh, poking me in the ribs about that on every single podcast. Uh, um, uh, I'm, I'm on all of the streamers, uh, that you, you can find, um, all, all of my socials via suddenly on.net. Um, and I will hopefully touch wood, be releasing Thunder Hearts in July as my first release through retro synth records. So, very excited about that. Fantastic. Yes. Excellent stuff. And Russell Nash, you can find me in the link in the description that I'll have Mark put in the video. There we go. Sure. Sweet. Fantastic. Uh, Jed, thank you very much. It's, uh, it's been a pleasure, um, some slight technical issues and whatnot and um, but we got that. And, um, I will leave you to enjoy the rest of your Sunday. And folks, before we go, actually, if you would like to jump on an episode of the Producers Pub, just head over to inside the Mix podcast.podium.com and you can sign up there or you can just go to Inside The Mix podcast on Instagram and click on the link bio and it'll take you to the same place and you can join us. The next available one is the July the 30th edition. July the second is fully booked. So, uh, yeah, get a space book for that one. Jens, I will bid you farewell and have a great evening or whatever time of day is where you are. And then someone's dog needs walking by the sounds of things. That's the dog. There we go. Uh, brilliant Jenz, thanks again, and our speech all soon.