#80: Music Production & Songwriting Tips | THE PRODUCER'S PUB

Welcome to another episode of Inside The Mix podcast, where we delve deep into the world of music production and songwriting. In this episode, we have a special treat for you as we gather some of the most talented and up-and-coming artists in the industry. Joining us at the Producer's Pub are Venturer, Russell Nash, Sub Neon, Liam Leon, and Kamen Noodles.

Together, we listen to and critique music from each artist, providing insightful feedback and valuable tips on how to take their productions to the next level. Whether you're a seasoned producer or just starting out, you're sure to pick up some useful advice that you can apply to your own music.

So grab a drink and join us at the Producer's Pub for an unforgettable evening of music and insights. Don't forget to like and subscribe to our channel for more episodes like this one!

CLICK HERE, to follow Venturer: https://linktr.ee/venturersynth
CLICK HERE, to follow Sub Neon: https://www.subneon.net/
CLICK HERE, to follow Liam Leon: https://linktr.ee/LIAMLEON
CLICK HERE, to follow Russell Nash: https://linktr.ee/russellnashmusic
CLICK HERE, to follow Kamen Noodles: https://www.instagram.com/kamenoodles

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Transcript

0:01

You are listening to the Inside The Mix podcast with your host, Mark Matthews. Hello and welcome to the Inside the Mix podcast. I'm Mark Matthews, your host, musician, producer, and mix and mastering engineer. You've come to the right place if you want to know more about your favorite synth music artist, music, engineering and production, songwriting and the music industry. I've been writing, producing, mixing, and mastering music for over 15 years, and I wanna share what I've learned with you. Hey folks, and welcome back to The Inside The Mix podcast. If you are a new listener, thank you for joining and welcome. And do please hit subscribe. If you are a returning listener, welcome back. And before we get started, I just wanna say or give a shout out to the two new podcast subscribers, uh, ESIA Car. And Emma, thank you for supporting. The podcast and all its content. So today's episode is another episode of the Producer's Pub and it's, uh, the format is gonna continue. The format that we started last time, um, albeit we're gonna do slightly shorter snippets of tracks this time cause it proved very, very popular. Uh, this episode is gonna be, uh, well it is live now on YouTube, Facebook, and Twitch. Uh, how successful it'll be on Twitch. I don't know. Cause I literally set it up 15 minutes ago. So we'll see what happens episode and nobody knows it's on there. So you will for next time. Um, so today joining me, I've got five, uh, producers. I've got sub Neon, I've got Ventura, I've got Liam Leon, I've got Carmen Noodles, and I've got Russell Nash. So you've got some old hats and we've got some new bees as well. How are we, Jens and happy Easter. It is Easter Sunday today. Oh yeah. So has, yeah. Alright. Happy Easter. Happy Easter. Fantastic. Lovely stuff. What better way to spend an Easter, uh, Easter Sunday? Um, I say that, I dunno if that's true or not. We'll see by the end of the episode. So in this episode, what we're gonna do is we're gonna play a song or a snippet, 30 to 60 seconds of a track, and then we're just going to offer feedback on it, what we think, and maybe some, um, advice or critique, et cetera. And, um, Sorry, just looking at the chat there. And, uh, what, what we're gonna do is we're gonna start first with Liam. Liam, uh, so your track, can you just give us a bit of background on the song itself before we play it? Uh, yeah, sure. So it's, um, it's completely unreleased. This is like brand new. Um, and it isn't actually finished yet. I've still got like, quite a lot of work to do on it. Um, and it's gonna be, I'm, I'm sort of working on like a new album. Um, Very slowly but surely, and he's gonna be on that. Um, And it's very, the genre, maybe like very sim pop. I dunno if anyone's heard any of my music before, but I do put the vocals in them as well. Um, and yeah, the reason why I submitted it to, for people to listen to is I'm having trouble, and I know we can get into this like after, after you've actually listened to it. Um, but there is something that I'm may be struggling a little bit with, with the song. Um, so what I've submitted is the chorus and then like the. You like when you get a chorus and like the after chorus that sort of like trails off before you get to the bridge. So it's sort of that section. Um, and I'm really, I'm happy with it overall. I'm really, really happy with how it's going. I think I'm just struggling. I'm, I'm hitting a wall in a certain area, but I can sort of talk about that after you've heard it really? So, yeah. But I hope you like it. Ace mate. Yeah. Brilliant. Okay, so what's the, have you got a title for it yet? Uh, losing my Heart, I think it is. But you'll, you'll, yeah. Cause that's what it's, that's what I'm singing. Yeah. Cool. Cool. Okay, let's give it a go. Let you take it heart tonight, tonight. So, Losing my heart tonight. Tonight, tonight. Hey mate, I really like that. I think that sounds great. Uh, you can definitely hear the synth pop vibes in that Really, really cool. That's so odd. I mean, people just listen to it while, while I'm sat here. That's a really odd experience for you. It is, isn't it? It is. I found that when I first played music on this last time, and when I find that when you watch other people listening to your music, I almost hear it a different way and I start to immediately, I get quite critical when I see other people listening or, yeah, when I see other people listening to my music are probably overly critical again, but I think it sounds really good. So the bit you're struggling with then is where you're transitioning from. Like the end of the chorus into the, into the bridge or like into the next section? Is that, is that what you were saying? Kind, kind of. I've kind of got my head around, um, the structure of songs. Cause that was like a big problem. My intros were way too long. My outros were way too long. And I'm trying to sort of, I've, I've liked stood it a little bit on that. Uh, the problem is, is actually on the producing side, it's um, it's like what, what we call, is it the drop? So when it goes from like the verse into the chorus and it's meant to sound like, In like an umph, like louder and sort of an impact. Yeah. Um, so it's kind of like, I, I feel like in my head it sounds kind of flat as it's going along. Do you know what I mean? There's no ups or downs or anything. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um, I struggle a lot with, uh, symbols, like add in that sort of crash sound when a chorus comes in. Um, I rarely hear that problem in any anyone else's song, but with mine, I just, I really struggle with that while I'm just trying to, I've tried so many different tips. Um, one of them was when it came to like mastering, reducing. The volume of the verses, like by one db and then like bringing it up again just to how you don't really hear it, but it kind of makes that change you, that makes that little effect. But yeah, I just, I feel like it just sounds like flat, like along all along really. So I didn't know. How do people approach that when they structure their music? Do they take that into consideration when going from, you know, a verse, a bridge into a chorus? Do they or do they just sort of. You know, stack things up or Yeah. How do people doing really? I, I, I was kind of thinking like, sorry, I've just finished listening to it. Like you wouldn't load. Um, I was thinking the exact same thing when, when I was listening through it that, um, you know, like melodically, it's, it's really nice. Like all, all the parts work really well together and it's, you know, it sounds nice, but it was very, it was very much just, Like kinda all the way through. But I mean, maybe something I, I would do like, like if it was my track, like what I would maybe do for that little post chorus bit is like, uh, just kind of dial it down. Maybe just have like the base, the kick and like the high hat supporting the vocals. Like just to kind of take it down a notch and then see when it goes into the next section, then bring, bring the cords back in and like bring everything else back in. Like that's, that's something I do sometimes to kind of create like ebbs and flows in, in, uh, composition. Yeah. So like remove elements throughout the song Yeah. And change. Yeah, just, just to kinda take it down a little bit and then just bring those elements back in when it goes into the next section. Then you get like, you get like that impact. Yeah, that's what I was, I was gonna say the exact same thing as what Russell said then is um, I remember having this conversation with Tim all nine a while back and it was a case of sometimes you gotta remove rather than add to add impact. So you have that mm-hmm. That space. Mm-hmm. Um, that trick, what you mentioned about mastering in. Interesting because I, I, it's something that I, I've done in the past whereby you have that verse down of 0.5 db, um, and then it kicks back into the chorus. But I think unless you've got that sort of night and day that, um, that Russell's described previously, I think that's quite an impactful way of doing it. It's reducing and then adding and then adding to it. I dunno if anybody else has got any other ideas. I don't have much experience with writing music with vocals, but I find that a lot of the ways that I add impact between sections is I use kind of like a, a noise riser between like rising up to the next section and sometimes even, even with my new music, I've been kind of just cutting everything out in the last bar, or not the last bar, but the last pulse of one bar and then it like, Really adds impact, but I don't know. I think we have very different styles of music, so it might work better for some versus others. Yeah, I'm looking for a one size fits all, but I think that's the beauty of having different producers though from different. Genres is that you can steal mag pie ideas from, because I've listened to the Ventura stuff and it is different to yourself and also different to mine as well. It's great, but it is different. And I think if you could like mag pie those ideas and then put them, then put 'em in your own, I think that's great. And I think that's what I've realized off the back of the previous episode when we did this, uh, four weeks ago. Um, Yeah. Great song though, mate. I, I was gonna say, um, that's, this is totally off air, but I, I'm gonna be in the need for a male, another male vocalist at some point, so I'll probably be, I'll give you a shout. Wait, um, keep you, keep you busy. Cause I got some stuff I'm working on, but Will, well, that's a discussion for another, another time. Um, yeah. Uh, any other, uh, any other comments, uh, sub neon or, or carbon noodles? George. Yeah, no, I was, I, I, I think I was gonna make the same point as Venter actually, as, as both, uh, Russell and Venter that I think, uh, yeah, you, you can maybe add a little bit by removing some of the, uh, and definitely some risers and fallers, uh, always helped to, uh, to give it that bit of mph. But yeah, great track. I mean, the production on it was great. I, I switched to my monitors when I've been, uh, listening to, uh, yeah, when I'm listening to the tracks and yeah, it sounded really, really well produced. So, uh, no. Sounds amazing. No, no, that, that's, that's incredibly helpful. Thank you so much. Cause like I say, I'm, I'm used to, um, just stacking as much as I can really. And then, but I never really consider taking things away to create that bigger impact where I want it to be. Um, so yeah, I'll maybe I'll take that into consideration for sure. And, um, Yeah, I just wanted to, I just wanted to impact when, when the chorus hits just even more. I think it's just something that I'm a bit obsessed with at the moment. Cause I feel like I can't do it. But that's really helpful, so thank you. No, I, I think you're right and I think, um, it's something that I toy with as, as well. Cause my music's quite similar to yours. Um, it's in that sort of same ballpark and it's always something I can, I can got, I can craft these verses that sound great, but then when the chorus hits, I'm kind of like, ugh. Like that. It's kind of a, I feel let down by the chorus. And, um, yeah, it's, uh, yeah. Yeah. So these, this is great ideas and fantastic stuff, Jens, so I realized I started with the wrong person, but I made it seamless. Um, so we'll move on now to Karma noodles. George, what have we got with your one? Um, so, uh, yeah. Hi everyone. Uh, I'm gonna share like a sort of lofi beat that I've been working on. Uh, I, I think I made it back in January and it is the classic case of a new gear. New gear. Um, I'm wanting to put new gear on everything cuz I made it so I, I basically bought an amp simulator for the guitar. I originally recorded it on, then I eventually purchased a an amp and uh, wanted to put it on all of my pre-existent backlogged songs that I was working on to the classic, uh, classic audio, uh, pitfall. Mm-hmm. But, um, yeah, I didn't really think the lead was working. So sort of, yeah, my, yeah. Tips are sort of, yeah. Maybe how to also, similar way, it's sort of the main hook of the song. It sounds a bit, It's just guitar and a light synth at the minute, and I'm sort of thinking of how can I make that sound a bit bigger, if you know what I mean? So, um, yeah, no, that's sort of what I'm, uh, I'm looking at. Fantastic. Okay, let's give this a go. Uh, Russell, if you're downloading this, this is titled Inside the Mix 30 seconds, and that is the final, uh, title. Yeah. Creatively titled um, I'm just gonna quickly flick over to, uh, YouTube and Facebook. Uh, we've got some viewers, no one's saying anything, but, um, that's part of the course. All right, let's do this. Hey, mate. I I love that. I love that. Good. That guitar change you got Nice said. What I was thinking is at the end of those 30 seconds, In my head what I, what I kind of wanted to hear was like some sort of leads, I know you were playing, there was lead guitar there, but like going into like a, a lead se, sex se section, if that makes sense. Like a proper, not like shredding solar or anything, but just like a nice melodic lead off the back of that. Out of interest, what guitar DSP were you using before you bought the app? So I was using the, that is, um, the, Kori Wong Archetype. So they make like a lot of, um, they do a lot of like amp plugins for mostly like met also like Cleany. And I'm pretty sure that, uh, NLY Get Good has from Peripheries got, uh, one, but they made a clean one based on like a Kori Wong. Uh, he's sort of more of a funk guitarist, but it's really good for clean tone. It's like my favorite, uh, clean tone, uh, amp sim that I've found online. But yeah, I bought this, um, this victory amp head that has like an XLR output that you can plug directly into your interface. And it has like a built-in cab simulator in it, so you can Yeah, just, uh, forever. Uh, you, you know, you're a guitarist yourself. The hunt for the perfect tone is endless. Yeah, it is. It is. And it's interesting you mentioned the Plenty. It's the neural dsp, isn't it? Cause I, yeah, yeah. I downloaded the free trial for the Plenty one today and I was noodling around with it. And um, I had the gnarly one before that. The nly one's really good. It's got some really good, uh, metal, um, rhythm, rhythm tone, driving length. Two minutes. Yeah, no worries mate. Uh, metal, uh, metal, uh, rhythm tones and lead. But what was the, it was Corey, what was the name of the Cleveland? Uh, Corey Wong. Corey on. Yeah, because I, I need, I need some really good clean tones. Yeah. Check it out. It, it does look like a crunch as well, really well, as well. It's, uh, anything from like sort of clean to light gain, it does really, really well. Nice. I think it has like three amps, a dumble offender and then another, I think a jazz chorus that it emulates. Yeah, I'm not, A hundred percent on the, but yeah. Nice mate. I was, I've been, I've been playing around with the Sisters of Mercy cover today, so, um, I'm, I'm working my way through that. We'll see how that goes. Uh, but I, I really like that, mate. I really like that lo-fi and that guitar as well. Um, really, really nice. That was my initial thought was I was expecting it to go off in a, in a lead sort of section after that. But, um, yeah. Open up to the forum. What, what do we think guys? Yeah. Uh, the first thing I think is that you need to speak to our mutual friend, uh, Johnny Adams. Mm-hmm. Because, uh, I think, I think you two guys would make some beautiful music together, cuz he makes like some of those kind of, uh, lofi beats for the, like the clean guitar, like kinda leads on them. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. No, I, I, I liked it. Oh, thank you. I really liked it as well. Um, but what, what. Are you looking to improve the, the lead? Yeah, just generally like the composition of the lead? Yeah. Just generally either the lead or sort of maybe some, some sort of rhythmic, because I think in the demo that I've currently got, what sort of I'm stuck on is I think I loop that bit again before like strip stripping it back a little bit and then going into a verse. So maybe, yeah, something, something maybe like what Mark suggested of like maybe adding a lead or, or just any sort of, um, Yeah, like sort of ear candy that you can chuck in to sort of, uh, make it a bit, um, just a little bit sweeter and a bit, uh, yeah, add a bit of variation and maybe also, uh, it sounds to me a little bit quite empty at the minute, so I'm trying to think of some leads or synth pads that I can maybe like layer in Okay. To make it bigger, if you know what I mean. Yeah. I mean, I, I could hear, I could hear some bells or something after the, after the first loop of the lead, I could hear maybe some, like some Glock spiel bells or something, or I don't know, just some percussive kind of like high end. That's what I, that's what I kind of had going on in my mind. What could come up next? Um, I've tried writing lofi in the past and it hasn't really worked, but, so take my stuff with a grain of salt. I like to add lots of layers to my music, but I think some layers could do. The song pretty well. Yeah. Thank you. That's a really good, uh, no, I definitely think I'll, uh, I'll give that a go. Uh, cuz I think, yeah, like you said, it could just add that little bit of variation subtly and also layer it up because, uh, yeah, no, thank you. That's a really good, uh, really good one. It's, it's interesting, isn't it? With lo-fi Oh, sorry, mark. Oh, I was just gonna say, um, I, I'm not familiar. I've listened to lo-fi, but I'm not familiar how it's written, so I wouldn't know how you would layer lo-fi. So it's quite interesting to see what people would think. What you would add is like, I like the idea of the bells and, and the percussive elements. Um, cuz I think you could quite easily get, um, busy, I think with Lofi, couldn't it? If you had too much. So the bells sound good. Yeah. And you've always sort of like, You know, you have to finally balance sort of being too repetitive and being mundane, but not sticking out because obviously the listener sort of wants it for more of a chill, you know, like while you do, you know, it's not grabbing your attention as much as maybe, uh, other, other kinds of music. So it is a real, like, fine line between making it not stick out too much, but making it stick out just enough that it's like, ooh, that's, that's nice. So, uh, yeah, no, something, something I thought would be nice is, um, See if you do like a kinda subtle, kind of like, question and answer, like, uh, with a, with a guitar, even, even maybe. Not even like, like a, not even like a really obvious way, but like if, if the, the guitar plays like a kind of question melody, and then there's a like a kinda like, almost like a kinda echoy like reply in, like in the background. Like Yeah. That I, I was kinda hearing that in my head. I thought that one might be quite nice. That's a really good one I think. Yeah. Like, especially cuz you've got that sort of, um, low end guitar or, or sort of in the, it's sitting quite in the, like the midrange that, that's sort of doing it. Dun, dun dun. I think you could definitely add another layer and have that be like a column response sort of. Uh, now that's a really good one. I like that. I had two suggestions, which I think might be, might work with well with it from, I've, I've listened to a fair bit of low fight before. Um, and I know one of them's kind of like a bit of a cheat really, but the other one I'll say that is, um, a high pitched, uh, piano, uh, melody in the background. They work really well, piano and guitars, cause it's really like Sam's really acoustic, like real instruments. Um, so adding a piano would light blend really well with it. Um, so like you could try that and then you can mix up, um, you can create like a really interesting melody with pianos cuz it doesn't overtake the whole thing. It's just like a little pluck of a piano, like high. Um, and the other one was, um, you can add, uh, rain, rain effect. Um, but the reason I say that is because, um, having a rain effect will allow you to add, um, more percussions, but they'd blend better. They wouldn't stand out as much. Cause I know it's meant to be. You know, lofi, you know, so, but if you added like, like a rain effect or something, you could, you could mess around with more repercussions and it'd blend better. Um, cuz it'd match it. So, but yeah. But maybe, maybe try the piano one as well. I mean, that sound pretty good. No, absolutely. That sounds, uh, again, that's another one. I think that could also be like with the sort of Glock and spiel, uh, uh, recommendation by Venture. I reckon that could be, uh, either the piano or the Glo. I think I'll have to try both and see which, uh, if both or one could. Uh, I think that's definitely a cool idea. And maybe even could incorporate that with the call and response idea from Russell. I think that's definitely a, uh, cool idea. No, thank you. That's a really good, uh, really good tip. I think it's great ideas. You could have like a call and response Glock bill on piano, like left and right, just happened. Call and response, something along those lines. The Toms are similar but different. At the same time. Um, and then you can even echo like one off of the other. So you could have the guitar and then you could have the piano respond over here. And then you could have the Glock and spiel echo the piano over here. Ooh, yeah. There we go. Here you go. That is a, uh, a vortex of sound right there. That's like ultimate chill. I was gonna open the floor to be like, oh, has anyone got any recommendations for piano vsts? But I don't think we've got time. Uh, I'm terrible with mine. I auto, I, I think the only ones I've got, I use the Cog M one. I use that way too much. Way too much. This is all right for like house and various other bits and pieces. Addictive keys is quite good and I know Native Instruments has some really good stuff in the contact library, but it's been so long since I've got into that, the Air Grande piano, um, which is really nice. Um, It's like, I think it's like a Hana quit, but like, if you wait, like you'll get it on sale for like a tenor. Keep that one in mind, but, and for a tenor, it's definitely worth it. Yeah, absolutely. No, by 88. 88 or something. But they, they have a good grand piano plugin. Who, who is that boy? I think that's called 88. 88. I'll post it in the producer chat later, but there, there's, there's a really, really nice free one as well by, uh, I think it's it's key zone or something like that. It's like, um, it's not the absolute nicest one out there, but it's free and it's, you know, for free. It's very, very nice. Oh, it's sonovox. That's what it is. There we go. Put them in the chat chance cuz um, I'd be interested in those as well. Um, I, I definitely need some more piano, um, vsts too. Lovely stuff. Excellent. So, uh, moving on to the next one. Um, thanks, uh, everyone. Thank you. Uh, George. Uh, we've got Sub neon. Um, a bit about this track buddy. What we got? Yeah. Um, so, so this is, uh, a continuation of my exploration of synth wave style sounds and then throwing a bit of nasty bass in at the same time. Um, It's, uh, uh, uh, it's a, it's 92nd clip that I've, I've put together. I've, I've, I've shared a little bit of this on, on social media and, um, that's kind of what I do. I kind of build a track up and share a little bit as it, as it advances, as I, as I, as I develop it. And I've kind of hit a wall a little bit. It, the, the clip has got, um, It's got a bit of a verse and then it moves into, um, uh, the, the chorus proper. And, um, uh, I, I'm, I'm not sure where to go next to be honest. I mean, to, to be honest, the, the, the majority of my tracks, uh, have so much variation. You know, they could be like eight or nine different tempo changes or, or what have you, or, uh, uh, it's completely different sections that just jump in because I just get bored of listening to the same thing over and over again. Um, and I dunno whether to keep. The same kind of level of energy that this section has got, or whether I should. Changed its dynamic again, you know, so I'd be interested to hear what people think. So, brilliant. Okay, mate. Um, let's, uh, let's give it a go. So, uh, night Runner, is that the work in progress name, or is that the final name? That's right, yeah. I should, I should have said that, shouldn't I? Yes, night runner. No worries, man. Here we go. It's awesome. Oh, it's fading out. Ace, ace. Brilliant mate. My initial, my, my straightaway, my thought was around 30 seconds. Cuz you've got that, that energy. That energy, that energy. I, I, I kind of wanted to hear it just drop out. Um, and then, Be quite sparse and then may, I dunno, maybe a slower tempo. Okay. But certainly like the energy to drop out and then you can build it back up and come back in again. Um, that's my next, because that's what I thought was gonna happen at 30 seconds. I was waiting for a drop. Um, But maybe that's a good, I dunno, maybe that's a good thing. Maybe you, you're keeping me on my, on the edge of my seat. See the, the, uh, the, the little, um, section that, that joins the verse, the chorus I only wrote probably 18 hours ago, so it's Oh, wow. It's not hard and fast. Yeah. Um, it, it could completely change. I mean, I, I've, um, I quite like the idea of dropping, dropping out to almost nothing. Mm. But it's about what do you drop out? You know, because I'm, I'm, I, I, I suffer from the same kind of thing that some of the guys have been talking about. You know, you keep layering stuff in and you think, I really like that. I wanna keep that there and I wanna keep this there, and wouldn't it be great if I added this to compliment that sound? Um, and, and so it, it, it feels alien to me to take something out, you know? So, um, but as, um, Uh, Cayman Noodles has, has just clearly sort of illustrated that the, the, the theuse of silence and space is, it can be so effective. So, so I'm really interested, you know, I might, I might give that a go. Definitely. Yeah. I think what, what you could do is, Sorry mate, as um, my to just to give it a go and see what happens. Um, a really quick way of seeing if it'll work is just to drop everything out, like leave in the sub subbase and then just have a synth, but get a low pass filter and just roll off the, with the low pass filter some of that top end, those top end frequencies. Um, almost creating like a band pass on it and just see what it sounds like and then use that as a building block and then build from there. Cause I know what you mean. Sometimes it can be like, I've got all this going on. What. Do I actually wanna get rid of to create the space? Um, and sometimes it's not necessarily removing in an instrument per se, but you might just remove frequency content to make it different. That's, that's one thought anyway. Sorry Russell. Go ahead mate. No, I, I, I was just gonna say like, uh, what, what I was hearing in my head was, uh, just dropping it down to the vocoder. Like, I think that would sound fucking cool if there was just like a, like may, maybe even just, just like a phrase or just a line with just the vocoder and then everything else comes back in. I think that would be fucking cool. There's a vo code in there. I I, I mean, do you mean like the, the, the base noise that, um, on, on the beginning of the bar? The, the thing that sounds like a robo vice to me. Oh, really? Me anyway. Okay. That, that's, um, I, I, that, that's six layered, uh, tracks from a, a synth called Halo, which is just an insane monster of a synth. Um, so, so, yeah, I, I see what you mean now. Yeah. There, there, there is a, a kind of a vocal element to one of the sounds in there. Um, okay. Yeah. I'll give that a go. That sounds like a good idea. I think. I think that would sound cool. Um, that, that's what I was thinking anyway. Did you say six le six layers, mate? Six is, I've, I've, I've been following Ventura. Uh, and, and you know, bass is the way forward, I have to say, you know, so, so yeah, there's, um, that, that little one and a half second, uh, sound that it makes on the b on the bar. Uh, yeah, there's, there's six separate sounds layered together. To, to make that noise. Have you got, have you got six separate instrument tracks? Are they like in in one? In one? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate you taking some inspiration, but I don't think I've ever layered six basses, but it sounds cool. I like the way it sounds. Um, what I was gonna say was, I mean, first of all, I like how groovy it sounds, and then on top of that really gross like growly bass. Um, I think something that I could have heard was when you, if you take out the chords at the 32nd mark, like Mark was saying, you could take out those kind of like. Uh, I don't know, just the chords, the groovy chords, and then just have the, the percussive base going. I think that could, that could be a good, I don't know, segue into a new section too. Okay. Yeah. I like the sound of that because it's like a, it's a groovy baseline sun, hun. It's, yeah. I, yeah, maybe, I mean, you have more, more melody than cyberpunk, so, uh, I think it would sound pretty groovy and kind of like, I don't, I don't know, like. Miami Cop movie. Nice. Okay. Well that'd be nice. You need to, uh, have a chat with, uh, Typhon. Typhoon's. Uh, I think he's on, he might be on the next. I know you are, you are on the next one. Uh, Matt. Suddenly, and I think Typhoon is as well. Uh, yeah, I I think you are. I lose track to be honest. I just keep clicking the button. Yeah. As like, as someone sounds, I not just me playing my own music chatting about it, that'd be very, um, self-indulgent of me. Um, but yeah, I, I know your music, you are, you've definitely got that like ra, gr it's a really bad way of doing it. I saw growly sound you got going on. Can I sample that? Excellent. I really like the track. Yeah, this sound is really good. Yeah. Really, really good stuff. Mate, you, I, I think I said this last time, I think you're definitely, you've got a particular sound and it's a really, really good sound because I know you mentioned synth wave just now, but you've, you've taken synth wave elements and you've sort of created your own interpretation of it, so it's different, you know? Um, yeah. Yeah. It's, I, I, I, I, I've always kind of thought the same thing as like, uh, I think you've got quite a unique way of, uh, putting, putting things together because it doesn't, it doesn't sound like anything else. Like the Dave kind of heard in the scene. It's like, uh, you've, yeah, you've, you've, you've definitely put your own stamp on it. Um, I'm blushing a little bit now. Yeah, I mean, I mean it's, it's, uh, I've got pretty strong views about the synth wave scene anyway. You know, there, there, there are so much sort of cut out on keep. The sort of tracks that are out there. I think it's, it's it's high time that there's, you know, a bit of variation that that's added into it and a bit of personality, and that's what I'm trying to do. But, um, I had a, I had a question about the, the, the melody. I dunno if you guys can remember now because it's, it's been a few minutes since we've, we've listened to it. Um, I, I always struggle with delay as well cuz I, I've got a couple of sounds that are going on in the background there, uh, in the, in the higher end that I'm not sure whether they're fighting. With, with one another. You know, there's um, there, there's kind of a, a, a kind of a main melodic center, and then there's this delay thing that kind of comes in out in the, in the background. Do you guys have any tips in terms of working with multiple layers of delay to make it work in a more seamless way? I. Are you timing your delay? Are you timing it to your track? No, don't be silly. I'm just throwing 'em in there and seeing what happens. That, that, that, that would be my first, uh, bit of advice would be, uh, time, the delay to the, to the track and obviously you can tweak it from there and then look at the feedback as well. The feedback dos quite powerful when it comes to delay, cuz that's gonna control how much delay feedback you get. Um, so that's another one. Another really good cool tip as well with delay is this, is, this is quite good with vocals is when you have like a, a, you have two delays. You might have one hard left, hard right, A one's quarter and one's eighth note delays. That's quite a nice way of doing it as well. But definitely start, start with timing the delay. Look at the timing of it. Um, trying to think of the best, most of the most delays you can sync to the track. I, because you can either see, you can either have it loose, so you can do it in millisecond or you can sync the delay to the track. That would be my first, that would be my first bit of advice. I dunno what anyone else, anyone else thinks. Yeah, I was gonna agree with you, mark on that one. Um, when it comes to, what I normally do with the majority of my sounds is I, when I add a delay is I do, is it the ping pong effect? So it goes like left, right, left, right. Has its delay in. But what that does is it kind of just spreads it out because if I didn't do that, it would just remain a stereo. And then as it's playing, it would just stack, stack, stack, stack and everything would just like, you know, it'd cause um, is it fear, is that what you call it? When it all stacks on top each. So, yeah. Um, try widening the di and it'll just sort of spread it out a little bit, um, in the, yeah. Surround. Well, nice one. Thank you. A couple of things, couple of things that I do is, um, I mean, I dunno what delay you use, but the delay that I use has, uh, has like EQ options on it. Um, so like I'll maybe like, uh, save, I've got like two parts, but um, or maybe have like some kind of crossover frequencies. Then I'll maybe like, uh, high pass out, like some, some of the, uh, some of the delay from like one of them to leave room for the other one. Um, And like, uh, like another thing that I'll do, maybe do sometimes is I'll actually side chain one of the melodies into the other melody, just to kinda like carve out like a little bit of space. Um, like, yeah, I, I don't know if you've got like a track spacer mm-hmm. But like that, that, that thing has been like a godsend for me. Um, If, if, if I've maybe got like two melodies, like one that's in a kinda slightly higher register and one that's in a slightly just, just like a slightly lower register, but there's some kind of crossover frequencies. Mm-hmm. I'll side chain the, the lower one into the higher one. Um, because like the higher one obviously, like when, when you do that, you'll still get like a little, little bit of the high like coming through. And, but it leaves more space for the, the one that's in the kinda mid, mid upper can arrange. Yeah. And like that, that's, that's something that I do just like to get like a little bit of separation between the two. I really need to figure out how to use track spacer. It's awesome. But I, I just, I keep dialing the knobs too, too far and, and then just some weird sounds keep coming out the, uh, the, the effect that I'm working on. But that's really good advice, guys. Thank you very much. Really appreciate it. Track spacer. I find that it works best if you keep it subtle. Um, don't dial it in too hard. Like, um, I, I usually keep it like around kind of 15 to 20%. I think if you go like too hard with it, then yeah, like, it just sounds fucking weird, but like, if you keep it nice and subtle, um, then I find that it's like, it's just enough for it to kind of cut through without sounding, you know, too, too overbearing. Mm-hmm. Fantastic. I'm glad you mentioned the compression side of things, Russell, cuz I, I was gonna say that as well, um, about compressing or side chain compression going into the, um, on the, if you got, if you use an auxiliary, uh, channel auxiliary channels for your delay, um, which I highly recommend doing. Um, fantastic. Excellent stuff. Love it. Um, so thank you very much. AB Neon. So we've now got the penultimate, uh, which is. Adventurer, uh oh. There's no title on it. Um, let's have a, a bit about this one, buddy. Yeah. So I am currently writing an album trying to do something. Thematic to Dante's Inferno and like the ninth circles of Hell. I'm, I write dark synth just to preface this, um, it's not gonna be like some chill synth about the ninth circles of hell, but, uh, this is supposed to be one of the, the last songs in the album, so it's gonna be pretty, it's pretty like aggressive and kind of intense. But right now this is kind of like the first drop in really crazy section and I'm, I'm just kind of curious about how I might, how I should. Continue with it because right now this is kind of the tail end of the section that I've written and I'm not really sure what to bring in after. Cool. Thanks. Space. I did listen to this earlier cause I auditioned the tracks to make sure there is audio there. Um, and you haven't just bounced silence, um, which has happened before. Um, and when I heard it at the end of it as well, immediate being a metalhead, it immediately grabbed me. I I thought you would like it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, um, let's, uh, let's listen to this one. Yes, mate, that, that ending got me straight away. Um, what, what I wanna hear on that ending is like a really, like, like some, some pig squeals on guitars or something. So like, so yeah. Actually that's another thing I was gonna bring up is that pause at the end. I want to put something, some like quote or something in, Hmm. I, I, in the most recent song that I've released, Two days ago. I already have like the knife shing, like the Shing. Oh yeah. And like a, a woman screaming. So I don't want to do that again. But if you guys have any suggestions on like, something kind of, kind of cheeky to, to add right after that breakdown, please. Oh, I go Hellraiser route or something like that, man. Like a proper hell Razr quote. Something like that. Like Jesus wept straight into the, straight, straight into that afterwards. Something like that, man. That would be, um, oh, that would be awesome. Yeah. That'd fit. Fit right into the theme. Yeah. Yeah. That ending is, is wicked though. I really, really like that. But I definitely, I know, I know what you mean. You kind of want something that really, a really strong quote to go in there. Yeah. And then I need to bring it back into synth because I mean, I, that's just a VST guitar. I can't play guitar, so I, I, like, I don't know how much I can fake, like how long I can fake a guitar, you know, in the song. Yeah. Without it sounding kind of goofy. You've pretty, pretty well so far, I think. I think that sounds amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I think one thing you could maybe try, I don't know if you, because I think you could either go two ways with it, really. You could either go really into the guitar and go, we're gonna go halftime. Slow it down. Really brutal. Break down, like really darn. Darn don't like, really like, yeah, marker. It's taken me back to my, uh, my beat, my beat down, uh, case or, or you could maybe like bring in one of the lead instruments, the, the sort of ape lead thing you've got on its own and then build it back into the synth bit and then go back into, back into the synth. I thought the exact same thing. I, I thought it'd be really cool to bring it down to halftime and then I thought it, I thought it'd be really cool to bring in like a kinda elite guitar melody, but like a really fucking sinister melody like on on lead guitar. I thought that would be really cool. Some sweetss actually, earlier in that track, I do have a, a, a bit of a sinister guitar melody, but I had to only put in 30 seconds. But these are great ideas. I thank you. I, I think I'm gonna, Yeah, I'm thinking when, if you were to bring solos into it, if you're bringing league guitar into it, you want some really interesting sort of like modes to use, like frigid mode or something along those lines. This is where you Yeah, like if you're not a guitarist, you, I, I couldn't even tell you what a frigid mode would be. I couldn't, I couldn't remember how to play a frigid mode right now, or Mixel, lidian or something like that. Some really interesting sound. It's gonna like, uh, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't use a mix of laine. It's mix of lydian happy. Yeah. Mix. Don't go. Yeah. Don't go with Mixel lidian then, or stick with frigid in that case. Exactly. Okay. Yeah, I can play with some, some scale modes. That would be fun actually. Yeah. Or like some like Black Sabbath, like doom, really long. Do do doom like diminished? Uh, fifth, yeah. Oh, so many options for the metal side. So many, yeah. Makes go listen to some metal. Now I've, uh, I've been on a proper, I've been on a proper metal binge of late as well. Like initially when I first listened to it, the, because we haven't really touched on the intro. You kind of got those, those haunting vocal samples in there as well. Um, quite like crad la filth, de muk sort of, sort of stuff going on there, which is, which is quite cool. Um, I think it'd be quite cool, you could almost like develop that a bit more, maybe at some point. Maybe. Yeah, that's a good idea. I I, I've definitely been using a lot of choir in this album and I think, yeah, maybe I could really just go all out and make some crazy choir melody that doesn't even, yeah, that, that would be cool. That would be cool. You can almost like start the track with that, and then it just goes really, then you just absolutely just rip into it and tear it up with like, loads of processing and stuff and make it totally obscure and stuff. And then end it with it again, going back into the choir. Yeah, I'll play around with all that stuff. Thank you. Did, did you say it was, so it's based on D and furo? The, the, the album, not the Al. Oh yeah. The album is based on loosely, you know, I just have like, Every song has to do with the one circle of hell. So I've, that's supposed to be like fraud. Ah, cool. I was wondering. Yeah, I, my, my plan is to make like a really long, epic song for treachery for the last song, but I don't know, like I, I've tried to write really long songs before. It's, it's a pretty tough ordeal. Hmm. It, I think trying to keep them interesting for a long amount of time. I remember when I was in the band and we write these songs, I think we had one song, which was about six or seven minutes long, and it never played the same rift twice. Yeah, I mean, that, that was, that was gnarly to play live and we'd always play it like 20 BP faster than it should be. Um, and it was, it's really hard to do to keep that listener interest along that for that amount of time. So, um, yeah, I'm with you on that one. But I love the idea though. Dances in fur sounds amazing, man. I think it's an album. That'd be wicked. Thank you. Yeah, I, I've got a couple songs already released for it. Um, but hoping, hoping that it'll be finished soon because, Yeah, I'm excited about it. Yeah, no, I, I love your work, man. Like, fucking, your stuff's like kind of top, top notch, dude. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. I appreciate that a lot, Jen. I'm, uh, I'm just, uh, before we move on, thank you f very much for that brilliant stuff. Uh, before we move on to the next one, I'm just on YouTube and someone's, but, uh, apologize if I pronounce this incorrectly. Canara, you forgot to empty the dishwasher before the pod man. Um, so some, somebody's, somebody's forgot to empty the dish. What's his name? What's the name of the person who said that? Uh, it's Duncan. Oh my god. That's my roommate. Fantastic. Um, brilliant. Excellent. Uh, that's the first life that's ever happened on the podcast. Love it. That's funny. Um, he's lying too. Cool. He's lying. Uh, so Russell, tell us about your song. Um, this, this, this one was just, um, something I was kinda messing about with, uh, I've been kinda messing about with, uh, the, uh, the GForce au oddity recently. And, um, I don't know, man, like, uh, that, that, that sense like, seems kinda like, kinda synonymous with like a lot of kinda sci-fi and kind of space, kind of, uh, like in a synth music. So like, uh, I was just kind of trying to write something that had like, that kind of vibe to it, like, uh, Yeah, just like in a spacey, spacey, synthy vibes. Um, and I, I, I, there's not, it's not really anything kinda like specific that I was looking for feedback on. Just basically just have a listen to it and basically if you've got any suggestions, then you know, I'm, I'm all ears. Fantastic Ace. Um, here we go. So this is, uh, Russell Nash, uh, working title Isolation. Cool mate. Um, ACE, my initial thought was when it comes, when it comes back in, uh, right at the end there cuz it, there's like a drop and then it comes back into the track as you've got that lead synth plate again. Yeah. Maybe like a slight variation on the actual sound itself, like a different Sure. Tomber of the instrument. That was my initial thought. Um, okay. Yeah. Would be quite cool to do. Um, that, that's what I initially, yeah, that's what I went with straight away. Dunno what anyone else thinks. Yeah, that second lead that came in, not the, not the like blade runy one that fades in. I like that lead a lot, first of all. Um, but the second lead, I, I was kind of expecting there to be a second phrase, but there, it kind of just stopped and then it came on again. So maybe, I don't know. Try something, try adding a little bit if, if you think it fits, obviously. Yeah. Yeah. No, like, um, like, like, like, like I said, it's, it's, it's, it's like, it's a work in progress. So, um, I'm, I'm, I'm definitely, uh, I'm definitely kinda open to like, uh, suggestions and like, uh, yeah, that's pro probably, probably a good idea to kinda mix the melody up a bit. It'd be good to include, um, uh, another hit hat as it's going. Cause all you've got, I think at the moment is obviously you've got the kick the snare. Yeah. And then it just sort of wears like, like that, like behind you just need one in the middle just to make the, um, it makes it sort of flow a little bit better, like sort of bounce, you know what I mean? I don't know. Okay. Just grabbing it around. But yeah, just like a, like a standard hit hat, just really quiet in the background and it just sort of like clamps everything together as it's playing. Um, yeah. I really like the sound of that lead there as well. I, I've not been brave enough to use a kind of a semi detuned lead yet. Um, the, the thing I was hearing was, um, just where the, the drum fill, uh, brings it back into the, into, into the melody. Um, I, I dunno if, if, if you like this or not, it kind of in a lot of space wave stuff, it kind of drops out completely. Uh, and only has like a sousaphone type. Base that, that, that is the only thing that carries the, the melody of the lead through. So that, that's the thing I was hearing. It was just kind of take the energy dry out to then bring it back in again. Um, okay. And I think, you know, um, guys like Helsinki project do, do, do that kind of stuff really, really well and everything. And I think, I think, um, yeah, that, that little bit of variation there I think would be really impactful. Yeah, no, like I'm, I'm, I'm open to that. Like, um, I mean, truth, truth be told, like that little Phil was just gonna, just gonna throw throw in there just for Yeah. Just, just for the sake of it. But yeah, like, may, may, maybe, maybe that would work quite well. Just taking it out altogether and just having, just, just, you know, John Cage in it, you know, just, just, just fucking silence and then bam back in. Yeah. Fantastic. There is, there's a comment on the YouTube actually from Vic West who says, space sci-fi and synth are meant to be together. Great vibe. So we go, Vic. Nice. Good. Yeah, Vic, I, uh, I was chatting to Vic earlier. I'm trying to get him on the podcast at some point. So, uh, he did say he was gonna drop in for the live stream, like fake Vic, like Vic, like fucking your music's fucking Dino, by the way. Fantastic. Agreed. Sorry, I was just looking at the comments again. That, uh, dishwasher one got me. Um, ACE. Brilliant. Uh, there we go. So now we come to the final one. So this is, uh, this is, uh, my track. So this is one that I, um, I started a couple weeks ago. Space on it. Um, it's really rough. There's some guitar at the end. It is actual, uh, guitar. The VSD I've used, I think is a logic stock one because, uh, my free trial of the, the Nly, uh, neural DSP ran out. So, uh, uh, yeah, I know. Thumbs down from carbon noodles. Yeah, it ran out. So I've got this, this heinous logic pro, um, guitar tone on it. And I think the lead tone's the same aside from the base. So any feedback on the bridge section, whether it works and then going into the outro as well would be great. Um, so yeah, this is, uh, a work in progress. It's called, uh, it says synth pop, but it's not actually synth pop. Uh, it's B flat major 97 B bpm, um, I dunno what you'd call it now. And yeah, the, the, the bridge section, it'd be interesting to see what people think cuz uh, I'm still. So I'm shaking my hand for the audience listening. I'm shaking my hand with a kind of 50 50 motion. There we go. Sorry. Abruptly cuts off at the end there. Um, so yeah, any thoughts, any interesting example? I wanna put vocals on this and I'm an unsure if it's gonna be male or female, so it'd be interesting to know what people think with regards to, to vocals as well. That was so cool. Sorry. Yeah. I I, I I ain't got me. Yeah, I know what you mean by, uh, ope in there. I thought that was really cool how it dropped out with the, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do what all great, uh, people, uh, do, and I'm gonna throw your feedback right back at you. I think it'd be really cool if you could, uh, add like a lead, uh, like a guitar lead when it kicks back in. It depends. It depends on like obviously what you're doing with the vocal melody and whether that leaves the room for it. But I think yeah, you could definitely, uh, bring, bring more guitar. Yeah, I think it's gonna have Lee Guitar. I've, I've, I've farmed it out to a guitarist who's um, hopefully gonna get something back to me soon, fingers crossed. Um, so yeah, it's gonna come in with lead at the end there cause it's part of an ep. And the EP is gonna have a, a lot of. Well, it's gonna have guitar on Almo, I think three outta four tracks now, I think in total. But yeah. Um, I'm glad you mentioned that cuz I didn't put that out there, so that's good to know. It's good to know that you think Guitar Lee Guitar. Fantastic. Thank you Mark, for the, um, for the bridge, oh, sorry, was going, sorry, I, I was, I was just gonna say is, is anyone else getting Metallica one vocals from, uh, one Vibes from it? Sorry, I wasn't, but I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna have to listen like the, the Metallica song one. Yeah. Yeah. You know what? I've been listening to Injustice for all as well for the past week or so, so that, that might be a part of parcel love. You've gotta do something. I've watching Metallica live in Seattle 1989, so, uh, Yeah. Yeah, it could well be there. Gotta get the breakdown at the end in, in there now. That's, uh, yeah, that's the mo, yeah, just over it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I really like that Opeth opeth, the, uh, guitar section. But I agree, I think with what Ka noodles said, um, having a lead there would be nice. Um, I, I could only think of. Like a Metron lead that like, like Opeth uses in their new stuff. But I don't know how, I don't know how, uh, effective that would be in synth. That's more like sixties Prague. No, I love the idea of a Metron. Um, I've recorded an album a few years back and we had a Metron at the end of it. Um, an actual, we were in the studio with a Metron, so Oh, that's really cool. Yeah. Yeah, it was really cool. Really cool. A great, I love that idea instrument. Yeah. Yeah, it is. It is. Got a good choice. Jim Beam. Um, no, I love that idea. I hadn't thought of a Metron or some sort of like vintage sort of sound like that. Um, no. Cool. Thank you. I made a note of that. Um, I was hearing like female vocals for some reason. I mean, I, I'm kind of contradicting myself, like when I said Metallica and then I'm the same female vocals. But yeah, like I, I, I don't know, like, uh, I, I think, um, I'm just kinda hearing a, kinda like a, a female vocal on top of that. Like I think it would sound nice. Cool. No, that's great, mate. Um, I think that's the way I was leaning as well. So that, that's, once again, that's good to, good to know. Um, yeah, ACE, ACE should, uh, check our, um, uh, ch Chelsea Rothchild. That's, that, that's her name. Like, uh, she's, she's like a, a female singer that's kind actively look into. To kinda like, uh, work on south wave tracks. Like she's, she's like a kinda rocked metal singer, like, like by kinda trade, but like, yeah, she's looking to like kinda break into the kinda south wave scene. So like, I, I think that would maybe be maybe something someone you should maybe kind consider given a yeah, given a shout to. I'm assuming we're, we're, we're sort of marketing for her now. I'm assuming she's on Instagram. I'll, I'll look her up on Instagram. I'll, uh, I'll, I'll, I'll send, I'll send you a link to her page later. But like, I think, um, I, I, I think she would work quite well with, uh, the, the sort of sound you that you've got going on there. No, that'd be perfect. Thanks mate. Um, if you could do that, that'd be ace. Thank you. Can you do pick squeals? Asking for my own music. I've got a friend who can do that quite well. I, I used to be able to do pinks, squares, but not so much anymore. Yeah. I've got a friend who can do it, but no, thank you Jens. That's amazing. Um, these are great. I love this. It's great getting feedback cuz there are so many ideas that you can take, not just listening to the feedback on my own stuff, but the stuff you said about other people's music as well and taking forward into my own productions, which is amazing and it's so cool having dif such a variety of different styles on here as well. And, um, No big thanks for joining me on this Easter Bank holiday weekend as well, um, which is amazing. I'm just gonna go over to YouTube. Um, Vic West has been on, uh, chat binge. He says, I'm old, but I'd really love a chug achuk before a power cord. I know what he means by that. Um, uh, that's a great way of describing it. Uh, yeah. Fantastic. Thanks Vic. Um, Jen, well do now is I'll just go round once again, a big thank you and. Just articulate where our audience can find you online, where they can find your music and find yourself. And also if you've got any key dates coming up, any releases or gigs or anything along those lines. So I'm gonna snake my way around. So sub neon, where can our audience find you? So, um, I've recently made my first website, uh, so all of my stuff is now, uh, aggregated at, uh, suddenly on.net. Um, so I'm, I'm, I'm mainly my active on Instagram, so, so yeah, th those are the two main places. The, the key date I've got is my, um, self-imposed release schedule of releasing a track every single month. So by the end of April, I'm hoping to release my sixth track, uh, which is called Dark Light. Fantastic. I like that deadline. I like that deadline. We're gonna keep you accountable now as well. Do you realize we're expecting to see you one every month? Um, fedora. Where can we find you online? Yeah, I'm mostly active on Instagram as well at Venter synth, V E N T U R E R S Y N T H, and I also have a link tree, which is just the same extension on that. I have a song that came out today or two days ago. Please go check that out to anybody listening. Uh, hopefully another, another song coming out in a month. I'm gonna try to follow sub neon's schedule of once a month, now that I have a couple things lined up, but we'll see if I can follow that as well. Fantastic. Just for the audience as well, what was the name of the song that was released? Uh, hostility. Hostility. Fantastic. That's for the Circle of Hell Wrath. Love it. That's such a cool idea. Um, and then down to Russell Nash. Oh yeah. Uh, Like my, my, my kinda all my stuff is on the Bandcamp, uh, Russell Nash music.bandcamp.com and that's Russell with two Ls. Um, you can find the rest of my stuff on, um, link tree.com um slash Russell Nash music. Um, the last single that I've released is, uh, a collaboration with, uh, ran, um, it's called, uh, galactic Warfare. Um, you can find that on my, on my bank camp. Lovely. That's great as well, man. Um, being in a guitar frame of mind at the moment, the league guitar on that is wicked. It's, it sounds so cool on that track. Um, carbon noodles. Yeah, there we go. Apologies. But you can, uh, yeah, if you like, uh, the little snippet you heard, you can find me, uh, on most, uh, if not all social media at Cameron Noodles, K a m e n, um, noodles. And then you can, uh, I've got a new single coming out next week, but not next week when the podcast comes out next week as of recording. So that should be out by the time this, uh, goes out called. Grow out via, uh, cozy Clouds music on the 14th of April. So, uh, yeah, that'll be out and check it out on, uh, any major music streaming platform, uh, under Cameron Noodles. So, yeah. And Liam? Uh, yeah, so you can find me, um, pretty much on any social media platform, just under Liam Leon, um, Spotify, mainly on Instagram. Um, to connect and I've recently joined, uh, TikTok, so I'm sort of putting out little covers here and there just for like a little fun side project. So, um, yeah, check them out as well. Brilliant Jenz. I will put all that in the, uh, episode notes, all those links and whatnot. Um, so the audience can go away and listen to those. And, um, once again, a big thank you for joining me today and, uh, it's been a pleasure. And please do, uh, subscribe or I say subscribe. Please do book yourself onto another one as well when you've got music that you want to, um, To share and, uh, get a bit of feedback on, or even if you just want to join and then just criticize other people's music and then just do that. Uh, it's all, it's all good fun. Um, but no, once again, a really, really big thanks and I'll catch up with you all soon. Cheers guys.