#64: 6 Music Production Tips I Know Now That I Wish I Had Known Before

In this episode of Synth Pals Pub, we're discussing what you know now about music production that you wish you'd known when you first started out. Topics include: try before you buy, why you should be patient with progress, is music theory necessary for songwriting, whether AI mastering is any good, why balance in mixing music is important, and whether should you mix in mono first. We also listen to new music from Legacy FM, Sub Neon, and Aerowolf!

To follow Aisle9, click here: https://www.aisle9music.co.uk/
To follow LegacyFM, click here: http://Instagram.com/legacyfmvibes
To follow Sub Neon, click here: https://linktr.ee/subneon
To follow Aerowolf, click here: https://bandcamp.com/aerowolfmusic

Transcript

Color Theory: 0:22

Hello inside the Mix podcast fans. This is Brian Hazard of Color Theory. I'm a synth pop slash synth wave producer from la. If you'd like to get to know me a little better, subscribe to email updates@colortheory.com and I'll send you five among best songs. And with that, you're listening to the Inside The Mix podcast, and here's your host, Mark Matthews.

Marc Matthews: 0:44

Hello and welcome to the Inside the Mix podcast. I'm Mark Matthews, your host, musician, producer, and mix and mastering engineer. You've come to the right place if you want to know more about your favorite synth music artists, music, engineering and production, songwriting, and the music industry. I've been writing, producing, mixing, and mastering music for over 15 years. And I wanna share what I've learnt with you. Hey folks, and welcome back to The Inside The Mix podcast. Now, this is the Synth Pals Pub. Um, if you are new inside the Mix podcast listener, welcome and don't forget to hit that subscribe button. And if you're a returning listener, welcome back in this Synth Pals Pub episode. I am very excited. I say this every time and I do mean it. I'm excited to be joined on my guests today. We've got Legacy fm, we've got I L nine and we've got Sub Neon, and we've got Arrow Wolff. If you want to join me at the synth powers virtual pub and feature on the podcast, just go to inside the mix podcast.podium.com. As this a great opportunity to expand your network and learn from your peers, this is what we're gonna do today. And as you can see, if you are wish, uh, watching this or listening is bonus, every session gets Ed as an episode of The Inside The Mix podcast. You get more exposure for your music. So today we're gonna discuss the one thing about music production, you know, now that you wish you'd know when you started out collaboration. And we're also gonna look at how to grow your audience. Okay? And then we're gonna play three songs from three of the artists who've joined me today. Gentlemen, thank you for joining me today. And how are you all? Yeah,

Tim Benson: 2:26

I'm good. Good. Very

Sub Neon: 2:27

well, thank you.

Tim Benson: 2:29

Hopefully not too loud. Good stuff. Awesome. I keep my meters

Marc Matthews: 2:35

No, no. You're okay. Tim. I was just gonna say this, um, is actually going live in the Facebook community group, so I'm just seeing if that's happened. Um, and it doesn't look, no, I think it has. I think it has what you

Tim Benson: 2:49

mean. Facebook's actually working. Wow.

Marc Matthews: 2:53

Well, it's certainly working on YouTube. Excellent. Uh, but whether it's working in the Facebook community group is a different thing. It's, uh, sorry folks, I'm just gonna see this. This is, this is why you, you, you should plan these things properly. Start test. My video is starting. Let's see if that works. Oh, not gonna spend too much time on that. So. Questions. The first question for today's episode is this, and this comes from community group member Nick Plain, aka Blockhouse. And he asks, what is the one thing about music production, you know, now that you wish you'd known when you started out? So I'm gonna repeat the question just to give you a bit of time to think again. What is the one thing about music production, you know, now that you'd wished you'd known when you started out? Um, let's go, Tim, do you wanna take the, uh, take this one

Tim Benson: 3:48

first? I can try. Yeah. Um, uh, I th God this is, this is a bit legacy really, cuz like, um, I, I, I'm going back to when I first started doing music production, the one thing I wish I'd known was that ADATs were absolutely shit and that no one should ever buy them and that computers were gonna become, As amazing as they are at doing audio, cuz I bought tons of like AAP machines, if you know what an AAP machine is, sort of eight tracks of digital audio in the sort of, you know, you can just pile them up so you could get 24 track, 32 track, like, you know, digital audio. And I was running a studio at the time and I spent tons of money on AAP machines because I was convinced the computers were still too dicey to do the job. And within about six months, half the AAP machines had gone wrong and were costing me a fortune. And then I'd had to go and buy new light computer and all the rest of it. And you know, gradually I got rid of all the a DAP machines and they just cost me an absolute fortune. So I think it sort of might seem un not very up to date, but I think it's that thing as sort of like sometimes being like sort of, you don't want to necessarily go with the trends always. It's like, you know, I've got a microphone in front of me that was an annoyment tlm. Which I've been using for the last 20 years, 30 years or whatever. And it's a great mic and it's gonna continue to be a great mic, but like it's that sort of thing of you never quite know when you're about to go and waste your money on something completely useless. Like I bought a Ovation, sort of like supernova at one point in my life and now I've probably got plugins that do the job just as well and probably better. And it's, it's that sort of thing. You can't really, I don't think you can kind of know it. It's in retrospect that you kind of see it, but like, you know, to go like, no, that's not a good road to go down. That's gonna cost me a fortune. And really actually I need to just. Use the tools that I've got and learn how to use the tools that I've got really, really well. So I think that's really the point I'm making. Uh, but like, that was an example of it, but, you know, was the, you, you can't, you're bound to make mistakes as well. But like, I think that you have to kind of, maybe that's part of it, is accepting that you do make mistakes and that's fine and you move on, you spend thousands of pounds on something utterly useless that becomes a sort of, you know, stops the fridge dooring. But, you know, it's, um, it's, it is, it's one of those sort of things like you, you can't always get it right in music, but like, yeah, I think sort of learning to use the tools that I've got in front of me really well is, is the thing I wish I'd kind of cottoned onto maybe, uh, some points when I was still gear hunting and thinking if I have this preamp, if I have that, if I have this. And I think that was never the answer. So there we go.

Marc Matthews: 6:41

Yeah. Nice. Thank you Tim. Yeah, kind of, um, Kind of explains or, or it's that idea of like, if trying to accumulate gear to make something better when you haven't really mastered what you have in front of you, you know, and thinking, oh, I can't get this right. I'm gonna go and buy something else. Yeah. And I'm gotta buy something else, you know? Um, until, until you, until you can get it right. Um, which doesn't really work. Ada is that light pipe, if I remember rightly, is that the small

Tim Benson: 7:09

Yeah. You now have That's quite, very thin. Yeah, that's right. Ada Optical comes off in, in light pipe and that's still used now a lot for, to sort of, well, has been used, but like, um, you know, just transferring, uh, sort of, uh, digital audio. Yeah. But like, you know, a adapt machines were actually VHS style. Um, in fact, you could actually use a vhs, but like, and put the tape in and it was like a sort of eight track DT machine. It recorded. Eight tracks of audio on a, um, on a, on a tape, on a VHS style tape. But you could hook lots of machines together. So you could have, like, they were modulars, so they'd all sync with each other, but they had like complicated transports and things, and they would just go wrong., like really easily. And they didn't sound that great either. So, you know, and you didn't have all the joys of like hard disk where you can just hop all over the place. You know, you, you were still on a rewind. Fast forward, put a locator in play. But, so it was, it was, it was a long winded job, but I was just at that cusp when analog was dying and digital was coming in. So it was that kind of thing where I think people, computers weren't quite up to it, that sat in the middle, but, you know, um, but now thank God we don't have to worry about that We can do it all on an Apple M one or something. Yeah. Well you can, you, you have one? Yeah. A nice shiny one.. I

Marc Matthews: 8:36

do, I do. It's bigger than you think as. I thought it was gonna be quite small. It, it doesn't sound are we're still talking about the computer here. It's, um, . I was gonna say, that could sound quite weird cause if you took out a context,, Legacy FM: so I, I have a follow Would you, um, opus, would you say that it's a lot easier now for just anybody to pick up and start making music and producing and mixing and all that compared to, you know, prior to the digital transition? Yeah,

Tim Benson: 9:05

I, I, I think so. I mean, . I think other things are complicated now. Like, you know, I mean there is a, like, you know, the level to which you're expected to be able to grasp software and grasp all these different things and they keep changing and you've got a new thing. It's, it is quite a speed, isn't it? And like new things to be able to upload to this and all the, all the kind of social media and all the kind of things that you are expected to be able to do has mushroomed, you know, all you had to do was get something down on a tape and go, there we go. You know, sort of thing. It was, it was sort of simpler at one point in one way, but I do think the route in is easier. Yeah. Yeah. A lot easier. You know, you can have a laptop interface, headphones, bit of software and be making music. Yeah. So I guess it is easier. Yeah. Making good. Music's never easy though. Is it Really?

Marc Matthews: 9:59

Now that's a great question. Uh, great question Mark. So it is one I always ask when I talk to engineers on the podcast who've been in the game for quite a while. For example, today I was talking to, um, Mike Exeter, uh, black Sabbath and, and Judas Priest. So he's been, he's been around in the industry for a long, long time, and I asked him the same question about how he got into the music industry and how he found his feet and cut his teeth, and how different it is today to do that. And it is so, so, so different. I mean, I, I don't have the experience of of entering the music industry back in the nineties, but it's so accessible now. But light Tim said there is very accessible, but actually creating something decent and, uh, that, that, that's the, that's the key. That's the key. You can have all the technology in front of you.

Tim Benson: 10:48

You've, you've gotta break through. Yeah. Go on. Tim. I guess a lot of other people making music at, you know, you've gotta be at a level or doing something better than that. And the level's quite high, isn't it? People expect quite a lot, I suppose, you know, so, um, so that's hard as well, you know? Um, but friends

Legacy FM: 11:07

in high places

Tim Benson: 11:07

goes a long way. Ah, well, yeah. Yeah. That's always helped. Yeah.. , yeah. There's

Legacy FM: 11:14

a lot of, uh, pretty average music out there that gets pretty popular, like, okay. Y yeah. Yeah. Not, not to throw shade on anybody

Tim Benson: 11:21

else, but No, that, that's always true, isn't it? That there's, there's, yeah, and there's, there's always people that sort of seem to do very well and you go like, really? Is it because your music's that great? Or is just, yeah, you knew the right people and had the right connections in the first place. So

Marc Matthews: 11:38

yeah, it does vary. and a, and a fair bit of financial backing. Mm-hmm. Um, it doesn't, uh,

Tim Benson: 11:45

it doesn't go miss, it doesn't

Legacy FM: 11:46

go miss either. I bet you we all had unlimited resources. We'd all have multiple albums out there of

Tim Benson: 11:51

them. Oh yeah.. Yeah.

Marc Matthews: 11:52

Yeah, exactly. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Although well, yeah. Although you could say in argument devil's advocate today, if you had all that money, go back to what you said earlier, Timmy, in that you'd have all that cash and you just end up spending it. Yeah. Spending and spending it on shit. Shit you don't need. And you just end up with a load of stuff on, um, ST's boat. I think ST's having a bit of connection. I'll just buy your, hopefully you can make it back.. Tim Benson: I don't even Interesting studio. Yeah. Yeah. I think someone's done that before. A yacht studio. Yeah. Ah, have they? Yeah. Well there's, there's a, uh, there's a boat in Bristol that's been turned into a venue, which is uh Oh really? The ler. Mm-hmm. Dunno if any of the UK contingent here have ever been to, uh, What have you been to Bristol? Uh, yeah. Look at the fact I've, I've, I've went, I've been there for a couple gigs. Mm-hmm., it's when you've had a few beers. It's quite disorientating, , uh, cause it's not quite even. And, um, yeah, but good, good fun, nonetheless. Of course. Great stuff. Uh, thank you. Thanks Tim. Go, go on

Tim Benson: 12:52

Tim. No, I was just gonna say, Floyd of course had a, had a barge, didn't they? So, um, Dave Gilmore's studio. On On the Thames. Yeah. So, yeah, boats. Boats can be a thing. Does that still exist? I don't know that honest answer. I don't know if he, he still does records there or not. Yeah. I thought

Marc Matthews: 13:09

about a canal boat. Um, but then again, too narrow. I think you end up with a lot of, um, standing waves and stuff. I think in the canal

Tim Benson: 13:16

boat. Yeah. It couldn't even put your, not wide enough for your speakers. Really Narrow stereo image. No, no.

Marc Matthews: 13:23

I did toy with the idea. This was when I was, um, when I was, when I was at university and I said, you're right. Let's think of an inventive ways that I could get into the industry. Cuz you wanna be, do something different. I toyed with a caravan for a while and I thought about having a caravan studio and just like going around as a mobile service and I was just like all the, like the gear I've got in, in a caravan, I, I dunno how safe it would be. I mean, you could punch a hole through a caravan wall. So not that I've done that, but I'm sure you can. Yes, I'm sure you can.. Um, . There you go. All the answers. Wanted to test that. Actually no, don't do that. then that I'll come back on me. If you did

Tim Benson: 14:01

that, I could question Random a hole for a car. Caravan, musicians running around, punching holes through caravans. Right? Okay. Hmm. Yeah. Is that a facts of the day? Yeah. Yeah., Marc Matthews: you're You can't punch a hole for a caravan.. Um, right. Uh, go back to the question. Um, cuz I realized we're already already caught of an hour in this is what I was saying off there is the fact we probably have one question. Don't, don't ask me anything. It just takes too long.

Marc Matthews: 14:58

Um, so going back to, just to readdress what it was, what is the one thing about music production, you know, now that you'd wish you'd known when you started? And I don't think it really matters how long you've been producing cuz we're always learning. Um, so let's go what, what about yourself, sub Neon, one thing about music production, you know, now that you'd wish you'd known right at the beginning.

Sub Neon: 15:18

Well, right at the beginning isn't too far , uh, uh, ago in terms of, uh, electronic music. I started in August. Last year, um, I was in bands prior to that. And I guess, um, one of the things that I was, uh, ha having to, to teach myself is, is patience, really. Um, you know, when you, when you're singing in a live band, it's all really instant. You know, you, you set up, uh, and, and you play, you break it all down and you go onto the next gig and everything. Um, but, uh, now, you know, I, and I put a lot of pressure on myself when I'm, when I'm producing. Um, and the, the, the first couple of mixes that I ever produced were dreadful, you know, and this is before, um, uh, uh, I, I've started using Ableton. I started using a, a, a platform called Acid Pro, uh, which is, um, uh, just loops. And, uh, I, I hadn't heard of an eq, didn't use an eq, and it was all just a wall to wall mud, you know? So, and, and I'd get really frustrated about it, but actually through the, the community that I've, I've, um, uh, you know, which is one of the best things about producing music in, in, in, in this time is that, you know, you can build friendships and critical, critical friends more than anything else. I think that, that will give you the advice that you need. But I'd give myself a real kicking, you know, this is rubbish, and I, I want it to, I know what I, what I, what I want it to sound like, but it's just not getting there, you know? So, um, o over time and over many, many, banging my head on, on the keyboard thinking, how can I get that base to work with this other sort of EF effect? Um, I've, I've just started to give myself a little bit more, Breathing space, you know, if it's not working now, leave it for a bit, come back to it and, and, you know, you've got a good chance of it, um, with a fresh pair of eyes or a fresh pair of beers, more importantly, um, to, to make it glue together, you know, so that, that would be my lesson to myself. Just, just chill out a bit and, and have a better patience. You'll get there. Yeah., Marc Matthews: yeah. Words. Words. I think that's exactly that. And I think it's something that, yeah, exactly. It's something that we've, um, mentioned many times on the podcast in, in about like having, taking time and stepping away from a production if you, if you're struggling with it, and also just not being too hard on yourself and thinking you've gotta have the, the final product there. And then, you know, it's, um, and as you mentioned there, it's, it is great that there is such a wealth of support and information. So my, uh, the sort of a follow up question to what you've mentioned there is what, so you've, you've started, uh, producing sort of last year. You were in a band before. Is there a single sort of resource or, or something that has really helped. Spearhead your production process? In terms of, in terms of quality output, you mean? Yeah. I mean, it's really bouncing snippets of tracks to people that I've, I've made a friendship with, you know? Yeah. And, and they, you know, you listen to their stuff, you know, I'm talking about, um, you know, Helsinki, project Clinton, um, Russell Nash, you know, the, all these guys, they're, they're not only are producing first rate music, but it's also, um, you know, they're more than willing to, to pay it forward, you know, and, and, and take you through some ideas as to what you could do to make that sound pop a little bit more. Russell Nash has spent hours with me, uh, bouncing messages to and fro saying, reduce that that sounds down by two db, and see what that does, you know?, have you, have you thought about doing some mid side, uh, EQ in there? Uh, and at that point I was like, what's mid side EQing? You know? Uh, so, uh, all the way through the process, I've been just picking up little bits

Tim Benson: 19:02

and things. Wonder where Russell got that from? Uh, I,

Marc Matthews: 19:07

I do wonder where he got that. Yes.. It's, it's, it's . It's brilliant that you mentioned that suddenly on because, um, it's great to hear you mention those names. Like you got Russell Nash, you've got Clint Tone, Helsinki project. Uh, I've been trying to get Clinton to on this show, um, and Helsinki project for a, for a while. Um, I Lovelin tone stuff and Helsinki Project and Russell's as well. Russell, for the audience listening has been on the podcast. Good. Tell you what number, but he's been on it. If you wanna have a listen to that episode. Um, I'm gonna say he's in the twenties.. But yeah, it's kind of, it is cool to hear that Russell's giving yourself advice. Cuz I think, I, I think you can attest to this, Tim. Yeah. I remember when Russell started producing and I remember bouncing back and forth with Russell. Yeah. And listening to mixes and, and offering feedback and stuff. So it is really cool that he's got on, I mean, he's, he's, he, he releases a lot of music and he's done a lot. So it's really cool to hear that. Dunno

Tim Benson: 20:01

what you think too. Yeah. No Greek. Yeah. Cuz Russell was, um, Well, Russell and I still talk quite a lot, um, but like, you know, he'll, he'll sort of in when he was beginning to sort of, I, a sort of similar time to me I guess, but like in terms of releasing, but obviously I've been doing music production since the nineties. so quite a long time. But like, um, but yeah, no, Russell was just spinning things back and forth with me all the time and like, you know, and it's great. I love that. I love that in the community. Full stop. I, I spin things back. I'm regularly sending you stuff Mark and talking and you know, like other producers and I mean, yeah, it's a really great side of it, isn't it? And being able to do that, because we are in the kind of point in time where we've all into connected all across the world is, is crazy. You know, I, I sat on, um, uh, what was it on? Oh, not on Twitch, on, um, oh, that other thing that I continually forget about, um, that everyone's on, um, Discord. Yes. That's the one. Um, yeah, I was on Discord. Yeah. Um, with, um, uh, FEX in an actual like sort of room where he was busy, sort of as it were, mixing his stuff and creating something, and we were just like chatting through it and making suggestions and he was changing the arrangement as we went. And I was like, this is crazy. This could have never happened, but like now we can just like, have this rapport, you know? It is great. So fantastic thing. Mm-hmm.

Legacy FM: 21:28

It's like being in the studio, being over to look over somebody's shoulder and be like, oh, that's how you do that, or that's how you use that. Yeah, that's, yeah. It's,

Tim Benson: 21:35

it's a wonderful tool. It is wonderful, isn't it? Yeah.

Marc Matthews: 21:40

I, I did, no, you could do that in Discord. I'm gonna have to look into that. I didn't realize that

Legacy FM: 21:43

was a thing. That's basically how Legacy FM works. It's one other person and, uh, yeah, we're, we're cutting a lot of our stuff in Discord. Then we send the files back and forth to each other. Um, yeah. One of us ends up with all the. The stems and does the mixing and stuff, but Right. Yeah. Almost exclusively done in Discord.

Marc Matthews: 22:01

Right. Fantastic. Just for the Audi audience listening, thre will be on the next synth Powell's pub, uh, in February. I just like plugged that. Awesome. As would Neon Highway. He's gonna be making his way back. Yeah.

Tim Benson: 22:13

Carl, yes. He's been doing his will tour.

Marc Matthews: 22:16

He's, uh, off on his Jollies.. Yes, he has indeed. I

Tim Benson: 22:22

can't wait to hear the story. Not a musical tour, but it's a, you know, , he has been, been, been having an amazing journey.

Marc Matthews: 22:32

Yeah, it certainly sounds like it. I think he's, I think it's well overdue for him. Any anywho. Um, let's move on. So, yeah, just to readjust the question again, one thing about music production, you know, now that you wish, you know, when you started. Uh, what about yourself? Uh, we've got air. Ferol Stu.

Aerowolf: 22:50

Yeah, I think, uh, yeah, apologies, uh, for my, uh, technology's I had to do the quick That's alright. Switch on the laptop. So this one seems to be doing better. Uh, yeah, rilliant. Yeah. I think similar to Sub Neon, I think with, with me, I think it's the mixing, um, which, which is something that I would've liked with known when I first started, you know, using production back in 2020 properly. Um, seriously. But, uh, yeah, it's, it's like using compressors, EQs, uh, various different types of EQs. Um, and, and also music theory. I think if I went back in time, I'd say I give another slack and just say, you know, brush up on music theory. Um, cuz I think that helps tremendously. You know, you're always referring to things when I'm, um, producing, uh, mixing stuff. So, um, yeah, I think those have been the two main things, mark, to be

Marc Matthews: 23:36

honest with you. Fantastic. Yeah. Um, I, I totally agree with that. And I think it's, It's, I, what, what I find is, and I've had this conversation with a few, um, audio engineers as well and there's a lot of information out there with regards to mixing and mastering and it's trying to find the ones or the, what suits you. Cuz there's a lot of different flavors with regards to it. And there's more and more I find, I dunno about you guys when you go on social media, there's a lot of, I mean, I'm guilty of doing it. I know I put posts out there with various production bits and pieces, but it's kind of like there, there's a wealth of information out there. But I think you just, at times you need to be a bit careful. I think. I don't, are any of you on TikTok by any chance? I know tit., uh, we've got a few nodding heads. Yeah. Mark. I use now one

Legacy FM: 24:22

thing all the time, but Do you ? Yeah. And, and Otherly producers. There's like London noise or something. I don't know. For some reason I'm in this UK group. Uh, I can't seem to find any American synth way of ours. Wow. But go where the quality is . I do follow a lot of those tips and that's kind of how I'm learning just on the fly as I'm mixing. And it's, it's been tremendous. I really appreciate it.

Marc Matthews: 24:44

Yeah. Yeah. There's, there's a lot of, um, cuz I kind of flick between Instagram and TikTok, but what I'm noticing a lot on TikTok now is there's a, there's a, you probably, you could probably find it, there's a thing where there's like an incoming stitch and it's just audio engineers calling each other out and everything. It's nuts if you, if you go, if you dig far enough, you'll see it and., they're stitching cuz you can stitch other videos and then they'll just call each other out and say, no, that's not right. And it, it's getting a bit wild west out. Right. It's, I'm waiting for someone to Yeah. I'm waiting for someone to, uh, find one of my old ones and be like, no, that's not right. Well, yeah. Um, but I think that goes back to what I said earlier about like, finding information with regards to mixing production and stuff online. Um,

Legacy FM: 25:26

yeah, I, I go out and seek information on specific topics usually on YouTube or, or like a forum. But then I love the ones that just hit me in my feed on Instagram where it's not something I'm looking for, but then I go try it and like, oh wow. And then you just go down a rabbit hole. You're trying new things. Yeah. And kind of changes your game up. So sometimes it's the info you're not even looking for that, that stands., Marc Matthews: do you have, got like a saved folder and it's just full of music, production tech that I should really go through. Um, and I will at some point by like, like you, it'll just come up and I'll be like, oh, I like that. I like that, I like that. And then at some point I should really go through it. Um, I'm probably not the only person who does that. It's got a whole saved fold of music production techniques. I was

Aerowolf: 26:11

thinking it's, it's also sometimes it's the simple stuff like, uh, grouping tracks, you know, and, and, and things like that. That's, I mean, I think, um, uh, you had, you had a guest on one of your, your podcast Mark, and he, he was suggested in really simple things. Um, my favorite thing tracks and things like that. Oh,

Tim Benson: 26:26

yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's some of that

Aerowolf: 26:28

stuff that, uh, I think is useful to the, uh, to

Marc Matthews: 26:31

the body. You music producer. Yeah, most definitely. Just look because it just makes your work a lot easier. I think going back to whats Neon said earlier about how, um, your first few productions you can get, You can almost get deterred by the quality, but you've got persevere beyond that. But if you've got things in place to make it easier for you, like favoring your favorite use, favorite a lot there, starring your favorite patches, or creating those templates just to kickstart your songwriting, it just, it removes those barriers that would otherwise potentially stop you from doing it and, and kill that motivation. Fantastic stuff. Well, how were we now? Whoa, 25 minutes. Um, this is it all on one question. Uh, let's go with Legacy fm then Final one. Uh, what is the one thing about music production, you know, now that you wished you'd know when you started Legacy fm? Don't

Legacy FM: 27:21

pay for AI Mastering.

Marc Matthews: 27:25

Aye. Aye. Yay. Um, , I, I dare you mentioned the platform.

Legacy FM: 27:30

Oh gosh, what was it called? I can't remember. No, it just turned out like crap. and I, I hit my wasted like 80 bucks and then I just did my own Dirty Master and put it out

Marc Matthews: 27:42

anyways. 80 pounds, what? 80 pounds for an online master? That's, that's for like three or four. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah, it's uh, it's interesting you mentioned that cuz uh, as I mentioned off air, I do block bookings and I was talking to a mastering engineer on, on the, on the podcast earlier that's gonna come out in a few weeks. And he mentioned AI mastering off air. We forgot, we didn't get round to mention it in the actual episode, but he said that he's, like, one of his things he said was, um, tips is stay away from AI Mastery. I'm sure you can get some good results from it. This is, but um, yeah, yeah, you can,

Legacy FM: 28:14

that'd be interesting. You have to have a good mix and a good reference tracks and good, there's a way to do it, but I'm not trying to learn how to do the AI

Marc Matthews: 28:23

mastery. Yeah. Are you, I was gonna play devil's advocate there and say, has anyone experienced a, a good how to Good. Had a good experience? Well,

Tim Benson: 28:29

I use Cloud Bounds, John, Tim. Um, I don't, uh, I mean, I've sort of got Ozone 10. I do all my own mastering a lot of the time, but say I just sort of wanted to sort of put something out quickly or whatever, like just, um, you know, I've just finished a mix. I just want to kind of just like, sort of send it over or something. I, I find. Cloud bounce is quite useful, but I actually used it for Miami Nights. My, my debut track cuz I was trying some different things and I had, I've got the kind of, um, version on my desktop where I can use it as much as I want. It doesn't cost me anything. I kind have got that on some plugin boutique deal for some stupid amount of money for a lifetime membership for $60 or something. So I don't, it never costs me to use it at all. And so I can try as many things as I want on as many variants and changes. So in that sense, uh, you know, I can give it different references, all the rest of it. So I've got nothing to lose. If I o put a track in there and I try these things out, if it comes out good, then it comes out good cuz good is good as far as, it doesn't matter whether it went through AI or it went to. A guy like Abbey Road, if it sounds good, it sounds good. So, um, but like, you know, I mean, I've been loving Ozone 10 recently, which I've been using a lot. Um, I used to do a lot of mastering, like a lot of mastering of albums and all kinds of things using all of the individual stuff from my studio. But the end of the day, sometimes I find that one of the things that's great with potentially using AI or Ozone or something like that, something al like a in the box solution, sort of one, one kind of, uh, you know, sort of plugin solution or something like that is that you do actually hear the results and then you go back and tweak the mix. And I think the mix is where it all really, really lies. As you, you said, legacy, if you get a really good mix, . But then if you put it through your mastering and it's not coming out right, you can go back to your mix, change your mix, adapt it. But if you were paying for that on every single one, that would start to notch up very quickly. And so I can see that's really where, and a mastering engineer's gonna be a lot more useful in that, that scenario. I mean, um, but getting your mix right is definitely number one to getting a good, good, good result anyway. But, you know, I mean, we all know that, but it's, um, it, it's hard, isn't it?

Legacy FM: 30:48

I have yet to figure out how to get the mix right. So I'm, I'm still working on

Tim Benson: 30:52

that. Well, you know, it's fun though. Yeah. I

Marc Matthews: 30:56

getting a mix right is key as you mentioned that. And I think. Those platforms. I used them in a similar way to what Tim said there. Um, not the paid ones. Like if you've got an ai, um, ozone had one for a while. It was like a beta program whereby you could upload and it would do a master for you. And I was using that just to, to put demos out or just to get an idea of what it might sound like mastered or what I'm, what aiming for. Yeah, yeah. Something like that, you know, and that I would use it in that respect. My, my a question off the back of mastering. This is an, an interesting one. Do you all do now? I do. Do you all do separate sessions for your mastering or do you do it on your master bus?

Tim Benson: 31:36

Ooh, I don't know what that means. Oh, that's an interesting

Marc Matthews: 31:39

master master bus . You've got master bus. Mm. Uh, so basically, um, yeah, I, I use the master bus. Master bus. So basically it is, it is rendering or bouncing a mix and then importing it into another d a w or the same one, but a separate session to master it. Yeah. Rather than doing it in the same mix session.

Tim Benson: 31:58

I got a sort of in between answer to that. Yeah. Because I u I use a lot of like, um, you know, stuff on my own master bus anyway. Um, I mean, I essentially could just lobb it out and go there. It's mastered, but I tend to have everything sort of on there. Then I'll actually get to the final stage and output a mix at minus 60 B and take it in and master it before I, so I do have a separate mastering stage, but it's almost like I'm listening through, you know, a a, um, an SSL bus compressor, which I know you use Mark. And then I'll have an L three on the end and I'll have all of these things together. So I've got a pretty close to master kind of level that I'm listening to at the end of it all. But then I'll drop it down by 60 B, output it, take off the limit, drop it down to 60 B, output it, and then master it. So, yeah. Yeah.

Marc Matthews: 32:56

I do do a sep So are you mix, you're mixing into your sort of mixing into the mastering chain now?

Tim Benson: 33:02

Yeah, I am. Yeah. Sort of. Yeah. Sort of. Yeah. Yeah. But the, the, the limiter isn't really pushed, it's just like sort of catching anything at the top, you know? Yeah. But I

Marc Matthews: 33:12

am, it's interesting that you mentioned waves there. Um, I, I, I dunno if you're all Waves user. I know you are Tim, but I've upgraded and I have to, this, this is going off topic now and this is, uh, a bug bear of mine. But now because I've upgraded, I've gotta go to version 14 with my plug-ins. I have to pay again to do it. And that, uh, that is not right. Horrible. I'm not taking out a Waves update plan. This is my, this is my grip. I'm gonna do this on air now with waves, right? That I've paid for these plugins. I've gotta pay again. whereas every other platform I I upgraded pigments, no, no additional payment or anything along those lines with Arturia Slate Digital, nothing with those plug-in Alliance, but waves, I've gotta pay 70 old quid to have them my upgraded plug-ins just so I can use them again. Yeah. And unfortunately the, the SSL bus compressor is my go-to, so I'm gonna have to do it. The only

Tim Benson: 34:02

thing I'll say in their have a grumble lot and their defense is that the plug-ins are really, really good. A lot of them, not all of them, some of them I really don't like, but a lot of them are really good for the money in the first place. I think when you get them on their sales or whatever, which they've always got on, they're like one of these places that has always got a sale on, aren't they? But like, you know, but for$30 or 30 quid or whatever, I think that a lot of the gear they sell is very good. So if you did have to pay again, it's not too terrible. But whereas like U A D for instance, who I use a lot, like, you know, just one of their plugins will cost you two, 300 quid for a compressor or something, and you'd be like, is that really justifiable? You know, I mean, it's a little bit of code, you know, but that's what they charge. So, What can you say? If you get sucked into it, you get sucked into. They are great plug-ins. Yeah,

Marc Matthews: 34:57

but did anyone pick up the freebie before Christmas? I think it's called Little Little tube. Little tube saturation. Plug-in. No, that's pretty good. I don't, I don't think it's free anymore. Um, well there you go. It's very good. I, I recently got the Renaissance compressor, which is very good. Very good. Very. Yeah. Um, I used that on the track recently. It's a very good compressor. The Renaissance compressor. I got it. Once again, it was just shaded under 30 quid wherever. I don't, I'm not sure that is dollars. Um, but that, that's very good. I use that on bass and vocals, if I remember rightly. Yeah, I think there's an actual specific one for vocals. Here's, here's a, this isn't, I'm not trying to sell Wave.

Tim Benson: 35:30

No, just dog book book. Um, a little known PL plugin that nobody seems to really like to choose DBX compressor. Uh, if you, if you've ever seen a bass, bass players used to love playing through DBX one 60 compressors and you see them in studios, DBX one 60 s, um, and they just became this sort of thing that just disappeared as all software turns up. And nobody, you wouldn't see a DBX and then like Waves made a version of it. Um, and U a D have made an even better version, but I don't think they're very popular. I don't think everyone goes like, I must have a DBX try it on base. Just absolutely magic. It does magic things on base and like, um, you know, if you're compressing your baseline, try DBX one 60 and there's a waves version, which is why I say it, like, there's only a few people that make 'em, but just one of those compressors nobody thinks you're using, but I don't know why, but they do something really lovely on a base. So there we go. Yeah.

Marc Matthews: 36:26

Yeah, they're very good compressors. I, uh, I, I went, I had a brief time in a studio called Modern World in Teri, just outside of Bristol. And, um, it's for sale if anyone's got 500 grand or it was for sale. And they, uh, they had d yeah, they had DBX compressors. They had distressors, they had the lot, man. Um, it, it was, it was very nice at the time. I didn't really know what I was doing, so I didn't make, didn't really use to their ad to my advantage, but there you go. Really. Um, so we've got ran, so,

Tim Benson: 36:54

no, it's a really quick one. This, but that's right mate, go ahead. You mentioned that, um, it is like, I was like literally on online the other day. And some, I was recounting the fact that at one point I did a session at Genesis's Studio for a whole weekend. Um, so, um, I was producing this guy and I got use of Genesis's Studio, the farm in, which was amazing. So ridiculous, uh, scenario. I was stuck in front of this enormous SSL mixing desk. We are talking like, I think 72 input or something. It's absolutely crazy. And, um, uh, uh, halfway through the sort of morning, the, uh, head engineer who'd been sort of there for me suddenly went like, Oh, you are all right, aren't you? You know what you're doing. And just fucked off and left me with this sort of enormous sort of thing, . And I was like, what the hell am I doing? But I had to continue this session as if I knew, and it was quite crazy. But anyway, that was a weekend spent there, but I was trying to explain to someone what this desk looked like and what the place looked like. And so I just looked it up online and it turned up on eBay because they're literally selling the desk and like you were saying, like with Bristol and the selling. Oh wow. Yeah. And I was just like, it was just like some crazy amount of money, like, you know, I dunno, 150, 200,000, you know, whatever it was for the desk. And I was just like, yeah, I'm not gonna buy that just for the kicks and giggles, just because I remember it. But like, you know, it would've been great. I, I dunno, I don't think it would've fitted in our garage somehow, but, you know. Um, but no. Yeah. So there we go. It was on eBay still is, I think. Hmm.. Marc Matthews: Yeah, that's of money to spend on. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Who just goes on and go buy it now?. Hundred grand . Yeah.

Marc Matthews: 38:36

Yeah. I might, I might place a bid, which will be a lot

Tim Benson: 38:39

lower than 250 grand. Let's see if you get it for $20. Yeah. So

Marc Matthews: 38:46

what I'm gonna do, so with regards to that question, what is the one thing about music production? So mine, um, I, I thought I'd leave mine till last, is, um, you know, now that you wish, you know, when you started and that is balance. Um, I was toying with balance and gain staging and I went with balance. So when I first started out mixing, um, or pro well producing and then mixing, I would mix as I went along, which is fine. And I'd probably do that still to some extent. But what I do now and what I adopted, um, is balance, is getting the mix balanced and then going in and doing my EQ compression, whatever it is I may be doing after that. He's getting balanced first in the mix. Um, because I remember when I first started mixing and, and producing and whatnot, and I'd be forever and I'd look at toying with the, with the faders and I'd look at the faders and they'd be all over the shop. And then it would just get to the point where it just became unmanageable and wily. And then I'd get into binge editing and binge binge mixing. So for me, the one thing I'd wish I'd know more of, and I wish somebody had said to me at the beginning was, get a balance first, get a balanced mix and then work off the back of that. So that would be, mine would be getting balanced. And that's include, that includes panning as well? Panning is, well actually, and another one, mixing in mono, mixing in mono. Now I do a lot of my mixing in mono. Ah, that's a good idea. Yeah.. Here we go. Tim, what, what are your thoughts

Tim Benson: 40:08

in mono? No, people swear by it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I've not really done it, got into it myself, but a lot of people do swear by it.

Marc Matthews: 40:17

Hmm. Yeah,

Tim Benson: 40:19

I do

Aerowolf: 40:19

listen to the track in, um, in mono, but just before I start mastering it, so listen to it on, on the site. On site and also at mono, uh, just to listen to the frequencies. But yeah, I don't, I've not tried it in the mix

Marc Matthews: 40:30

yet, but it's a good idea. Yeah. The, the reason I do it in the mix is for me is the easiest way that I can find, uh, figure out when frequencies are clashing and instruments are clashing. Cuz if it's in mono, I mean you could do it in stereo as well. Um, but I just find for my workplace so much easier. I probably should have said this as my answer to be honest. When it's in mono, I can hear those conflicting frequencies and I can get a better balance. And, um, and also another one as well, which I'd known and right at the beginning, I'm gonna do three now, was, um, not to mi to mix at lower volume. Thumbs. Yeah. And not because everything sounds better when it's loud. Mm. mix it lower volume. I

Tim Benson: 41:10

did spend the first 20 years of my life completely disregarding that in every way, shape or form. That's why I'm partly deaf. I think I just like Absolutely blew the, yeah. Speakers through the roof. It was great having a studio where you could just turn it up until four in the morning. Nobody gave a fuck. I loved it. Yeah.. Yeah. Sorry.

Marc Matthews: 41:31

It's easily done. Yeah, it doesn't,

Tim Benson: 41:32

doesn't produce that. That dog could slow, slowly produce creep doesn't mixes. It doesn't. No. I think it's good for tracking though. Yeah. I will say that. I will say a bit of volume can be really good for tracking. Hmm.

Marc Matthews: 41:46

Yeah. I think it helps with the vibe. Yeah. I think if you've got musicians in the room and it's a quiet track, quietly tracking from my experience when I've been recording, uh, I've had, I've been the artist being recorded if it's

Tim Benson: 41:58

quiet. Yeah. You want to get enough to go vibe, don't you?

Marc Matthews: 42:01

Going back to.. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. And going back to doing it at a lower level as well, if you are mixing it a lower level, I think it, it translate trans, obviously, you're gonna, you're gonna, you're gonna pump it at some point to see what it sounds like loud, but I think it translate better. It translates better, sorry, on streaming platforms, if you've done it at a lower level. Yeah. Because, um, inherently streaming platforms will do that to it if it's mastered at, to a high level anyway. And then if they've done that and your mix doesn't sound good at a low level, then your mix is, is done. Although that you really, that, I mean, this is going down the intricacies of mastering names. You pick up that during the mastering process. But gentlemen, I realize 40 minutes in now and we've got some music to play, so I don't wanna lose time. Um, so we're gonna, we're gonna, uh, we're gonna play some music now. This is, this is a new feature I brought in at the, uh, the, the 12 days of sys. And, uh, it went quite well. One, one thing we did realize is that when the music's playing, it's quite awkward. Everyone's just sat looking at the screen. Um, which is, which is quite odd, but Yeah, yeah, exactly. No one really knew what to do. We can dance. Yeah, you can do Feel free, if you're watching this on YouTube, you, um, you might see some individuals dancing. You'll also, I, I forgot to mention this, but Sub Neon has, is, uh, it has a t-shirt that says Sub Neon. Yeah, it's great. I'm, I liking the, a lot bit of promo there. It's a great idea., it's

Sub Neon: 43:23

a great idea. It's a, it's a, it's a world exclusive. Yeah. There, there is literally only one in existence and, um, I can't imagine any, anyone would wanna buy one.

Tim Benson: 43:32

People are buying R nine T-shirts. I've sold about. I've sold. Yeah, I've seen now. Yeah. Yeah. I don't own one myself yet. I'm too skin , but yeah. I must buy one . Mm mm.

Marc Matthews: 43:48

So Tim, are you doing it? Um, by to order them? Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so you, because I was gonna say, are you gonna bring some to the gig in February? I probably will, I'm

Tim Benson: 43:55

assuming I'll buy some myself actually and bring them to the gig. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll order some. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm looking forward to that. Yeah. My might selly one. So, uh, you uk

Marc Matthews: 44:08

UK audience, uh, what, what is the date of that? It's 25th of February. I'm gonna, I'm gonna be popping along to that. Excellent, excellent. And it is, it's in Bristol Bristol, isn't it?

Tim Benson: 44:19

It's, yeah. 2020 fifth of 25th of February. Yeah. It's gonna be a really good day I think, cuz it's, you know, that in the, that in the afternoon and then it's going on to Sunset Boulevard at, um, in the evening. So it's gonna be, um, yeah, no dusk waves followed by Sunset Boulevard loads and loads of different synth wave acts all live good. Yeah.

Marc Matthews: 44:43

At the, at the, yeah, that's, it makes Bristol sound very nice. Um, sunset

Tim Benson: 44:48

Boulevard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, Bristol and Sunset Boulevard aren't really connected, are they? Other than that, you know,, Marc Matthews: but yeah, I, I It's a fantastic city. Um, but yeah, sunset Boulevard, . Um, so let's go with, uh, sub, and if we play yours first, , just describe me that I love Bristol. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not Slack enough Bristol there. Uh, I was born there, , uh, sub neon. If you, uh, do you wanna give us a quick run through of your, uh, your tracks? We've got 30 seconds. Give a bit bit of background on this track.

Sub Neon: 45:21

Yeah, well, okay. It's, uh, it's the fourth track that I've produced, uh, under, under Sub now. And, um, it, it's, it kind of follow onto my previous release, which was, uh, called Step Up, which, um, is moving away from what I, I I wanted to achieve from, from suddenly on to a degree, but I quite liked it, so a bit more upbeat than my, than I would generally, uh, put out there. But, um, no, it, it. Uh, the, the tracks that I produce are very much reflective of the mood that I have at, at that particular moment in time. So, um, you know, uh, after coming out of some pretty tough times, things were looking up with new jobs and, and, you know, family stuff getting resolved and all the rest of it. So I, I wanted to produce something that, um, would get, give me a sort of a thumping beat and a fat base and something to nod along to as I drive down the road. So, um, uh, and I, I put the, uh, a snippet of the track out on Instagram, cause I couldn't think of a name. Uh, and half a dozen to a dozen people just, uh, uh, picked glow. Uh, so, and, and it seemed to fit quite nicely with the, with the vibe of the track. So, so yeah, I'm really pleased with this one.

Marc Matthews: 46:33

Yeah. Brilliant stuff. Have you got a release date for it yet?

Sub Neon: 46:38

Uh, it will be when you finish mastering it, mark, Tim Benson: that Yeah.. Yeah.

Marc Matthews: 46:46

Fantastic stuff, right?. Let's play, let's play. Uh, so this is Glow Fantastic stuff. I like that you had a little fade there at the end. That was, that was great. That reminds me, um, of um, a lot of, of clin tone actually. Yeah. It's interesting you mentioned that you've been bouncing ideas back and forth with clin tone. Yeah, cuz um, it reminds me of, of, um, there's, I can hear the, the subtleties of clin tone in there and I see Tim nodding lot. Tim,

Tim Benson: 47:40

I quite like that sort of thing cuz it's got that. Uh, well a bit like C clone, the sort of like, and when you mention it, it's, it's sort of synth wave vibe, but a sort of slightly more club EDM kind of tinge to it. Mm-hmm. But it's not that, it's not straightforward, you know, I mean, and I'd say the same with clin tone. It's definitely sort of synth wave retro kind of vibe in there. But, uh, but at the same, a more dance sort of floor version of it, which gives quite a lot of stuff that I like that really sits in that sort of mold. I think. So. Nice. Really melodic and, but got a good, really as you say, thumping groove in there, which is good. Yeah.

Marc Matthews: 48:21

Yeah. Have a thumping

Sub Neon: 48:22

groove and I appreciate everyone nodding along and dancing. I think I was the only one that wasn't

Tim Benson: 48:26

so, uh, . It was

Legacy FM: 48:30

critic. Same song 500 times.

Marc Matthews: 48:32

Mm-hmm.. Yeah, that's, that's exactly it. Legacy. But yeah. When you've heard the same song so many times. Yeah. When somebody plays the music, my own music back to me, I'm like, no, I don't wanna hear it. Right. Don't wanna hear it.. Yeah. Yeah. Um, which probably shouldn't do that to be honest. Um, there you go. Um, so whil some whilst we're talking to yourself there, legacy, do you want to give us a bit of a run through of the, the track you've, you've sent across?

Legacy FM: 48:54

Oh, shit. Okay. So this one's called Desire. We just put out an album and then I'm just already like, trying to do something different. I just got tired of hearing those old songs from, uh, dystopian. But, uh, yeah, different kind of vibe. I, I'm into like genre blending, so it's a little bit more of like a new wave post punk mixed with some, some trap and, uh, some synthy bass and other synth sounds, but yeah. Uh, cars, girls, and not about sums it up.

Tim Benson: 49:23

fantastic. Don't

Marc Matthews: 49:24

get wrong trap.. Uh, I'm, I'm sure . Yeah.. Trap Wave. Trap Wave, man. Yeah. Uh, I, I've been, I've. Uh, who's, somebody sent me a song to listen to earlier today. I can't remember who it was. Um, but there were elements of it in there as well with the high hats. And I can certainly hear, I haven't, I haven't listened to this all the way through, but I'm sure there's gonna be more and more of that coming through. But let's give it a listen before I was, stop me waffling on.

Legacy FM: 50:28

Speed. She knows what she wants. She tastes what she needs. Pulling out the knife. Just watch me.

Marc Matthews: 50:38

So that was a bit longer than 30 seconds. I didn't wanna cut it halfway through the, uh, the phrasing there.

Legacy FM: 50:42

So yeah, it's definitely like a two different songs mashed into one. So there's a, it goes into a breakdown where the vibe just completely changes and then it Oh, circles back to that. That

Marc Matthews: 50:52

kind of feel fantastic. Yeah, that's fine. Mm-hmm. The vocals, um, is that yourself or your, um, collaborator? Nope,

Legacy FM: 51:00

just me trying to figure it out.

Tim Benson: 51:02

I like that. Yeah. I like Excellent. Really good. Any the new wave thing you mentioned? Yeah, I can definitely hear that in the Yeah. Bushes. Nice. So yeah, I really like that song. Yeah. Very good. Yeah, OHK.

Marc Matthews: 51:17

Your vocal processing. What, what are you, what are you, you don't wanna know, dude, it's bad . Alright, let's, let's go with like the, the, the, the, there's some sort of, um, modulation or something going on there is, correct me if I'm wrong. I

Legacy FM: 51:29

mean the, it's uh, two maybe, yeah, three or four different vocal tracks. So there's some harmonies, but yeah, just a little bit of reverb and um, I don't know, some vocal chain I just found on a YouTube video and it's all built in, uh, to Ableton, so I didn't have to get any extra plugins or anything for it. So, I don't know. Microphone helps, I guess , I have no

Tim Benson: 51:54

idea. Yeah. Yeah, you don't get far without one in the vocal department. Yeah. Yeah.

Marc Matthews: 52:03

You can have all the equipment you want, but if you haven't got a microphone, you're not gonna lay down any vocal. Well, well, unless you've got a phone,

Legacy FM: 52:09

you still I wish I had a better answer. I really have no idea how

Marc Matthews: 52:12

I did it, to be honest. No, that's fine man. That's fine. It's, um, I just wing it. It's just intrigued cuz it's, it's got an, it kind of, it sits really well there because of the, the processing that's done on it. It just, it kind of suits the aesthetic sound of the song Cool. All the

Tim Benson: 52:25

time. I love it. I didn't hear the trap as much as I was thinking. Have you got release date or was it already out? Eh, it's

Legacy FM: 52:31

later on. Uh, no, I might just do this one as a single. Uh, we've got like four or five other tracks going for a new album, but we started off doing two albums without really a singles and uh, kind of against the flow of what people say you should do. Just punch out a bunch of singles and promote each one of 'em. Uh, but I still don't have time for all that. So two albums put 'em out and I think now we're gonna go this single route and maybe do a.. Marc Matthews: Cool. I'm just gonna skip on a minute. I kind of wanna hear this trap. Um, this goes against my 32nd rule that I had, but I, I'm intrigued by the, the trap now. I'm

Marc Matthews: 53:14

assuming this is the bit, this is the bit love I've seen trap straight. Yeah. Are you perform trap. When you are creating those, those patterns, are you using a, um, a sequencer or are you triggering them with a, with a controller or are you drawing them in with a mouse? A

Legacy FM: 53:54

Kai m PK mini two or I'll use a, I got a roll in drum set., so Nice. Been doing a lot of, uh, sound design and, and getting kits actually, you know, poured it over to that. Um, or I'll just draw 'em in. I usually start off playing. either on pads or on the on the kit. And then I'll fix it up and add more to it. It's funny

Tim Benson: 54:14

cuz I've been busy, like love the act guy. I've been busy all week, like doing the sort of opposite, which is translating all my tracks that I've done for this live show. So I'm busy converting every single like sample I've created for my drummer who's firing them all off off of Roland. He's, he's got a sample pad, one of their s Spx sample pad things, and then he's like sort of, so he's loading them all in. So it's gonna be exactly, he's gonna be playing the tr the, the samples from my tracks. But you know, he's actually firing them and playing them live and it's really weird. I heard the first video back, them playing it. He's really great drummer, but it's just like, Different hearing a real drummer sort of playing what you've programmed. You know, it's kind of weird, but Yeah. It sounded good. So, yeah. But I, I'm so bored of exporting drum sounds, . I didn't realize I made that many drum sounds and like all the aeq and a compression and effects and then you, you want to get them all right. So Yeah, it takes ages. Mm-hmm., it's gotta be a challenge. Yeah. Yeah. It's gonna be fun.

Marc Matthews: 55:18

Yeah. I'm looking forward to it, to, it's, it's gonna be uh, nice for me to, to be the one observing, cuz I remember being in a band and being the one that was almost not looking at me, but looking at the band, you know? Yeah. So it's gonna be nice to be in the crowd. Well,

Tim Benson: 55:31

hopefully. So. Yes. And see this, it'll all be fine unless some, something horribly goes wrong with the technology. I think that's the one thing I've always done. Band stuff. You know, I haven't really had to worry on tech. The most that might go wrong might be like, you know, the drummer had fall off his stool or like, you know, at the back or like the, you know, you break a string or like the, the keyboard players might have to restart his keyboard or something. But, you know, I mean, it was, there wasn't all that much to go wrong technically speaking, but like, this is a trouble when you're doing stuff with track. I mean, your, your computer goes, damn, something happens like that. It's just done, isn't it? It's just like suddenly all your music stops and you, you, you're left there with someone hitting some pads and I'm like a guitar. So it could be, it could be quite bad news if it goes wrong. So yeah, it'd be interesting. Mm-hmm.. Yeah. Mic up those

Marc Matthews: 56:28

pants. Yeah. Yeah. Get a 4 21 mic on the pad. Yeah.

Tim Benson: 56:31

Just have the, I'm putting my entire trust as a backup on the 2012 MacBook. There we go. Yeah. That's pretty seat of the pants. Good luck. My, I don't have enough money for it at all. Yeah, I had one of those. Yeah. It's got an SSD in it. Mine

Marc Matthews: 56:49

was running on Steam, I think when I got rid of it. How? How It, oh, well that was better than mine. Mine didn't have an sds

Tim Benson: 56:54

SD in eight gig in it, so, you know. Yeah. Mm. But it still has, um,

Marc Matthews: 57:05

Um, so final, final trackers from Aero Wolf. Um, do you wanna give us just a bit of a background on this track for us?

Aerowolf: 57:13

Yeah, sure. Mark. Yeah. Th this was, um, this was a track one of, kind of one of my earlier, um, tunes called, um, photons is the name of it. Uh, and, uh, it was a collaboration with an Italian singer, uh, who, uh, funny enough who I met on Instagram, um, Anton Martin. Um, and, uh, he's kind of got that, um, ki kind of baritone voice that, uh, is kind of synonymous with kind of early eighties music. I think it sounds quite similar to that. Anyway, so this, this is, it's all similar to what Legacy was described of his track. It's quite a new wave. Um, that was the main inspiration. So kind of mid eighties, I think, uh, rather than earlier eighties. But, uh, I wanted to do a bit of a remix of it, um, just putting my producer skills to, uh, to good use over the sort of two or three years of, um, since I first started. So, wanted to give it a bit of, uh, bit of a oomph, uh, bit of punch, and this is the kind of result. So, um, I'm, I'm quite pleased with the outcome.

Marc Matthews: 58:10

Excellent stuff. Right? Without further ado, Oh, it reminds me of a band and I cannot think of who it is from the Yeah, I'm, I'm really loving

Legacy FM: 58:48

stuff like that right now.

Marc Matthews: 58:49

Yeah. I wanted to make it kind

Aerowolf: 58:51

of live sounding as well, so hopefully it comes across like bit. Yeah. And then he, it just kicks into with the kind of main lead melody after that's, that's the chorus. But, uh, yeah. I'm quite pleased with the outcome with the result, it's come out,

Marc Matthews: 59:05

come out quite well. Mm-hmm.. Yeah. I'm trying to think of the band. It, it's certainly got like a, a synth eighties synth pop. Sort of sound to it, uh, which I, I love. I could listen to that sort of stuff all day. It's really, really cool. Um, how did you, I'm always intrigued by vocals because I find that vocal mixing is, is probably one of the most challenging aspects of, of a mix and getting the vocals right. What have you used to, um, not necessarily EQ compression, but like create that sort of etherealness of the vocal?

Aerowolf: 59:36

I think I used quite a few different, um, elements, um, on, on his vocals because his vocals were quite raw. Um, so I used quite a few different, um, effects, um, from memory. I mean, I did use a vo coder on one of the, um, layers of the vocals. Um, as well as o obviously the dsr, I use that. Um, I use a CLA 76 compressor on the vocals and then pan panned, you know, one left, one right as you, as you would normally do. I think I've got that tip from you, mark, maybe one of your videos. But, uh, . Yeah. Tried to, tried to make it sound a bit, uh, a bit more depth to the vocals. Um, I think there were some Ableton plugins I used as well. Um, I'm trying to think what, which ones are used. Uh, but there, there was a few I used, you know, stock plugins, um, on the vocals just to, just to give it a bit

Marc Matthews: 1:00:27

more room. But, uh, yeah. So we've got, um, two, two Ableton users. Legacy f you said Ableton Sub Neon are using Ableton as well. Wow. That's the first time we've ever been out Guns. Yeah. It's 11. Yeah. Yeah. Three Ableton users. I It's Save

Tim Benson: 1:00:43

Your Cubase. Yeah. I use the only door worth fusing here. Yeah. I'm Logic. Marc Matthews: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No.

Marc Matthews: 1:00:54

Yeah. Although you use main stage. I know we're having a chat out main

Tim Benson: 1:00:57

stage. Yeah, I was trying main stage, gave up with it. Gone back to Cubas. Hm.. Marc Matthews: Yep. But ableton's good for live, isn't it? Mm-hmm., I mean, uh, I dunno if you guys Ableton use it, if you've ever used it live or considered using it live. Um, I dabbled briefly

Sub Neon: 1:01:14

got, I've gotta learn how to use it in a studio environment first. I don't, I don't think it's gonna work, uh, taking it out on the road,, Tim Benson: to be honest. I goes back to what SIM says, right? Yeah. I ended up going back to having, I tried main stage and I tried, um, Ableton, uh, like thinking that I would try those for my live show, but, I've ended up going back to Cubase and making it work for what I want to do because I know it inside outs and it's, it's what I know. Yeah. Stick with what you know and learn it Well, and, and then I've worked out ways that I can do what I want to do in it. I mean, if you were doing loop based stuff, like a lot of people do on Ableton, it, it wouldn't work. Really work. It's not really designed for that, but like, you know, the, what I'm doing, it's gonna work. So should be all right. Yeah. Fingers crossed.. Yeah.. Yeah.

Marc Matthews: 1:02:05

Jens, uh, we, we've come to the hour mark now, so I get we're gonna, we're gonna wrap it up. It's been great. So what we're gonna do is I'll, I'll go around to easy of you if you can just, um, tell our audience where they can find you online and, um, I'll put all those links in the show notes for the episode so they can, they can find you and find your music. So I'll, I'll go around on the screen here. So legacy fm, where can the audience find you online?

Legacy FM: 1:02:26

I'm all over the internet. Can't miss me. Uh, no.

Tim Benson: 1:02:29

So, uh,, Marc Matthews: I'll just

Legacy FM: 1:02:32

the socials. Of course, I usually only focus on Instagram. Um, music's on Spotify, apple Music, all the, all the streaming services. But yeah. Yeah, just hit me up on ig. I'm down to collab, whatever.

Marc Matthews: 1:02:47

Fantastic. Excellent. Thank you very much. Uh, sub Neon, uh, where can we find you? Uh, it's

Sub Neon: 1:02:53

same as Legacy. I'm on every, every single, uh, , uh, social media outlet. There. There is, uh, uh, Spotify is is my primary, uh, route to, to the audience I guess. And, uh, Instagram for, for social media. So just search sub neon subor ne. You'll be about to find it.

Tim Benson: 1:03:10

Yeah.

Legacy FM: 1:03:10

Can I can add Legacy FM vibes is my IG legacy. FM vibes. Legacy

Marc Matthews: 1:03:15

Fmm. Legacy FM vibes. I assume

Tim Benson: 1:03:18

we're following each other. Uh, arrow Wolf.

Aerowolf: 1:03:21

I was about, say, I gave, I gave everyone a follow. Um, today, I think I was listening to Legacy FM's, um, album. Very, very good actually. And I like your bio on Spotify. I might, uh, might think it's two one. Legacy FM: Nobody's It's a little Easter egg. Don't, don't ruin it here

Marc Matthews: 1:03:35

though.

Tim Benson: 1:03:36

Oh, I'm gonna have to let this up.. Aerowolf: Yeah. Say some of me, all the usual or the usual places. If you search up Air Wolff, uh, music or Air Wolff, not to be confused with the gaming, um, aol. Um, but, uh, yeah. Bang Camp, usual place. A Wolff music.

Marc Matthews: 1:03:53

Yeah. Pretty much everywhere.. Fantastic. Thank you very much. E Wolff, uh, legacy. I, I've just, I'm not gonna spoil it. I just looked it up. It's very good. I like that. Um, , that's really good audience listening. Uh, go check out Legacy A CFF on Spotify. Oh, I'm gonna do that. And look at the. and, uh, respond to it. Mm-hmm. respond to it as well. Let's do it. And Tim, where, where

Tim Benson: 1:04:14

can the audience find you? Yeah, online music, um, on ig, TikTok, uh, YouTube, um, Facebook, all the rest of it. I'm, I'm an IG person really, so you're gonna find me there. And I agree. Spotify's probably my main sort of streaming platform and Absolutely. Um, uh, I just R nine, just search R nine on Bandcamp, um, on, um, Twitter, I'm pretty active, but as well, but like, um, like, uh, you, you'll find me, uh, I l nine synth wave. Actually, I'm, I'm also R nine Music, but my R nine synth wave account is much bigger, so, you know, but like, essentially, yeah, hit me up on ig, whatever you want. I am there probably,

Marc Matthews: 1:04:58

Brilliant. Thank you very much. And as I mentioned at the beginning, or rather at the beginning of this, this section, I'll, I'll pull the links in the show notes. So folks, uh, audience listening, if you wanna join myself and others at the synth Palace Pub, don't forget and, uh, and you wanna feature on this, don't forget, you can go to www.insidethemixpodcast.podiumpodia.com. As, um, as you can li listen from this episode. It's just a great way to network chat, to chat to your peers and learn and share ideas. And every episode gets published on air, so if you wanna feature a snippet of a track and we can have a quick chat about it on air, if you've got something coming up or you need help with a particular bit, you can get that featured in the episode as well. Gentlemen, thank you very much for this today. It's been great. It's been a great start to 2023 in the synth Powells pub and reopening the doors. And, um, thank you very much. Hi, this is George, aka Common Noodles. I'm one of my favorite episodes of The Inside The Mix Podcast is episode 42, featuring year of the fall. It is amazing to hear about their workflow and how they deal with the challenge of collaborating in different time zones. Keep up the amazing work, mark.