#70: Essential Tips for Remote Music Collaboration | THE PRODUCER'S PUB

We have a lot of tips for you in this week's Producer Pub episode.

We're talking about how to collaborate on music remotely. Collaborating with other artists can be a great way to enhance your reach and longevity in the music industry, but it also requires a lot of preparation and communication.

We discuss how to prepare stems for mixing. It's important that you don't just send a full mix over; instead, send individual tracks so that your collaborators can do their own thing with them. This will make it easier for your collaborators to add their own spin on things, too!

We talk about content marketing and how collaborating can enhance your reach. Collaborating with others can extend your reach and make people aware of who YOU are, which is key in this industry where longevity seems to be the goal for almost everyone involved in music creation. Consistency is key! 

Finally, we'll hear new music from Neon Highway, Sub Neon, and Aisle9.

CLICK HERE, to follow Aisle9: https://aisle9music.co.uk/
CLICK HERE, to follow Neon Highway: https://linktr.ee/neonhighway
CLICK HERE, to follow Sub Neon: https://open.spotify.com/artist/6mct0qUkr9NT0FnsERWCIP?si=kLvaIklqROWdW1zkzT4Cgw
CLICK HERE, to follow Thalrex: https://linktr.ee/thalrex
CLICK HERE, to follow Helsinki Project: https://twitter.com/HelsinkiProject

CLICK HERE, to listen to Neon Highway 'Lethal Weapon II': https://neonhighway.bandcamp.com/track/lethal-weapon-2

Transcript

0:22

This is Drew Knight and you're listening to the Inside The Mix podcast. Hello and welcome to the Inside the Mix podcast. I'm Mark Matthews, your host, musician, producer, and mix and mastering engineer. You've come to the right place if you want to know more about your favorite synth music artist, music, engineering, and production, songwriting, and the music industry. I've been writing, producing, mixing, and mastering music for over 15 years, and I wanna share what I've learnt with you. Hey folks, and welcome back to the Inside the Mix podcast, and this is the Synth Pals Pub the second one of the year. If you are a new Inside the Mix podcast listener, welcome and don't forget to hit that subscribe button. And if you're a returning listener, welcome back in this episode of the Synth Thas Pub. I'm very excited to welcome my guests today. We've got some returning guests and one new one today. So we've got Neon Highway, we've got Aisle nine, we've got Sub Neon. Fex and we've got Helsinki Project. Fantastic stuff. So before we get started, if you want to join me and my fellow producers at the Synth Powers Pub and feature on the podcast, you can go to www.insidethemixpodcast.podium.com. It's an excellent opportunity to expand your network, learn from your peers, have a chat, and share essential tips and tricks and bonus. As you can tell, every episode gets added as an episode of the inside of its podcast, so you get more exposure for your music. And you'll find at the episode end of this episode, we actually do have the opportunity to play some of your music as well. So in this episode, we're gonna discuss what should be established between artists when collaborating, and also touch on some content tips for 2023. So Jenz, thanks for joining me. Thank you very much. On this Sunday evening, for most of you, some of you possibly not depending where you're joining me from, how are we all? Good? All good? Doing good. Very well. Thank you. Lovely stuff. Great to be here. Fantastic. Yeah. Welcome Chris. First time. First time. It's, um, love. Lovely, lovely to see a new face. It's, it's good stuff. And we got some old, old furniture as well, so it's all good., um, you furniture, you shouldn't, you shouldn't talk about Carl like that. Yeah. Yes. Uh, we are actually live on YouTube, on Facebook at this point. Maybe we'll have more than the zero people. No, actually we had one person, um, who viewed last time a tell a lie on YouTube. So I've actually advertised on Facebook this time, so we might have more. Who knows. So if we get two of, you've doubled your, your viewers. That's good. Well, oh, this is it. Uh, we did have some interaction. Let's do it. Let's. Right Jed. So we're gonna kick off with, uh, the question. Now this was from hearts in beta or beta, however you wanna pronounce it. And this was in the Facebook community group from last time, and we didn't get round to it. So, uh, his question was, I'm hoping to start my first collab this year, 2023. I'm curious, is there anything that should be established upfront between artists before starting a CoLab now? Uh, it just so happens that we've got two artists here today who have collaborated. Uh, it's not like I planned this and, um, so what I thought might be quite good is to get a bit of insight. We'll have an insight from those artists and maybe, um, I'm not sure if everybody has collaborated with anyone else. So maybe some experience from those who are also looking to collaborate. Yeah, that'd be great. So if we start with, um, R nine and Thre, I know you guys have collaborated. Let tell us your song you collaborated on first, um, thre. How did you find the process and what is the song you and R nine collaborated on? Yeah. So, uh, we call collaborated on, uh, we come in peace, uh, last March I think. And, uh, , uh, what really happened was, uh, uh, I reached out, uh, through some random Facebook community, I think, and we got, got in touch and, um, and so, uh, I basically, I, I made some kind of, uh, some kind of contract that we signed, uh, ahead of time, uh, where we agreed to, uh, the, the rights of the track, uh, uh, where we could, um, distribute it. Uh, like, uh, he, he, he could have, have his version on his band, band, camp, et cetera. And, um, and, and what kind of royalty split we would, uh, we would have for the track. So, um, I didn't really know, know, and I, I don't, I don't. No, not really today, what's the right process? But that, I think that worked out, uh, worked out pretty well. Pretty good I think. Yeah.. Yeah. Cool. Thank you though. Right. Um, on nine, do you wanna, um, your experience? Yeah, well, I, I thought it was great cuz Thwa had sort of, obviously I think you'd done it before, hadn't you collaborated I think previous to, um, our collaboration. So you're, you're kind of, I hadn't actually done a collaboration, so I found it good that he was really honest and had a little contract and everything. I dunno, I think it kind of makes you feel, it should make you feel at ease. I think like that everything is sorted out like that you're not, you know, gonna quibble about it afterwards or find out that something is happening that you weren't happy with. And I think it's nice that that thing of being able to like, share it on your own bang camp, your own SoundCloud, that kind of thing. Um, YouTube or whatever. Um, but I think it's that sort of thing of if you. can see that collaborating obviously can really enhance your profile. Like your, you know, your reach, you reach. I mean, some of Thyre listeners will have heard of me through that remix and some of my, um, you know, listeners will have heard of thyre now. So it's, it's obviously it's kind of win-win situation really, as long as the music works, I suppose that's the real question, isn't it? Um, and uh, so once you've got all that bit out of the. and the next bit was like, you know, actually sort of touring and frame with the music and you know, um, THX sort of sent me some stems over, um, and then we kind of worked from there really, but like, you know, getting that bit right cuz I mean, lots of people work in different das and stuff, so there's quite a lot to sort out, but like as long as you get that bit right and, you know, um, the other person sort of, you know, you communication like all these things. But I, I, I thought it worked really well with our project. I really enjoyed it. It kind of came together really naturally actually. Yeah, I think it was cuz it was such a good tune if I'm brutally honest. You know, I, I felt like I got something that was really good to start off with, you know, that really does help. You know, you can imagine it and it kind of, you know, you are excited by doing it. I think if that would be my word of warning is if you get something or you, and you go like, I don't honestly light this word, don't really feel excited by this tune. It's probably better to pass or ask have you got another tune or choose another collaboration. But rather than push yourself into something you don't feel, you know, as a collaborator, I wouldn't do that, I don't think. But it's easy to sort of find yourself for both you guys. Did you not find at any point from say the inception of the fact, maybe even halfway through? Sorry, apologies again, I don't have a microphone. I don't sound, I dunno if I sound like I'm talking from across a field or anything here. Can you hear me ok? Yeah, I'm from the beginning or maybe halfway through that you had different idea of the musical direction for the track to collab on. Did did that happen at all for, for either of you guys? Um, fortunately with our one, I don't, I don't think we did, did we? Thorax it come, didn't it? It just worked. I think I point it interesting to me. Yeah, it did it, but it could have. It might not have is the answer. I've, I mean, I, I've did a, it hasn't come out. I tried doing something for another artist, um, a while back. Um, and um, slightly he was coming from a slightly different genre, more like melodic house, deep house kind of thing. And maybe that was the problem. Um, and I was trying to do a synth wave style remix of his track and he's a brilliant artist. I love his work. But I think, you know, it wasn't him being difficult. It was more like the, I think where I wanted to take it and the sound I was generating wasn't really what, he couldn't really get along with that. It wasn't really what he wanted. And so, um, you know, it just wasn't working. And I mean, we've left it at the moment having tried a few revisions and stuff and that is always a danger cuz you know, at the end of the day, I mean, I spent quite a lot of time on the project and it's not gone anywhere, but then I wouldn't want him to put it out, you know, unhappy with it, so, you know, didn't work. Yeah, actually that, that, that's a good, that's a good point because, uh, I remember, uh, when we did the collaboration, one of the points that I had in my contract was that, uh, we would only re only re release it if, uh, if I was satisfied with the, with, with the finished track. So I, I had kind of the, a quality control over the project. You could say that could be, but I also, but I also had a clause that, uh, if I decided not to release the track, we could agree that maybe Eye line could release it on, on, uh, like for his, uh, on his own band camp or something.. Yeah. Yeah. I've never really done anything with the other one in, in, in, in, in, in, in that sense. But like, um, yeah, yeah, good point Chris. I'm very, I mean, we're talking about music at the end of the day and you could go in so many different directions, even off, you know, there's four producers, one sample kind of thing. Mm-hmm. I find that, that kinda thing very interesting cause everyone can have their own perception of what a thing is within music. So I just find it very interesting that even from, from the beginning or anywhere within the track, you could not necessarily a clash of views, just a difference of opinion on what the perception of what you're trying to do with a track that you're collaborating on. So, I mean, I haven't done it yet, but I'd be interested to know, I mean, I'm sure coming come down to communication, you might have a difference of opinion, but you can talk about it and come up with some common ground. So, uh, I just find it an interesting process to talk with another musical mind for us. Yeah, so all very good points. Jens, I think what Fre said there about having that quality control is key cuz you obviously you're putting your name to something and then having that understanding and agreement in place that, you know, what if I don't use it, you can use it X, Y, z. And it's, I know, I know with, um, like CD if you really, if you wanted like a formal, um, contract per se, do you, I'm not entirely sure what your contract consisted of. I know CD baby had one. Cause I remember somebody approached me a few years back about a remix and I said, yeah, that's fine. Um, but I've got this contract in place that I, I want to go through and I sent it across, I didn't hear anything back. So that immediately I was kind of like, Hmm mm okay. Um, yeah, but if someone doesn't wanna sign one, it's a bit worrying isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did have somebody, uh, reach out on YouTube, um, and, uh, I, I'm supposed to passage them back and I didn't. Um, they, they've left a comment on one of my videos saying they like to remix it and I'm thinking, Like if I, I dunno, maybe if you were that inclined to want to remix it, like just get in touch with me on one of the social media channels. But it just actually I'm, I'm, I'm going off on a tangent here, just reminding me I really need to know this person. But do that . It's funny cause I'm sorry, what was that? Yeah, I said I'm still waiting on that reply Oh dear. Because I got, I got interestingly, I got one from Heartbeat Hero, actually. Like when I didn't know any of the kind of current people I know, I had no idea who he was. I was just on SoundCloud and he just like listened to my track Groovy dinner, which I haven't actually released on Spotify yet, but like, um, and he just went, oh, I'd love to remix that. And I just thought, who's this dude? Oh, I dunno mate. And I just thought it was a bit ropey and I'd like just was like, no, no, no hop be here. No way. No. And I just, I was a bit funny about it. I was a bit cagey. I was a bit like, what's he gonna do with it? What's gonna happen? All the rest of it. I mean now I know I wouldn't feel like that at all. I'd be delighted. So I might have to bother him again and like sort of get him to remix it. But like, you know, cuz he does great stuff, but, you know. Yeah, it was, I think it's funny if you don't know the other artist or you don't have a bit of a relationship with him, maybe it's fit, you know, I mean, Neon Highway said he wanted to remix something of mine. I would, I would, you know, I'd know to be worried, you know, it'd be alright. Yeah. What's, um, I, I've never, I, I've never done a collaboration such as, I mean, I suppose I've, I've employed somebody's, you know, the services to sing a vocal, but I wouldn't say that's a collaboration. But in terms of setting up that process, having not done it, what, what do you need to give Thor X to IO nine? What, what do you need to provide to him in order to do that remix? And is that process the same for anybody that's doing a remix or does it differ? Ooh, good question. Um, I mean, I'll, I'll hang this over to thorax and R nine in a minute, but I, I, I did a, um, a rather, uh, heartbeat Hero did a remix of one of my tunes ages ago and Ro Ode actually. And interestingly, that's was once, um, fantastic. One Silver. Yeah, it's good. Yeah, I appreciate it. Thank you very much. Um, but he, uh, the way I did it, I just, I, I rendered all the stems and um, I just sent them off so they're all exactly the same length so he could just then import them. Um, so when I say render the stem, obviously he didn't have my, um, my sends. You can't do that in logic, which is weird. You, I dunno if you can another dws, if you can render the send output, um, but in logic files where you cannot. Um, so it's just the stems and I sent those across and then he did X, Y, Z with them. And that's the way I've done it when I've, cuz I've only had, I've never remixed anybody else's work. They remixed mine. Um, Which maybe I'm just lazy in that respect. Probably should do. Uh, but yeah, so that's the way I've done it online. And thx, how did you go about it? Well, um, , go on. Yeah. You far away, far away. Thorax. Okay. I will, I will. Well, well, yeah, yeah. Yes, you start . Um, yeah, basically what I wanted was, you know, in order to do it was, is, you know, as you say, the stems, um, all from the zero point so that they , that's the worst thing. If they don't all come from exactly the beginning of the track, , then you can't line them up. So if they come from the beginning of the track and the, the, the difficulty sometimes is how much processing is on them. And I tend to ask. Not a lot of EQ and that kind of stuff on there, if, if possible. Um, it's tricky. We sent stuff because a lot of the time the projects, you know, the actual presets are gonna have loads of delay and reverb and stuff on them. But certainly if I got vocals or something, I, I don't want to have reverb or time-based effects on them. So I can do that later. I can cut and again, with drums, like, you know, if you've got a massive reverb printed on the snare drum, I'm probably just gonna find that it's gonna be a bit hard to use. Cuz if I do anything different with the track, it may not be right. So I often will want them sort of dry or a dry and wet version or something like that. So, you know, um, But equally, I think what Thre did, and I didn't realize he was gonna do this, was he, he gave me kind of midi as well and loops of things in in MIDI and and in audio, which actually I was a bit like, oh is this gonna work? And it was really good in because I was sort of, once I understood the sort of layout of the track, it was really useful actually having that. Um, cuz then of course you've just got the mid snared drum pattern and you can just go, alright, well I'll choose my own snare for this and put that in and you know, so that was quite a handy thing. And not everyone does that cause they just give you the audio and actually having the MIDI is quite useful I think, so that you can make your own sounds up without having to sit there and work out a part, you know, necessarily. So it's quite good, you know. Um, I was gonna say that, uh, or ask that question then Tim, with regard to MIDI because I didn't, I didn't render bounce, however, print the mid, however you wanna put it when I did it. Um, but I think. If I were to do it again, or if I were to ask or remix someone's project, I think the mini would be, it make a lot easier. Yeah. When it comes to replacing sounds. Yeah, totally. Yeah, a hundred percent. Otherwise, you always, uh, I always prefer, prefer to, to work in, in mid because, uh, if I, if I'm doing a remix of a track, I wanted, I want to imprint my sounds on the track. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So keep the same, uh, like you want to keep the, keep the spirit of the track, but in your own sound and, uh, in that way maybe stems aren't that useful. Maybe. I think we had something that was really good actually, the rights, which was, I think there was like your main kind of big, big synth sound, lead sound or something. Great. And I heard it as soon as I heard it. I thought, damn, I'm not trying to find a sound that's better than that. You know, I really knew I wanted to use that sound. You know what I mean? It was, it was really key to the track as well, but like, although you've given it to me in media and audio, the great thing was, We both had silence. So uh, you said, oh, I made it in this and just gave me the patch so I could just like load up the patch and then I could slightly change it or whatever. So if you've got the same sense that, that, I mean a lot of people now we probably do have like crossovers with some of the things. So, you know, a lot of people have got diva or whatever, like, you know, so if you've got those things then, then quite good to actually send the patch, uh, as well as the mid and then, you know, you've got a lot more flexibility. So, but yeah, I think the thing is to just be patient with the fact that may be toing and throwing and asking for this and that, and you don't expect, oh, I sent it all off and it'll all be fine. You know, it may not be, and people may need to and fro a little bit. So, you know, that's just the way it goes. Yeah. Interesting. Um, so neon yourself, I know you are, you are quite new to the, to the game per se, but I've gotta say that your, your productions are fantastic considering your, you've only just, um, I know you're a musician beforehand, but you've, you've caught sort of come onto the, the electronics in sort of scene, um, and you've hit the ground running mate, I've gotta say. Um, what are your thoughts on collaborations? Is that something that you are sort of envisioning doing this year or maybe next year? Yeah, I think so. I mean, I've, um, I, I've started a conversation withone about digital collaboration. We've actually exchanged a couple of, uh, stems. And I think, I mean that's, there's a reason why I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm quite keen on working with Clint Tennis cuz we, we've become quite good friends and I think that feels like an important element to it. I mean, I, I I get a bit scared about the whole thing about contracts. Um, , you know, uh, I, I, I'm still suffering from a bit of imposter syndrome at this point in time, you know, and I listen to Clint Turner stuff and I think. How am I gonna screw his track up when he, when he sends his stems over? Um, but, um, I, I feel I'm, I'm in a, in a position of a, with, with the kind of friendship that we've got now, which is great. Um, you know, to be able to say, actually, can we try this? Or, um, you know, maybe we try different snare for that particular sequence. Do you know what I mean? And it's, and it's, um, I I, I would like to take it forward. I've had a go, but, um, the stuff he's sent over, I, I've not quite got to work with the, the way that I'm, I'm, I'm producing at the minute, you know, he's got quite, quite, quite thick, very revey sounds that comes through and my stuff is really quite punchy and, and, and clean. So, um, it's gonna take a bit of work and we've, we've kind of put it on the back burner for now, but I think there's definitely an opportunity to work there together. It was weird actually, I, I got, um, uh, um, Uh, a message on Instagram the other day, um, because I posted about six months ago this thing that I'd, I'd done on Ableton note, which is like a, an app version of, um, of Ableton. And it was just like a, a five instrument loop thing. And, um, uh, what I, I got this, uh, request to say, can I, can I do something with, Uh, with, with the, the sequence that you put together. And I was like, yeah, go for it. Why don't we actually produce something in isolation? You produce something, I produce something that will compare and contrast. And I think that could be quite an interesting thing to explore, you know? So that was a really long-winded answer of saying yes, wasn't it? Uh, you know, no long-winded answers are good. Uh, cuz it gives me a lot time to think about what to come up with afterwards. So, yeah. That, that's, yeah. No, that's great. And this boils down to the monthly clin shouts out now that we we have on the podcast. I'm just trying to get him on. I I, I've been pushing, I, I, I tried to get my last year, but he's, he's a busy lad. Yes. Admittedly, Clinton sent me some stuff that I need to, I've got a fire. She's too busy. He saw and piece of wood, isn't he? uh uh. Actually, you just now response to anybody. Everyone just comes to you. I've got some ideas, I wanna do something. And you just ignore them. That's your thing. Is it? It, it is. I I, I need to, uh, these, my, my response time is getting longer, but it's, I need to, I need you are, I need to curb it. It's, um, yeah, I mean, better the cattle on the both end, I think they call it, my response time is just getting longer, full stop in life. So , yeah. Just a conversation Sub neon, the thing you said about, uh, doing like two separate parts of the track. Uh, that's really interesting because, so when I, uh, when me and, uh, venture made, um, the track ness revenge, it was basically just two separate tracks that we kind of merged together as one. I think you, you could maybe hear it because the style changes up in the middle of the track. So, uh, did you hear my, it's a killer track too. I was actually listening to it yesterday. Love that track. Did you hear the unofficial thing that happened?, which was, um, um, I've, I've, I've forgotten his name now. It's terrible. Like, um, artist who remixed me into, um, he mashed my Christmas 84 up with Kiss was the FM legacy vapes. uh, fairground. What's his, um, or fair? I haven't heard this with fake ground, wasn't it? Fake ground. Fake ground, yeah. Something. Yeah. Sorry, sorry. Forgetting his name. I've heard that. That's amazing. Yeah, it's great. You've gotta go and listen to it. He just, he contacted me. He did, he did a mashup and said, can I put this out? And I was like, yeah, man, put it out. I mean, not on streaming stuff, but I said like, put it out on socials and all the rest of it and then YouTube or whatever. And it's great though. It was just, I, I was kind of chuffed that he wanted to sort of mash me up. Like I've, I I've made it. Someone's done a mashup of me. It's great. With Kiss Nona. What, um, what, what Kiss tune was it? Uh, I, I, I'm a KISS fan. What Kiss Tune was. Damn, I can't remember now.. That's how much I took now. Oh no, I did. I really like it changed. Yeah. I'll have to find it. Yeah. Can't remember. It's a great one. Really good one. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Those, those are always good as you, as you said at the beginning though as well, it is extra like, um, what'd you call it for yourself? Um, promotion. And also, interestingly, this is, this kind of goes on nicely to a potential conversation that we might have time for about content creation is, uh, you know, sequenza, and I've put this in the chat a few times, so obviously Sequenza remixed my track. You and I did an tall disco remix of it and, uh, it's now here about 120,000 plays on YouTube. Um, wow. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I, I dunno how, I haven't, I don't push YouTube music in the slightest, uh, but it's, every week it goes through a peaks and trough. So it dips to about, I dunno, two or 3000 listens. Because it's not views. Actually, I tell her it's not views. So unfortunately, YouTube streams of your music don't count towards your views, which is a real pain because that means I cannot get to the 4,000 views. You need to then monetize your YouTube channel. Mm-hmm. But it's only if they watch the video. So if they listen, it doesn't count. But anyway, so yeah, I, I ever since Christmas, it's just going like that and it's steadily, it's like, it's crazy. And off the back of that, what I then find is the other tunes that I have aren't as, hav aren't having as many plays, but they're still in the thousands, the few thousands. But yeah, out nowhere, 130,000 views, um, listens in sort of Ukraine, Belarus, Russia. Um, you're big in Russia. Russia, aren't you? I am, I am. Um, it, it falls at a poor time, really. I, it was one of the countries I did wanna visit, but I don't know if now's the right time. Um, just watch out when you walk across a bridge, you know, and somebody with an umbrella comes towards you, but other than that, you'll be alright. I just suddenly did. You don't hear anything from the podcast?. Just find you under a bridge in just cuz he wouldn't pay us un certain person. These Jews. Yeah. What I do know what I do now that I got off to, to tangent here. Every now and again, I'll go on the video and then I'll see loads of comments in Russian and then I'll go on Google translate and I'll just start having conversations in Russian on these videos. Uh, most of them are good. Somebody did say it was missing a baritone voice, which I thought was quite a weird comment. Um, but, uh, each to their own, you know. Um, what time to be big in Russia?. I know, I know. It's, it is the most plays I've had on one song. 130,000. Um, it eclipses anything on spot on Spotify. Yeah. Um, But yeah, that, that was out. I didn't push that at all. The only stuff I really put out on YouTube are the, are the podcast, are the podcast stuffs, is the podcast stuff, rather, and some YouTube shorts every now and again. Um, but I, I mean, what'll be quite good now is, I think we've got probably about 15 minutes before we can forward play the tracks is maybe go into a bit of content creation cuz uh, that was the sort of the vote as it were in the Instagram, uh, chat that we have leading up to this. I thought we were gonna write a song with, with D a B, C and E in it. No.. It's not bad. I'm vote. I'm writing a song with that chord progression.. Yeah. Each of us should write a song with that chord progression and see, see what we come up with quite neon something today from our last chat about putting that progression into Yeah. Yeah, I was thinking . No, no, no. That's our collaboration. we're in. Um, but that I, it, I think it'd be quite good to see or get your experiences with, with contact creator. Now I know Matt, you shared in the chat interestingly that I think it was yourself, that you are in the marketing business, uh, outside of, outside of Sub Neon. Would I, would I be correct in, in assuming or thinking that Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I can't profess to be an expert in the whole, uh, music marketing. Uh, side of things. I, I, I market very, very boring industrial things that I would make you so bored if I talked about it. But a actually, I mean it, I, I am a, a card carrying chartered institute to marketing guy. Oh, wow. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm qualifi qualified. And, um, it's interesting actually because, um, I, I was speaking to, I'm gonna name drop Russell Nash again, sorry. But, uh, um, we were chatting the other day about, um, , um, we, we were talking about what, what works and what doesn't because, you know, I, I recent, recently released a new single and, um, it's probably not performed as well on Spotify as, as I would've liked. Um, and, uh, uh, I think. in that particular example. Less is probably more, you know, I mean, I, I, I look at someone like Dream Kid as a, a kind of a, a best in class at the minute, you know, and I love Dream kid. He's, he's absolutely smashing it. He's like a flag bearer for, for the whole synth wave movement. And he's come outta nowhere and, um, uh, you know, he, he's, he's connecting on, on a whole different level. You know, I, I think if I, if I put my marketing theory hat on, if you like, uh, and try and break it down as to what, what, what, um, buttons he's pressing. And, and it's kind of, I mean, he's, he's thoroughbred synth wave through and through, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's really, really strong. But he's, he's also really got that message around nostalgia. So he is, you know, targeting a very particular audience, um, who, who are connecting with the message that he's pointing out there, whether it's, you know, a, a piece of music about a cyborg. Uh, you know, coming back from, from the, the future to kill whoever, or, you know, he, he's got this little narrative to each of the pieces of music that he, he he produces. And, um, you know, he's doing really, really good stuff. And, and I think, but the problem we've got coming back to the point about the, the conversation with us on Ash is that the synth wave market, if you like, is so saturated the minute it's so difficult to cut through. Um, and, and that therein lies the challenge for everyone is what, what, where can you find your unique bit of your, your value proposition if you like, you know, the, the thing that, that you've got that, that other people don't, you know? And I'd be interested to hear what other people might think is what kind of angles that you guys are taking. I think to, for immediately for me, that one just set touch on that last point. is that I think a lot of people go for the same stuff, and you're right, since we've is, is completely saturated, but everybody goes for Top Gun Breakfast Club and, and all that. And there's nothing wrong with these things. They're absolutely fantastic. I mean, heartbeat Heroes getting incredible track called Breakfast Club and it's got a bunch of breakfast club samples on it, but everybody goes after the same stuff. So I think for me, I that I, if I'm wanting to deliberately be nostalgic and tap into that nostalgia, which ultimately those are the ones that get more views and more listens, I, I kinda sway away from the more, the more popular ones. Um, and that's, and that's just sort of touching on that last point that you made there around, around the culture and around, you know, how do we sort of stand out? I think. You're right. It's not doing the same as everybody else. Uh, I've seen a great comment from Drew Knight recently saying, don't just jump on with your poly six and start doing the baselines cuz everybody's been doing it. You know, musically, that musical representation, it sounds great. It's amazing. There's a million songs like it and your song could be fantastic, but just don't do it because everybody else is doing it and you're not gonna stand out if you jump.. Yeah, I, uh, I, I would agree with that. And I think going back to what Sub Neon said there, going right back to what you said about, about the dream kit side of things. I think if you look at the way he's done it, it's not just the sound, but it's the visual that goes with it as well. Like he's fully invested in that nostalgic appearances of nostalgia. Um, and I've seen others do it and I've seen others sort of take it and put their spin on it and do it slightly differently to varying degrees of success. Um, admittedly I know, but I, I think that there's another one, sunglasses kid does it as well with regards to that, and he, he the stuff, he comes out with this so good. Um, and, and like with, with, with that success, . It's, it's tricky because that works for them and I know they're, they're smashing it out of the park with numbers and stuff and I mean, it's not all about vanity metrics and like trying to get all the x amount of followers and whatnot. Obviously it does help, but I think I, I, I saw, I agree with what you were saying there, card as well with like you, there, there is a, it can get a bit formulaic I think sometimes with regards to what people, people are using to push their music. Now, listening to like all your guys' music as well, I wouldn't say it's necessarily strictly synth wave either, correct me if I'm wrong, you know, um, which I, I would definitely say I'm a fan of. Yeah. I, mm-hmm.. I'd definitely say that, that, that for me, I know I don't naturally just fall into a genre or any genre very easily. My musical influences are too diverse, so I will tend to go in different, different directions. I try to stop myself going too off, off path and to keep it with a call that makes sense with whether it's synth way, sy pop, kind of, you know, thing. But like, um, at the same time, I don't want to restrict my creativity, so then I sort of need to work around that with marketing. To try and find people who, that is their jam. That kind of is what they like. They actually enjoy the diversity. The fact that I might be a little bit left field sometimes and they don't want me to just be, you know, um, writing sort of like outrun tracks, you know, that's not what they want. You know, they've kind of moved on from that and they kind of, you know, I mean, don't get me wrong, I, I completely, I mean like, you know, I mean, someone who I absolutely adore is ING's stuff, or Essinger. I think his stuff is amazing and like one of the, someone was talking about albums the other day. It was one of the only few albums of Synth Way that I could actually say I really liked was one of his like, you know, I don't really listen to synth wave albums, but I like, it's just the whole journey and it's great. It's funny because he strikes me as somebody. in his way. He doesn't do an awful lot of advertising of what he does. I mean, he's, he's not very public. Uh, I was like trying to find interviews, I was trying to find stuff and it is more like, just like almost that persona of kind of like keeping back and just writing this incredible music, which everyone was like, where's this coming from? Um, I'm not saying that's gonna work for everyone, but, you know, um, I think the product's gotta be really good. That's the, I mean, you probably, that's a marketing 1 0 1. If the product is really good and you really believe in it, Then you're, you're gonna be able to get people interested in it. But there's something that I would be interested to know what other people think is how seriously to take yourself. Because like, you know, do you think of yourself really, seriously? I'm an artist. I am, you know, I mean, like, you know, Essinger doesn't crack many jokes, you know? I mean, like, you know, it's like an all his pilot, you know, and he wears a fucking helmet. Um, no, but like, you know, it's, it's, it's weird isn't it? Like some people are really quite serious about their music and like, you know, you get this kind of serious sort of persona. And some people, um, maybe like myself, um, don't, don't take it themselves so seriously. Although their music is serious and what they do is serious. So I don't know like quite whether how to fall on that, whether your own persona, cuz I think your own persona does sell or not sell work. So, you know, um, or, you know, um, engage fans or not engage them. And I, I can't quite work out where, where to sit with them. Yeah, I do see some people really trying to push themselves, um, and trying to build following and then see other people who don't seem to say or do anything online other than they respond when somebody retweet. A song or repost a song or something like that. Like there's so many artists that don't seem to put themselves out there at all and they have their music everywhere and they've got massive amount of monthly listens and stuff like that. And I be sitting back wondering, cause I'm actually, this week in particular, I'm, I'm just hired from trying to think of ways to mark up myself or who I should talk to and stuff like that. And I, I've been looking over the last, say, two weeks and people who don't seem to promote themselves at all, but have a great following. Like, say Essinger for example. I never see him post anything but his, his music has a massive following as to a lot of people. And I, I wanna know what they're doing where they don't have to do anything on social media, but they're out there and they're getting heard. So it's very.. Hmm. Yeah, I think that's exactly it. It, it, it, I think it comes down to that. It must be the, like, the quality of their music. And also it's gotta be word of mouth as well. I mean, going back to what you said there, Tim, about like how serious to take yourself. I mean, I'm a, uh, , I don't take myself seriously at all. I'm post and stuff online with your head in it. Once I Yeah, yeah. I, I see something and I'm like, yeah, I'll love a go at that. And then I, I do it and, and then I put it out and, and what, what, what's happened for me is that like I do most of that for the podcast now, and then when I release a tune, I'll put more effort into like promoting that. But what I find is in doing that and put my fa my face out there and like, not really, not, I do care about the way I become across, but like at the same time, I don't take myself seriously. I do get a lot of engagement, which is probably. Um, in terms of dms, which is probably why it takes me quite a bit longer to respond is cuz I've got so many things to respond to. Um, and it's usually just like someone laughing or something along those lines. But I'm, I'm very much in the camp of like, not taking yourself too seriously. But I think it all comes down to you as an individual and whether or not you wanna put your face out there. Because I think when I started the podcast, and I think when I started producing as well, when I was in the band, my face was, was out there and we, we looked stupid and stuff, but when I first started the podcast, I didn't wanna like, have put my face out there. I just had like a silhouette. I know what I was producing. And then at one point I was just like, you know what, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna let people see my face and then it kind of snowballs from there. But You like that Lumi beer?? Yeah. It's the floating head. The floating head is, uh, Russell calls it. Yeah. Um, , it's, I I'd love to know what this their secret is. Is it, is it done to longevity as well? Maybe it's because they, they were there. Cuz this, this is similar to a conversation I had with, with sunglasses kid, whereby he said there was sort of like, there are, uh, not, it's not hierarchy, it's a generation, a generation of producers. And he was there sort of like the beginning or maybe the, the second generation of producers around the time of Michael Oakley as well, in that they were there then and haven't been there. Then they've then amassed this following that really just sort of keeps itself going and it just, every time they release music, they've got that established. Audience. Uh, whereas now when you try and do it, it's harder because there's a lot of us doing it, you know? Yeah. It's more soaked, isn't it? I, I talked to Chris Kia who's, um, you know, I mean he's got a great following and like, you know, um, he's, I dunno, about a hundred thousand monthly listeners or something now. And is he been on quite a lot of the Spotify sort of, um, you know, actual official playlist, sort of outrun playlist and you know, and I did this track dying son, which is collaboration when we were talking collaborations earlier and did that sort track with him, really enjoyed doing that. Um, and um, Uh, you know, I was really tough to get to work with him cuz I, I, I think he's, you know, uh, a phenomenally sort of, um, you know, uh, sort of respected, sort of, you know, um, producer. And so it was great to do that. Um, I, I was just asking him what he, you know, is there a secret? What is it, Chris? You know? And he, he just said consistency. He said consistency of making your product, putting it out there, doing, you know, he said, I don't do anything different than anybody else. I put it on all the playlists. I go through all the sort of stuff, but I'm just very consistent. And I, I think that was all he could really give me. And he said, I, I, I wish I could give you some sort of magic formula or something different, you know? But that is honestly it. Now either he is hiding. or he is telling the truth. So, you know, um, I, I think I, I think there is a point there, you know, I, I, I can see that consistency making sense. Um, and it is hard to be consistent and maybe that style as well. I, cuz his style is quite consistent. That sort of his slightly crosses the sort of cyberpunk kind of, you know, sense wave thing and he kind of keeps hitting that, you know, whereas, I find it harder to stick to a more consistent style. So, you know, maybe consistency is key, you know, um, perhaps, but he did start in that earlier wave though of synth wave, like you said, mark, you know, and I do think he came out an into the whole scene as a lot of other people did at a time when they, it was branching out. There were very few names in it initially, and now there are a lot more of us. So, you know, harder. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I think you're right And I think it's there, there is a lot and I think I haven't interviewed. Well, I can't remember the last time I actually, no, it was, the safety world was the last artist I interviewed, and that was back in November. And I don't think we discussed it then, but I remember previous discussions I've had and it, it has centered around that. There is, there are a lot of, um, sort of synth based producers and, um, I think consistency is, I think Z Vortex is a, is a, is an example of consistency as well. I mean, that dude releases stuff all the time. Um, he's always releasing, he's always doing something musical. There's always something musical going on, whether it's release or it's, uh, it's a live mix or something along those lines. I couldn't keep up, um, with, with everything that I do, and I'm just making excuses now, but I don't. But in terms of consistency, I know someone like yourself, um, Carl Neon iWay, you're, you're pretty consistent with your releases. I mean, you're re release'em pretty consistently. Pretty consistent. I mean, last year was really good to, you know, there was a one every month, sometimes two in a month. And I agree with that whole consistency point. I've, I've had a bit of a break since then, but it is sort of, Is, it's, it's been organized and, and planned. Now, I, I don't, I can't rush something out. I can't go, I need to write this today, finish it tonight and get it on band camp tomorrow. I need to know that the music's right. And then I, going back to the content point and going back, going back to the content creation I really enjoy. Then, ah, the music's done great. Now I can have some fun. I can put some visuals together. What's really gonna engage people, you know, what, what's gonna draw 'em into this track? Or tell them a little bit of a kinda story visually about this track, you know? And, uh, I think that's really important. Getting that right, getting the, the text right, that you're gonna fire up and whatever social media, get your hashtags in there and it's, it's enjoyable. It's, but then once you've done that, you're right back to, right the next track's coming out and yeah, that consistency that definitely worked last year. I just need to get my finger out and do it again this year. Well, this segues quite nicely into our next section then car in terms of consistency in new music. Um, you see what I did there? I set you up for that. So I've gotta test to see that the music works. I'm assuming you all heard that, uh, was it quite loud? Yeah. All right. I'll turn it down a bit. Let's try that again. Is that better? Still loud. I mean, it's pretty attention, Greg. Yeah, it's not too loud.. Uh, we'll roll with that. Um, one thing I was gonna say is, uh, folks listening, audience listening, um, the, this is live. Um, I'm just gonna quickly jump over. We've had one like on Facebook, what's better than last time? Um, we've had, we've got one concurrent viewer. Hello viewer on YouTube. Uh, whoever you are are whoever you may be, rather get my words mixed. Feel free to put something in the chat. Hello. We've had two views on YouTube. It's better than last time. It's, it's prob it's probably my mom, Auckland tone. Totally worth doing that video as well. Two hours well spent as well. That video is great, man. Um, I've expecting that every time we're on the podcast. Now you video. Oh yeah, just one. Be your Russian friends. Oh man. I didn't know how to say I was learning Russian. Uh, like basic Russian. Uh, I didn't know how to say hello. I know how to say. No, it's yet, that's it. But that doesn't help me, um, in this instance. But anyway, I digress. Soak, um, Paul Leon Highway. Do you wanna tell us a bit about Lethal Weapon Two before I play this tease. Yep. Sure. Um, I was like, what tracks have you got lined up? Yeah, . I'm glad you reminded me. So at least I went into, um, a released Lethal Weapon last year because it come back to that point, everybody was doing Breakfast Club and you know, all the other ones I thought, no, I, I actually don't know anybody that's done Lasal Weapon yet, and it's one of my favorite films. Me and my wife watched every 23rd of December. Um, so that, that was the, I felt, let's least a weapon track. And I had a lot of Easter eggs in it. I tried to incorporate parts from the soundtracks of the movies. Um, the length of the track was three minutes 56, which is a, a, a real geeky Easter egg reference to three William 56, which is Martos police car cold saying. Um, so people, people really responded to that first track. And, uh, Russell Nash jumped on it straight away and he was like, when second one coming out, I was like, mate, I don't know. I, I'm, I'm not doing a second one. And he kept badger on me about it. I said, do you know what? I said, I've written this little thing. I said, what do you think he mean? That's perfect. He's like, go over that. Go over that. So legal Weapon two has been kinda boiling away for a wee while. Um, so I think I've finished it about four months ago and just, I've been sitting waiting on it, getting released. And it is also exactly three minutes and 56 seconds song long, just like the first one and that reference to the movie. Nice. That is one hell of a reference, man.. That's brilliant. I love that. That's fantastic. All right, so here we go. Uh, it's not gonna be the whole track, but it's a teaser. Let's give this a play. If you don't hear anything, please do holler. Otherwise, I'm just gonna be sat here thinking you can hear it. Hey, we got there eventually. Lovely stuff. Cheers. Sorry about that girl. Oh God. So good. All right. Does my editing this platform sometimes? I'm sorry. I like that one. Yeah, that's, yeah. Yeah. But what are you using for the base, the base app? What are you using? Uh, you're using probably six. This is when I finished it four months ago, but I probably was mastered on it then. So probably finished it eight in five months ago. So, oh God. What was it? I am pretty sure it would've been diva. Um, diva's, my, my kind of go-to sy and, uh, threw an ARP on it. And then I, I do, you know, the baseline was completely different. And then I actually stumbled and fell on my keyboard one day and I must have been running it at the same time with the a going at a lower Octa and my fingers hit the higher Octa and it just created the sound. And I was like, whoa. I was like, that, that works. That's bro. How did I do that again? And then kinda recreated it from there. So the baseline kinda almost fell in by mistake. Literally. Nice. Yeah. I like that man.. I like that. I, I, I just wanna say that I think my, my, uh, slight fuck up on the, uh, on the sounds then as meant we lost our view on YouTube. So , you're so fired. You're so Oh, my thanks. Uh, I, I'll gonna be writing a sterly worded letter. I, I'm gonna send a letter, actually, I'm not even gonna email. I'm gonna send a letter to this platform. I'm gonna send you an email to ignore. Now, mark. You the one on the back door. Oh, brilliant. So leave, leave the weapon out is is out Friday, the 17th of February. Yep. Yeah. Fantastic stuff. Uh, folks listening, I'll put a link cuz this will come out after that date. Yes, it will. Um, so I'll put a link to that in the, in the episode notes. So what we'll do now is, thanks God. We'll move over to Matt sub Neon and just tell us a bit about your track, pretend that we haven't actually heard it already, Um, go for it. Okay. Um, so this, this will be my, uh, fourth release. Fourth release, no fifth release. Wow. I'm, I'm, I'm actually making some progress, which is fantastic. Um, I, I'm really ex excited about this and, and actually I'm not bored of this one by the time it's being played to anyone, so that's, that's a result. Um, it, it's one that I'm actually, feels like I'm finding my sound. A little bit. Cause I'm not really a a, a died in the wool synth wave artist by any stretch. You know, I've, I've, I've got so many different influences from different corners and this one, I dunno, I was messing around with massive, which is an amazing synth by the way. Um, and, um, I've got my little mixing desk here that I've turned into, uh, a, a tool purely for modulation and mucking around with oscillators. And, and I came up with this wow noise and I just threw it into it, into a track and, uh, this is kind of the results. So, so yeah, I'm really excited about it. Fantastic. Thanks Matt. Yeah. Massive's brilliant, isn't it? I've recently started using Massive again. Um, um, sometimes are probably diving into it and see what's in there. And then there's massive x I've never worked out what the difference is, isn't there? There's massive, massive, I've got massive x Yeah. Hmm. But I never, always get worried a difference. I look at it and go, oh, no. Is it something weird gonna happen if I choose the X one? No, I won't. And go back to massive . I, I don't honestly know what the, the fundamental difference is between the two. I don't really use massive. I've just, uh, been a main user of massive good sense. But, um, yeah, yeah, that, ah, pigments as well. Anyway, uh, my digress. Let's play this song, uh, like, pretend like we haven't heard it. Let's, uh, so this is, uh, Nice. Uh, I really like, I was paying proper attention to it this time. Um, but I really like that one. That's great, man. You know what it reminds me of in the naughty when you had the, uh, particular like, um, detective TV shows from America or something like that and they like the intro theme to it. Okay. It kind of, it gave me the, it's the, um, it's the wild, wild that sort of sound, and then the uh, the sort of melody you got going over the top of it. You can tell I don't sing, um, over the top of it. it kinda remind, it reminds me of that sort of sound. I'm trying to think of a TV show. I can't think of one off the top of my head, but I love that. I really like that sound. You got there that um, wow, wow. Sort of sound. There's some really interesting sounds. Yeah. Nice. There's some stuff that reminds me of like 48 hours Steakout movies in the eighties as well. It does have that little bit of nostalgia, but only if you're familiar with it. Otherwise, it just sounds production's incredible, mate. Honestly, your production's, I love the snare. Yeah, I love you. You got the snare right, which is a major achievement in life. You know, I've been working on that for, oh know, snare for, for nine months,, and I've not, I've not touched the settings here. and Andy, you've got that really nice thing between, it's my, it's my first step., go for it. No, go on. I was just like, between the, the, the first snare and the second I was gonna one. Yeah. Oh, . There must be delay. Sorry. The first snare and the second snare. Yeah. I was just gonna say, um, I'm a bit half cut now. Sorry. Um, , um, it was, it was my first step into, into proper sound, sort of sound manipulation, because that Wow was, is quite a boring sound in, in massive, but chucking a wire pedal in there. And, um, uh, automating the, the, the heel toe and the envelope and stuff like that. It's, I'm really pleased with myself anyway, so, uh, but thank you. It, it's called Yo. Which is Japanese for Spirit. Um, and it hopefully is gonna come out sometime during the course of March. Fantastic. Lovely stuff. Keep an eye on that. Once again. Um, I can do, I'll do it retrospectively. I can put it in the show notes when it's released. Um, no. Brilliant stuff with massive. Um, I've got some, some patch packs. I'll, uh, I'll dig them out. Uh, I dunno if the, I'm assuming you can use them in massive if you haven't got massive X and I'll fire 'em over mate, cuz they have some fantastic sounds in there. Um, yeah, yeah. Lovely stuff. All right. Uh, last part, by no means least, uh, Tim, oh nine, let's tell us about the, uh, the song that we're gonna play. Wow. Wonderland, um, is what the title of the song and, um, you know, oh, I'm gonna be giving my carefully planned marketing all away by doing this. Um, yeah, but like, uh, basically, um, it's. It, it kind of came off of the, um, Wonderland murders, or fought to the floor murders. Um, that happened in 1981, Laurel Canyon, um, in, uh, like, uh, and there was the film, boogie Knights kind of came off that as well. Um, but like, um, sort of, you know, a tale of these, you know, four, um, people who were sort of killed like in a, a drug sort of, you know, thing. And it was like also the porn star, John Holmes was all involved in that and all that kind of sort of stuff. But it's, it's really, I I wasn't kind of all, all interested in all that, that, that so much as like the end of the seventies. And the peace and love movement and the beginning of the eighties and it sort of was that pivotal moment. And this kind of a, was a bit of a sort of pivotal thing. The kind of death of like one thing and the birth of the kind of different drugs and different music with the disco sort of thing hitting and all that kind of stuff. So it was just like one of those kind of things that influenced this track and made me write a track. I think, you know, whether the track entirely, you know, has that, but it's definitely got, it's pretty frenetic. It's kind of quite sort of dark and. Dancey, but you know, so it's got that, um, that devil on the dance floor thing going on. So, you know, that's where it came from. I think so. Um, but, you know, um, yeah, you've, uh, hopefully it's, it's a good track, but it's, it's taken age. He's trying to write it and like, I hate it now suddenly on, says he still likes his track. But no, I've just like, you know, yeah. I've listened to it a lot, so I'm trying to, trying to re regather the track and go I like it again cause I've just listened to it too much. But I, I, I, no, I, I'm pleased with it, but you know, you know what it's like you, you get to that point where you just like mastered it and mixed it way too many times, but Yeah. Yeah. So, so it was, it is. It was, it was good. Just don't ask me to sing it live at the moment cuz like, there's not enough gap for air in any of it. But like that , I keep, I kept writing lyrics that I couldn't really sing all at the same time. But yeah, it was good, good fun. Fantastic. Thanks. D before we play the song, I just wanna say, um, heartbeat Hero is watching on YouTube. Um, hello, uh, Dan? Yeah. Um, just, uh, I did message him and say that we, he referenced you previously in this episode, Um, he, uh, yeah. And when it comes to playing music, he is the , the pinnacle compared to me, um, on these platforms. But, uh, yeah. Thanks for dropping in buddy. Uh, so let's play this straight. This is Wonderland, uh, by, oh.

3: 58:07

00 AM in the Canyon, 1st of July, 1981 Wonderland Avenue, unidentified the shopping. Cool. I'm not gonna play old boat. Don't, don't wanna sport too much. Yeah. Yeah. Together to the chorus there mate. Very thanks. Great. Yeah. Yeah. Got got lit. Anticipation. Built the anticipation mate. Uh, that was great. Um, as always said, the, the kick drum you got in there and the low end. Very, very nice. Very round. Um, very nice. Thank you. What do you, do you use one kick drum sample? Do you augment? No, I don't. I I use kick two actually most of the time. So that's, if you've ever used kick two, it's a weird sort of thing cuz you, it's more like a kick drum synthesizer, you know, you can, you sort of take a sample is often the kind of basis of it, but like you can kind of change the envelope, you know, really do everything with the uh, with the drum itself, so it kind of tune it and everything. Yeah, it's quite, it's quite good. So I often use that, but I will sometimes line samples with it, but sometimes not in this one I spent ages lining a 7 0 7 kick as well to it. And then, Went, no, I don't like that. And caught in a bit, you know, you know, so, yeah. Yeah. So sometimes I'll layer them up, but kicks often don't work that well. Laed, I think snares definitely do snares. God, yeah. Yeah. I spent forever trying to get the snare right on that. And it's still not as good as sub nails. No. Yeah. So there we go. Yeah. What, what was your vo, what was your vocal process in Tim? The, the kinda the kind of vocal stuff going on? Yeah, it's, it's funny, there's actually not a huge amount of volcano. There's quite a bit of some filter. On the vocals, like all the time, running on, on bits of vocals. Um, like, um, and there is a t vocoder line, which is sort of like, you know, um, going like just a little bit going underneath it. And then, you know, there's just the fact that I can't sing and there's lots of water tune. Yeah, yeah. Other than that, nothing else . Yeah, no. So it's not as, it's not as, um, it's not as sort of vo code as it might sound like. I think the filtering sort of doing a bit of that kind of slightly resonance and the vocal. Yeah. Yeah. It's cool. Yeah. Sounds good. Oh, thank you. So, very good. Very good. Thanks Jen. Uh, I think this is really cool. You could probably, hopefully it may turn into with the synth pals, uh, pub, um, that it might, if, if, if everyone were to bring a song along, it would probably be an episode in itself and just like, play their tune and then just pick bits out of it. How'd you do this? How did you do X, Y, Z? Maybe try dedicating it. Maybe we'll try dedicate an episode just to. sort of listening back to people's music and offer a bit of feedback and, and, uh, just pick it apart a bit in a, in a, in a positive way. I think that's quite a cool thing to really interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think Tota mentioned that to me a while back, so I'm not gonna take the credit for that idea. Um, , she mentioned that to me ages ago, and, uh, once again, I've got a long list of things. Um, but let go back to the YouTube stream. Uh, heartbeat Hero says Wonderland exclamation Mark. So I'm, I'm assuming he's a fan. Oh, good. Um, which is, which is good. Yeah. So hopefully, uh, we'll do this again in a month's time. I'm hoping that I'll actually have a song myself. I'll be able to play in here, which I'll be quite excited about. That'd be cool. Uh, yeah. Yeah. Quite very nice. I'm hoping to, it's now, it's gone past the, actually I tell a lie. I've just got to finish some Tom's and then it's gonna be a mixing stage. I've done all the editing and whatnot. Um, when it comes to vocals, it takes me ages cuz I'm really finicky with both. You want to talk to Thre because I've still not got a better Tom sound than Thorax is. Like, it's, it's like every time I go, I write something, I'll go like, Damn. I should have used those ones that he wrote in, like, you know, ah, not, they're great. Great. Tom sounds, yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Uh, uh, actually, I I didn't know that, uh, that you would be playing tracks because I, I actually have, uh, have a new track, uh, that I've been working on myself.. Oh no. Communi people. Uh, you must have missed the, uh, I put the link in the, uh, next time.. Next time. Yeah, sure. Next time we'll do it. Yeah. Hundred percent man. Foreign to me. I like to hear it. Yes. Um, so I'll do what I usually do. I'll go around and give you the opportunity just to, so where individuals can find you online if they are listening to the podcast for the first time. Um, so let's start with a Helsinki project. Where can our listeners find your music online? Oh, I'm a little bit of everywhere now. Um, on the usual spots, uh, I'm on YouTube now. Spotify are, um, iTunes, apple Music, all unusual spots. Uh, I have a track out only as of last week, which is a follow on from the ep, the point of, so something similar but a slightly different, uh, angle on it. Uh, have a listener, people's thoughts on it. So fantastic stuff. As always, folks, audience listening, I will put all these links in the episode notes. Um, so you can go and wear and listen at your heart's content. Uh, neon Highway. Um, we've got at Neon Highway since on Instagram, and from there you've got Link Tree, uh, linking out everything, basically. Uh, Lisa of weapons coming out 17th of February. We've got another Blade Runner track coming out the 27th of March, and now I just need to keep writing and keep that consistency going. But yeah, at Neon Highway since Yes, played runner, man. Looking forward to that, uh, sub. Uh, all the streamers and, uh, it's sub underscore neon neon at most social platforms. So yeah, uh, at sub sub underscore neon and, uh, you'll see the ramblings that I put out on a daily basis. fantastic. Uh, thre. Yeah. So, uh, you can find, find all my music on, uh, Spotify, apple Music, SoundCloud, Bandcamp, and, uh, uh, all my social media links. Uh, you can find that, uh, uh, link three slash tare. Uh, I'm mostly on Instagram these days, uh, at tare, uh, music. Uh, yeah. And I, I also watch, uh, I, I'm working on, um, uh, producing my, uh, my very first album. So I'm hoping to be announcing something soon. Yeah. Brilliant. Nice. Looking forward to that. Looking forward to that. Hmm. Yes, yes, yes. Lots of collabo.. I hope so. can say something yet. Yeah., I think we were talking a while back about you collaborating with, I'm not gonna mention, uh, a vocalist, um, which I'm quite looking forward to here hearing. Uh, Tim, where can we find you? You can find me most places at online music. Um, you can find me at, uh, oh, 19th Wave on Twitter if you happen to be on that stupid platform. Um, and, um, you know, you can find me on the even TikTok I believe, but yeah, I'm more of an Insta person than anywhere else. But like, no, just hit me up on any social you want. Um, and, um, can I just have a big shout out for the 25th of February in Bristol at the Fleece Dusk Waves? It's going to be amazing. And then there's, um, um, Boulevard, whatever it is. I dunno, something after it. Like I always forget the name of it. The, the thing that is going on afterwards. Sunset. Sunset Boulevard. Sunset. Sunset Boulevard. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's the one. Um, and um, that's going on afterwards. Uh, rough trade, but like, yeah, no, come to Dust Waves. If you can make it to Bristol that day, it's free and loads of synth wave artists and I will be performing live and you can come watch me and buy a t-shirt. Um, yeah, no, so it should be a great event. I think loads of people. Zach Vortex, you mentioned earlier, the endearing, um, since we 83 and a u w who are actually the host. So fantastic. Should be good. And I have Wonderland coming out the day before on the 24th of February, and uh, you've just heard how. Interesting that is so, um, go and, uh, uh, you know, pick that up. That'll be on all the um, uh, streamers and, uh, it will be on, um, you know, my band camp as well. And, you know, use band camp if you want. It. Be fantastic cuz it's, um, supports us all, doesn't it? So it's great. Yeah. Thank you. Great. Brilliant. Thanks Tim. Yeah. Get along to that. Uh, on the 25th, I, I'm gonna be there myself as well, and I'm not performing. Yeah. But I will be half cut if not more in the crowd. You will. Uh, heck and Tim . So, um, you, you, you'll see me. Yeah, you'll see I'll be the person who's Mac can stop working. Yeah.. I'll be the one at the back laughing. So, who's 2012? Mid 2012 Mac Bookers . Oh, mate, you are, you are bold doing that with a 2012. Um, but gentlemen, I, I'll we'll, we'll call it that. Yeah. Get along to that on the 25th. This now puts me under pressure to get this episode out before then, so you can actually hear that. Um, but yeah, I'll, I'll be there and, uh, just, uh, yeah, come and say hi. If you see me. Hopefully you'll recognize me. You might, you may, may not. Um, you'll recognize Tim. Otherwise you'll be talking to Ben Affleck, the West Country, Ben Aflac. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Excellent. All right. Jens, uh, we'll call it there. Big thank you for this today. Thank you very much and I will catch up with you all soon.