#59: Synthpop Songwriting Tips That You Need to Know | Pensacola Mist

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Pensacola Mist is a high-contrast synth-pop trio inspired by 80s synths and nostalgia. Known for their larger-than-life live light show, powerhouse vocals, and electric on-stage energy.

To listen to the new album Lost in Love, click here: https://open.spotify.com/album/5D1O2KbAsMoaQoPvsYhTKE?si=35mI-flXTHWmwwyLA5uK_g

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Transcript

Marc Matthews: 0:01

You are listening to the Inside The Mix podcast with your host, Mark Matthews. Hello and welcome to the Inside the Mix podcast. I'm Mark Matthews, your host, musician, producer, and mix and mastering engineer. You've come to the right place if you want to know more about your favorite synth music artist, music, engineering, and production, songwriting, and the music industry. I've been writing, producing, mixing, and mastering music for over 15 years, and I wanna share what I've learnt with you. Hey folks, if you are a new inside the mix, podcast listener, welcome and don't forget to hit that subscribe button and if you are a returning listener, welcome back. At the time of this episode going live, we find ourselves in that weird limbo between Christmas and New Year. Now I'm taking some downtime this week, and so this week's episode of The Inside the Mix podcast is from the archives and features. Dan Cox of the Brilliant Pensa columnist. Episode 38 is one of my favorite inside the mix interviews and also an audience favorite. You can hear it referenced at the end of various podcast episodes by you, the listeners, if you want to know how to write modern synth pop music, and craft the perfect live show, this is the episode for you. However, before we dive into this week's episode, did you know that with a consistent songwriting schedule, not only will you progress as a producer, but you'll also release more music? Now, the reason why a lot of producers stagnate and release music sporadically is because they're disorganized and inefficient with their songwriting. So I've created an amazing free tool called the Producer Growth Scorecard to help solve this very problem. This simple tool will help you gamify your songwriting so that you can see a direct correlation between your score and your release numbers. The Producer Growth Scorecard has helped to triple my songwriting in just six weeks. Let's see what it can do for you. Pick up your Free Producer Growth Scorecard at www.markmatthewsproducer.com. So hey folks, and welcome back to The Inside The Mix podcast. And in this episode, as usual, I'm always excited. I'm excited to welcome our guest today, Daniel Cox is one third of uh, Pensacola Mist, who are a high contrast synth pop trio. Inspired by eighties synths and nostalgia known for their larger than life light show powerhouse vocals and electric on stage energy. Love that. And, uh, Dan's gonna share the story behind pets, columnist, synth pop, songwriting, the ups and downs, and of being in a band and the new album, which will be out on the 15th of July. Dan, thanks for joining me today. And how

Dan Cox: 2:33

are you? Thanks for having me. Yeah, I'm great. Thank you. Yeah, really looking forward to this too.

Marc Matthews: 2:36

Hey, so, um, I've been following you guys for a while online. I know we've been back and forth probably over the last year or so. Yeah. And, um, I absolutely love your, your music. It's right up my street in terms of like synth music and synth pop and whatnot, man. Brilliant. Um, I've been bing it this week as I always do. Um, so for the audience listening, um, via podcast now this is a live episode being streamed on Facebook. So if you are listening to this retrospectively, um, join the Facebook community group. There is a link in the, uh, the show notes and you can then keep up to date on future live episodes. So we're gonna look at the, uh, the story behind Pensacola Myth. So what I wanna start with, first question for this particular episode. Is, uh, the story behind the band? Well, actually, let's start with your own story. Let's start with your own story. So your musical life leading up to Pensacolas.

Dan Cox: 3:24

Yeah. Well, um, growing up, um, music wasn't like a huge part of my life. Like my mom and dad had some favorites and we would have the monkey set and listened to them mainly in the car and over and over. So there would be an album for maybe that would last two years, and I'd just know it inside out. So it was, you know, um, whether it's my dad listening to Sting, I guess in the nineties, or the cranberries Nice. And, and my mom listening to the cause, you know, so it's it's kind of like it, there'd be one tape for 18 months or so, and that would just get, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat. And, and other than that, there wasn't, you know, I wasn't ex, I wasn't exposed to a lot of music. Um, my, my granddad was in a folk band. Um, and in fact it still is disrespectful to say he was just, cause I haven't seen them for a little while, doesn't mean that he's just stopped. And, um, and, and so, you know, there's, there's kind of like this folky influence that, that, um, It was the start of music for me and, and kind of certainly the start of seeing it performed live and, um, and that, you know, I would, I would ask at the age of seven or eight to, to see them every time they performed. And it was probably just in the corner of a pub somewhere, or there was a, there was like a fate or something and they were playing and I would, I would just ask to be there, um, at every opportunity they could. Cause I just loved seeing it come together live and, and uh, and that's kind of left a mark on me, I'm quite sure.

Marc Matthews: 4:39

Amazing. Um, yeah. No, that's great. That's great. It's always great when you rehear stories about how, uh, individuals have grown up with music and how it influences in their, sort of, their parents getting involved with those influencers as well. Um, so with regards to music itself, is that like a seminal album or artist that uh, sort of had a direct influence on you growing up?

Dan Cox: 4:58

Yeah, so, so that kind of continued that. Lack of exposure to, to lots of music. Um, kind of, you know, until through, through to my teenage years. And one of the first times I remember music really kind of hitting me and, um, and I, I'm sure this will come up with, with other people in, you know, in Sid Pop Wave, but it was playing Grand Theft Vice and just falling in love with those songs of the eighties. You know, I'd listen to Flash FM on repeat. I would just, in fact, I'd sometimes turn on that game, park the car up and just have the car radio going so I could hear some of those tracks. And, and I was just like, and now I'd by how fun it was and how, you know, and how light, and that's kind of, I guess probably when I started checking out top of the pops too and stuff and just seeing what other sort of eighties things, uh, I'd kind of miss, I guess, actually. Uh, a memory's just unlocked him out in my mind of, of, of buying, um, of my mom buying, uh, uh, black or white, black white, the, the Michael Jackson track on cassette when I was probably like four, I think. I must have heard that on the radio and wanted that on. So that's sort of like, you know, that sort of AEs. Early nineties, you know, but I guess mainly eight, mainly eighties stuff has just kind of been there in the background throughout the whole journey. But yeah, I, I think, I think when, when that came out, that game came out and unlocked all these other sorts of, uh, these sorts of things that, that I could hear and, and kind of delve into. Um, it's bizarre that it would be a compilation from a video game that kind of, that kind of starts it as some, you know, something that unlocked it. But, but, but that, you know, that was a, that was a real kick for me to kind of get me going. Um, and then, uh, if, if I then start to discover a few, a few more bands through some of my friends and, um, and it was actually block party that took me through most of my teenagers. Oh yeah. You know, yeah. Like, like that sort of smart indie rock. Um, primarily based around, you know, silent alarm being is still one of my favorite albums. Uh, and, and of course that's absolutely not synth in any way, but, but they do still like to play with guitars in a way through their loop pedals and their delays and things. So it's like kind of coming up with these different soundscapes out of something that. You know, everyone kind of starts with two guitars and a bass and drums and see what, well, what can you do with that, you know? So that, that's, that's been something for me. But if I had to pick a band and, and, and sometimes I don't tell this because it, uh, can give the wrong impression or, um, uh, or can require more of a follow up, but I'm a mega fan of the band Kit. Oh, yes. And . And, uh, and, and there's something about them that have, you know, they just, they just live here rent free the whole time. It's, it's the aesthetics and it's the, uh, the stage show and it's, and it's thinking that music can be something more than just what you play. And I'll be the first to say, um, I, I don't think there's a good Kiss album. And they had about 35. So , it's not, you know, that's something that's kind of bigger than music. And I think I, I, I enjoy seeing that with, with bands and seeing what can they do that, that's, that's more, um, as much as, as much as I love listening to Radiohead as well, you know, radio heads. Favorite band of my wife and, uh, and uh, and, and, and that's on. And I, and I love listening to more, uh, intelligent music, but sometimes you're thinking that music is, is there as an escape, is something that I just love going to like, and, and something that synth pop and synth wave really helped with, I think, you know? Mm-hmm. It's kind of this, I like to say it's this, um, nostalgia, it's, it's rose tinted glasses for a time that never existed, but we can all kind of pretend we all have the same imaginary version of the eighties. Mm-hmm. that just didn't exist. And we can all just like open these different chapters on, on, on news stories that happened there, but they're all in this same shared universe somehow that we all know the rules to. So, you know, um, yeah. It's, it, it, it's just seeing what, what can music be more than, uh, more than putting on the cd. Yeah. I

Marc Matthews: 8:41

like that. Um, going back to what you said right at the beginning there about Vice City, I, I very much did the same, I dunno about you, but what I would used to do is I'd find a plane and I would, I think in Vice City

Dan Cox: 8:51

you could fly. Helicopters were in Fey. Yes. Yeah. That was, they, they did

Marc Matthews: 8:55

have helicopters in there. Yeah. And I would find a chopper and then I would just circle and listen to the same radio station and waiting for, I think it was Cutting, crew dying. Dying. My arms tonight. I'm fairly certain that was on there and I would wait. Yeah. What a, yeah. Fantastic song. I love it. Um, and I would wait for that to come on and then just keep circling around. Yeah. Yeah. That vice game was fantastic. And Kiss as well. Kiss are fantastic. I mean, songwriters, as you mentioned there, about a band who are bigger than them. I think that's probably the wrong phrase. Not necessarily bigger than their music, but they certainly as a, as a brand, as an entity, they did it the right way. I mean, if you look at what they were doing in the seventies into the eighties as well. Mm-hmm., I mean, gene Simmons. When you got the figures, and I think they had a cartoon as well, if I remember rightly. Yeah. Well,

Dan Cox: 9:40

well they, they had a Marvel comic actually. They, that they put their own, they put, they put vials of their own, um, blood into the red ink that got mixed into the comic. It was all about, it was all about this bigger thing. So, you know, I kind of feel like I keep that mentality, obviously on this tiny scale, but everything I do, like, well, how can we make this bigger or more, uh, bombastic or, or how, you know, how do we make this more, like, more of a talking point than, than just this one thing we're doing? If we're already gonna do something, we may as well turn it into something a little bit bigger and a little bit more exciting. You know, that's, that's something that

Marc Matthews: 10:09

I, that we try and Yeah. Yeah. Um, and make it different. Different, do something different. Yeah. I didn't know they did that. That's so narcissistic. They're doing that one. Dan Cox: That is, isn't it? They, they also, they were playing, they were playing the media with it, you know, um, gene Simmons obviously has his, his, his, uh, character in, within the band, and, and I will never be, uh, uh, certainly not of those days. Like a, a Gene Simmons defender. But Paul Stanley, the, you know, the lead singer is, is my go-to. And they all have these characters and Paul Stanley's this romantic figure with roses and, you know, he's, he's the lover of the group. And then Gin Simmons is the opposite side to that with demons spitting blood. But they had this reputation for being, um, for being devil worshipers and, and, and kiss standing for Knights and Satan service and everything. And it was never true. They're so soft. Yeah, they're so light. I actually saw them in their on download last week, which was their last ever UK um, show. And, uh, and, and throughout the day the crowd, when people were announcing the kiss were headline in that night, the crowd are booing. Cuz that's a, that's a crowd of metalheads and rockers and they don't like kiss because KISS is not that, you know, it's, it's this kind of separate thing. It fits best in there. Better download than it leads already. Yeah. But also it's so different and divisive. Yeah. I, I, I think I saw Kiss. Uh, this is, take me back now. I wish I'd gone to download this year. Um, but I saw them in 2000, I think it was 2008 or 2009 at Download. And

Dan Cox: 11:30

I was there

Marc Matthews: 11:31

2008 as well. Yeah. Oh, probably. No, I've stood right at the back of front. I, I say I st I watched, I did. I sort of like, I was going from A to B and they were playing at the same time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I can't remember. I dunno if it was the full lineup or not.

Dan Cox: 11:42

Don't know. Well, yeah, they've, uh, Jean and Paul, I think they're, as long as they're there the head, then I think it all, it all makes sense. They're, they're talking and, and, and they're talking about replacing them at some point down the line. But I think that will be a very short lived experiment that as soon as they go, it's done. I

Marc Matthews: 11:58

think. Yeah, a hundred percent that, I think that's where they're seeing it as maybe as a brand rather, rather than like, uh, absolutely rock route.

Dan Cox: 12:05

They wanna keep the Hello Kitty merchandise going. Marc Matthews: Yeah, exactly. But I like what you said there about how you, you are trying to, on a smaller scale, trying to emulate it with your, the live shows that you guys put on as well, which we'll, we'll come back onto in a bit later. Yeah. So that kind of moves us on nicely then onto like the birth of, um, Pensacola mis, so, mm-hmm. um, first, thingss, first the name. Can you tell us where the name came from? Um, yeah, well, Like, like most names, I guess, or, or at least half names out of thin air. Really? It it, the missed part just happened straight away. Yeah, it was, it was always gonna be missed. And, and what's what's interesting is that we, um, we had this name when we recorded an album that was primarily tar focused and was more down that sort of block party route the Oliver Overnight wrote together in our home studio. Um, but it's translated so well in the simple world, like, you know, we didn't Yeah, definitely consider changing it. Cause Pensacola Mist just fits in here with this feeling. But yeah, so, so Mist had this evocative AEs mis mystery, you know, behind it. And, and we knew that you couldn't just be called Mist. There'll be a million other mists and if you Google Mist, you're gonna get weather reports, , and you know, you wanna be able to find us, you know, you gotta be able to find us. So, um, so we were, we're thinking about, um, about place names in America. Again, thinking about that sort of, uh, romanticizing part of the states, and especially if you are not from the States, uh, and, and specifically I guess from the UK where. Everything that we ate in, you know, pop culture-wise, uh, was from America. Really. You know, 90% of everything that we saw on TV are listened to, was big from, from the states. Um, so we started, um, thinking of places, uh, in the states that we, and just trying to match it with mist and seeing what worked. Um, and, and it was Oliver. Oliver and I both, um, have been lifelong wrestling fans as well. So we were just listing off wrestlers, hometowns and then we got to Pensacola and thought Pensacola. Yeah, there's something in that and it kind of like flows nicely. So Pensacola missed. It was, and it, and yes. So, so that was that that one night of what the hell good did we put with mis uh, yeah. Kind of came together. Nice. I like

Marc Matthews: 14:07

that. That's a great story about being, being wrestling fans as well. And it's, it's odd to mentioned that cuz earlier this week I found I had some time on my hands and I was a wrestling fan back when I was sort of like 13, 14. This was like the prime era of like stone cod, Steve Austin and the Royal Mankin, that whole era. And I was watching, um, Videos from back then. And I think I was watching, I ended up watching a, a Hulk Hogan. This is going way back for even further. Mm-hmm. versus Undertaker. And it's amazing how like wrestling just circles back and it sort of underpins mm-hmm.. Well, a lot of where the, the social media, not a lot of it, but some of the social media I do as well, whenever I'm responding to things. So I can't think of anything. I'll just find a wrestling gift.. I chuck in there. Yeah. Yeah. But it's great to find that somebody else has done sim something similar and is on a, on a similar pathway with that, but No, that's good. That's a cool, um, that's a cool, cool way to come up with the name.

Dan Cox: 14:57

Yeah. There's so many lessons though that come from wrestling, much like you think of with KISS and the aesthetics of it all and, and, and, and, and almost, um, what they, what they call gimmicks, their characters are gimmicks and, and in music. I think that the legends that you put up there kind of have these gimmicks. Like they're not these people that are living this. It's definitely themselves. And in wrestling, like I think in music, best gimmicks are when it's a person just turned up to 10 or 11, you know, If we wanna just talk final tap. Yeah. Um, and, and, and I feel like that's something that we've kind of tried to do as well with whenever, whenever I play in the, in on the stage, I've got these fingerless gloves. I always wear a different leather jacket. And, and the show that we've got coming up next week, we're all in these black sequins. And it's like, we are not gonna wear that stuff out and about, but it also doesn't feel uncomfortable when we do it on the stage because we're just finding these characters, these gimmicks, they're kind of the same as the characters that Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley would play and all that. Um, undertaker is in, in wrestling or stone called Steve Austin. They're, they're taking, they're taking elements of themselves and just turning it up. And, and I think that, uh, uh, any, any classical, yeah, you know, Freddie Mercury and David Bowie and Michael Jackson and all, and all those people are kind of a gimmick that they have, that they are living and turning up 10 and, and kind of presenting themselves. And then that's, you know, like that's how, that's how you make, you make a, you can make a good connection with audiences by, by, uh, Being more than, uh, a shoegazer, which, you know, it is, is all fine if that's what you do. But, but I, I think it's more fun to kind of find that character and, and turn it into something.

Marc Matthews: 16:29

No, I, I'm with you on that. Well, I totally agree, and I think when you see live accents, you can see that they've put the effort to make something different, something visual, um, to go with their music as well. I think it's, I think it's a massive part of the overall show. And also it, it comes back to the fact that there is something memorable as well, and it's a different experience that they would get otherwise. Um, and it's more fun for you, I think, as the performer as well. Oh yeah. I remember when I was in a band and I perform, admittedly we didn't go down the stretch of having the outfits and stuff like that, but I would always think to myself, you kind of want to, I was never, never a shoegazer, which is probably why I made so many mistakes when I was performing live Right, yeah, me too. But I thought to myself, you know what? There's another guitarist in the band, um, so I can sort of get away with it a bit. And it was heavy metal. So once again Yeah. Yeah. There, there's some leniency there. But yeah, I think. Certainly you got put on a show, and I think that's key. And from what I've read from the, the feedback and I've seen and the various bits and pieces I've seen online, um, you as a live outfit certainly do put on a show. Oh, we, we'd track. Yeah. Yeah. Which is amazing. So with regards to the band itself, so how did you sort of meet, I, I, I, from what I can gather is it was yourself and Oliver to begin with, and then Melissa Yeah. Joined further down the line. How did you meet Oliver? How did things get started?

Dan Cox: 17:40

Um, so, so Oliver and I, um, I'm a couple years older than Oliver, but we both met in school together and, uh, you know, we both hang out in the music room and we were in different bands, but we got to know each other that way. And you start jamming as you do, and you've got some free time at, at school or at breaks. And, um, and, and we just kind of always, we just, um, there are a couple of people that I've, that I've been lucky enough to meet and can just partner it with in, in terms of music and just I do something and they do something that completes it. And it's always that, it's always that way. And so Oliver and I have been making music together for, um, although Pensacola AIST is. Probably about five, five years old now. Um, we've been writing music together for about 15 years, I think, going, going way back to school, um, in different, in different bands and, and in different form. Um, but, but this Pensacola mist, um, was, was the first time that we tried to really come up with something that felt, um, cohesive and that we kind of had an idea in mind from the start. Um, we're from a really small town called Be Tweed that's right on the, the border of England and Scotland. And, uh, we're 60 miles away from New Castle and 60 miles away from Edinburgh. So we're, we're quite, we're quite out the way. Um, and, and there. And it, uh, being quite rural, there's, there's not a, a huge population here. So you find yourself, there's the same 20, 30 musicians of your age group that just circulate between bands and, and of course it's always the case that there's probably three drummers in town and you're all trying to get ahold of them. And, uh, and when you can get ahold of them, you've got. You tend to have four vastly different styles of musicians that come together when you're in that sort of situation. And so what we've made in the past has been really fun, but has not been, uh, yeah, I guess cohesive, the best, best word for it. We're all coming with these different influences and you get something interesting, but sometimes you kind of want to want to create a, a piece that feels like it belongs altogether and that it's really kind of trying to say something without getting distracted by, by how four different genres might approach it, I think. And, um, and so overnight, uh, started Pensacola Myth, um, primarily as, as a, as a, as a home studio, um, uh, project where we would write together, we would write songs that we believed in, and then we'd maybe try and find the band to fill the gaps after that point. Um, which we knew would be tricky, but at least we'd have some material to kind of start the ball rolling. Is someone interested in fill in the shoes of this drum track that we've already written or, or, or this second guitar part or something? And, and, and I guess that's how Pensacolas, uh, started in, in the

Marc Matthews: 20:11

form that it's now. I think that's a really cool way of doing it, I think, cuz with regards to certain instruments in a band, you probably know this, they're, they're a lot harder to find than others. Um, drummers for example, finding a good drummer is, uh, can be very, very tricky and bass players as well. And so actually not having that hindrance of thinking, oh, we can't actually do anything until we find these two other, or three, or however it may be other individuals. Mm-hmm. is actually quite nice to hear that you can just start writing, um, and creating this, this body of work and thinking, actually now we can plug the gaps with the people we find along the way. So I'm, yeah, I think that's a fantastic way of doing it. So how long did you sort of write music with, with Oliver before Melissa came onto this?

Dan Cox: 20:53

Yeah, so, um, uh, so we did a couple of guitar based albums, um, uh, just the two of us. And um, and we were still at that point. Essentially preparing material to, to play live with a band. And, um, eventually, I mean, the technology's at the core of everything that we've done with Pensacola and missed up, up to this, up to this day. We'd never, you know, we, we couldn't do it without the technology that, that we use now. And, and I think so many other synth wave and synth pop artists, uh, would, would say the same with how heavily they rely on what they can do with technology that's in front of them. So it was having garage band on, on my Mac that let us do those first two albums, and it, it was free and it was on there and it's really easy to use. And, um, and, and that, uh, and, and that, that helped us kind of create that first vision. Then when we got to try and find the musicians to, to fill the gap, it just, um, it just didn't really happen, I guess, I guess we're in that, that rural area, again, we couldn't find somebody that. Um, felt that same material. We tried a couple of dramas who came along and they kind of liked the idea, but I, I, I, and I, I absolutely understand this, but coming into a project that's somewhat established in terms of the material there, which was helpful for us to know who we want to be meant that they felt like there was a lack of ownership on their part. And, and I completely get that, and they'd kind of want to be involved in the origin of the material as, as well. So that, that, that made, that made entire, you know, that made sense to, to me. Um, so we had just about given up on ever playing live and thought, you know, maybe this is fine. This is the future. We can make this music and we maybe can't play it live, but we can keep writing and recording and sending it out there and, and, and try and get it across in other ways without having, uh, without being in front of a, a live audience. And it was, um, then that we discovered that churches who were a band that we were both fans of, but didn't, you know, we, we weren't, weren't mega fans, but we had been fans throughout the years. That was when we discovered that they played for 10 years without a, a live drummer. And, you know, they were using samples and they were using drum machines and, and we thought maybe that's something that we can do. So that's, that's, that that single-handedly twisted the genre of music that we write because us playing guitar with a drum and back and track, we were concerned, would feel quite karaoke. Um, and we didn't, we never wanted to kind of be like, like a fake band. We thought, well, how do we turn this into actually what we do then? And then this is now this, this is now a part of us. It's not a limitation. It's, it's a, it's what makes us is playing with this technology. So that's when we just started to dip our toes more and more into, in a sense, and bringing out our PGAs and trying to build up the tracks. And then, and then all of a sudden the guitars were, were staying, staying, hanging up here. You know, that, that's, that's by the buy. We're just sitting and, and writing stuff, uh, writing stuff with keys instead. And, um, . And so we, we we'd, uh, we did two albums. We did one album, this Neon City that was our first kind of synthy, synth based album. And we just loved working with that material. Unlock so much more in us. So I'm, I'm not sure as, as a musician yourself, whether you've ever felt the same, uh, uh, the same way you, you pick up the guitar or you pick up your instrument and you just find yourself kind of using the same riffs, using the same chord patterns. And, and what this lets do was, uh, kind of like start again, but with, with some of the songwriting knowledge that we'd kind of developed over the years, but this entirely new way of thinking with, with looking at keys and, and everything. So it was really refreshing to us to do that and, and let us have the live show. So this is a really long way of, of, of going around telling you that, go ahead. That when we had, uh, we had want to believe the album, um, the album released last year, uh, we were looking for a female vocalist. In fact, we, we kind of always had our eye on a female vocalist. And, and again, similarly, we just didn't find one that, that, that would really work or that would mesh with our style very well. And, um, And Melissa had actually worked on, um, a, a project that Oliver was doing, um, where he was uploading covers to YouTube every week and he would get guest vocalists from, uh, we've, we've both been involved in theater as well, and, and Oliver more so than, than myself. Uh, he's been in fringe productions and musicals and he has lots of contacts who can sing. So he was, he was working with all these different musicians and, and different, um, different singers. And Melissa was one that, that stuck in my mind certainly is just having this really beautiful, sweet, soft voice. But it, but it, but it wasn't apologetic, which was quite difficult to find, I think, because sometimes you can be quite sickly sweet. I feel like there's, she, she's this, um, I kind of call her bittersweet sometimes cuz she's, she's really, she's yeah, got that really sweet soft vocals, but there is a bite in it and, and you don't wanna get on the wrong side of it and you don't wanna unlock it when, you know, you don't want, you wanna to be there when she kind of unleashes. Uh, so it just, it just worked out so well. We asked her to do song sex and violence on that album. And, um, and yeah, I guess the rest is history. It just worked so well that we thought, let's see, let's see, let's try this out. So we tried out doing some gigs with her for a year, building her into the material we already had, and kind of writing things in the studio. Um, and, and then we thought, this is it, this is, this is just the way it was meant to be. So last, uh, I think last November, December we announced that she was gonna join, uh, full-time and yeah, it, it's just, it feels like we're complete now.

Marc Matthews: 27:15

Yeah, that's, um, that's a fantastic answer. And there's a few, few bits I, I took away from what you mentioned there. So circling back, sorry,

Dan Cox: 27:20

once you wind me up, it's

Marc Matthews: 27:21

hard to stop. No, no, no, no, no. There's loads of good stuff in there. So, circling back to what you said about playing the same riffs and I've almost did the same mm-hmm., I remember being in a band and it, maybe it's cuz of my own limitations as a guitarist. Um, and maybe I could have put more time into it, the whole 10,000 hours as you were Sure. Yeah. But I was finding myself, I'd always jam out the same riff and I'd be playing the same sort of lead bit and it would always be like, oh man, I've heard this bit before. And I, I was stagnant. I was, I couldn't come up with anything new. Admittedly, I probably wasn't the main songwriter in the band I was in. Which is total polar opposites, what I do now, where why I am this songwriter and what I release. But I very much agree with what you said there. And it wasn't until I started writing the electronic music and started using keys. I'm not a piano uh, player. I'm not, I'm not a keyboard player either, but programming is my friend, um, in this instance. Mm-hmm.. But when it came to the Sonic sca soundscape available to me with the different instruments and also the, the, the variety of different things I could find online, it sort of opened up this whole new world, as you mentioned then about where you find it when you in, in your, in the band itself. So certainly being down that route, and it's probably the same for a lot, a number of, number of, um mm-hmm. producers and artists, I would say. Kind of, yeah. It just opens up this world of possibilities when you're, it's amazing really, when you think about it, and I think this touches on something. I had had an interview last week and we were talking about the accessibility of technology. And the accessibility means that you could have a 13 inch MacBook, Or there are other devices available if you Oh, of course. Um, . Yeah. Just in case somebody does want, uh, sponsorship further down the line.. Um, yeah, I mean you could have that and you could write, I mean, the amount of stuff that I hear that has been produced on just that alone is, is incredible. Mm-hmm.. Um, so yeah, there's that. And then it was the, the edge on the vocals as well, which I totally agree with. And I dunno what you think, but I think churches as, as an influence. I know I released a song a few years, but a couple years ago and there was very much a church's influence on that and mm-hmm. and there's kind of an edge or a bite. I mean, that might be slightly to do with the accent, um, but there's certainly, yeah, of course. An edge to that. And I think that's, I think you're right in that sense, and I think that's what you need. And in particular, that's song that you mentioned, sex and violence, which is amazing by the way. And how I haven't been streaming that on repeat before. I dunno. But I've been listening to that all week and Thank you. It's such, such a good song. The audience listening. If you want a first sort of dive into Pensacola mis, go check out that tune, obviously check out everything else as well. But I mean, that is a fantastic good recommendation. Thank you. Yeah, I absolutely love it. Um, and it's like you said there about the whole, the grittiness behind the vocal. If you didn't have it, I don't, well, if, if Melissa didn't have it, I don't think you would have that, that edginess that comes with the chorus as well. Mm-hmm., if it was a soft vocal with that, that that line and that particular hook, it wouldn't work, would it? Yeah.

Dan Cox: 30:00

Yeah, yeah,

Marc Matthews: 30:00

yeah. You're right. Amazing stuff. So let's take a quick break from this episode so that I can tell you about a free resource that I made for you. It's a PDF checklist that describes what you need to do properly prepare a mix for mastering. So you've done the hard work and you love your mix, yet suitably preparing a mix for mastering is often overlooked by musicians, resulting in delayed sessions, excessive back and forth conversation and frustration on both parts. I want to help fix that. So if you want this free resource, just go to www.symusicmastering.com as this checklist will help and guide you to make the mastering process as smooth, transparent, and exciting as possible. So again, the URL is www.sentmusicmastering.com for this free preparing a mix for mastering checklist. Let's get back to the episode. Kind of circling back right to the beginning, you mentioned how you, yourself and Oliver started this project and you weren't quite sure whether it was gonna go live depending on who came in. Mm-hmm.. Mm-hmm.. What was the initial goal and has that changed over time?

Dan Cox: 31:02

I guess it's, it's twisting along, along the hallway. We, you know, we, um, we had aspirations to be regionally famous. I think that that was what we started with the guitar band is we want to, you know, the Northeast has got a really great music scene. Mm-hmm., um, quite, it's quite guitar heavy. Um, but I think that when we started, we thought there's no reason why we can't get involved in some of those conversations too. And, and, you know, and that was our lot. That's what we would be happy with. We'd have just done some of the circuit there made friends with, with the people that, that we were hearing on, on that scene. Um, but then once we, once we opened up and, um, and changed into this syn synth, um, synth vibe, we've, we've just. We've kind of, this is actually something that I, I've also stolen from kiss, but, but it's something that we work with too, is, is to try and be the band that we haven't seen or that we want to see live. And, um, there are certainly many, many bands that do everything that we do on a bigger scale and a and, and, and with, with, I guess more bells and whistles. But, um, on, on the scale of the shows that we do in, in sort of small, mid-size venues, like I still haven't seen someone that, that, that brings in the fully programmed light show that we do and, and have the, the larger than life soundscape that that's created through that. And, um, I mean, that, that sounds cocky and I, I certainly don't, I don't mean it to be, but I think, I think primarily it comes to coming to a Pensacola Mist show, uh, oh, it's in the downstairs of this pub, for instance, or it's in this small venue. We've, we've. We saw, um, blues in last week, and then you've got this big light show that just like I did, didn't expect to see something like this in this place. That's, that's something that we, that we kind of love playing with. And, you know, we, using some of the staging, uh, experience that we've had and, and the memories of shows that we've been to, you know, what are the moments that you, you, you remember when you leave a show? Um, and why do you remember that? And, and, and some, and most times for me it's because there was a real, um, there was, there was a real, I don't wanna say rehearsed element to it, but there's, there's a blocking moment of saying, in this point, in this song, this thing will happen. And it may just be that. So when I saw the midnight a few, few weeks ago, the, the saxophonist goes to his spotlight in the stage and he plays, and, and you remember. And I can see that now and I remember it. And that's, you know, that's not saying that, that it's disingenuine, but it's like he had it marked there to stand at that point, and the crowd go crazy. And if he was stood at the back in the back line doing the same thing, it would've still been impressive. But it wouldn't have left that, that mark. And so, you know, that's, that's the sort of level of, of things that we want to try and do is, uh, we, we want you to have half a dozen things that you remember when you leave seeing us as, as these kind of memory markers. Um, I think that's it. I think, I think that we, we'd be happy with that. You know, it's, it's so great to, to get it out to new people and, and to kind of widen the net. And it's always, it's, I love seeing the, the countries that have streamed us and even if we've only had one stream in a country, to just add another country to the list and say we've been streamed in over a hundred countries, it's great. You know, I want one of those scratch maps and just see, see even one stream in every country would be such a lovely thing to have, you know, just, just to say we've been heard all around the world, you know, it's, it's, it's kind of small, manageable things, but it's, I guess ultimately we just wanna keep having fun with what we do and, uh, and, and keep pushing ourselves. Um, un until, well, I dunno, I guess, I guess until we feel we've done it all. And I don't think that's ever gonna happen.

Marc Matthews: 34:33

No, it's a nice response. I like that. And um, it kind of, uh, what you've basically done there, you've answered my, what was gonna be my next question, which is amazing, uh, which was about the live show, what the audience can expect. And I think you've articulated it, um, very, very well there and what you've said. And just touching on what you said there about the midnight moderately jealous that you've seen it, by the way. Cause I haven't. Um, I did see being there, so on social media, it's amazing when you go to gigs like that. And I've had this, not a midnight gig, but I've been to other show mm-hmm. And sometimes when you are feeling as an artist, maybe you hit a bit of a rut, you're not sure where it's going, and then you go watch a live act like The Midnight or someone like that, and it just re reignites that flame to think, you know what, I'm gonna go away from here. And it's moments like you said about the sax office stood mm-hmm. on the stage there. Um, and I've experienced something like that. So I'm a, I'm a huge Def Leopard fan. And I remember watching Def Leopard, um, it was on my birthday for a number of years ago at the MO Point card, and then it was the Hysteria tour. So Phil Collin work walks out. And he walked straight out to the middle, uh, like low lights, and then suddenly there's a beam of light on him. It's just him play the intro. And I'm just like, wow, this, this. Even now I've, I've get shivers when I talk about it and I'm just like, man, but

Dan Cox: 35:42

how strong is that memory? And how clear is that in your mind in exactly.

Marc Matthews: 35:45

I mean, I, I can remember bits and pieces from the rest of the gig, but I couldn't tell you what song was being played at the time. But there's that one moment and you're thinking, you know what, it's moments like that that sort of like inspire you to, to continue on as a musician, but also you can take that away. I'm not performing artist anymore, but it's certainly something and you can put all those pieces together and create this sort of, um, I think so Frankenstein hybrid show, which

Dan Cox: 36:08

is amazing. Yeah. Ma making set list is always fun. And, and in fact, this album we thought, um, more about the live show than any others as we've kind of established ourselves with what, what that live show means to, to us and what we want it to mean to the audiences. So there, there's definitely parts in these tracks that have how that will, um, How that will come across to the audience there. Sometimes it's easy to get stuck in what I like in the moment of being sat in, in the chair here on the screen, but it's been really helpful to kind of think a bit bigger and actually envi what that looks like on, on the stage. And, uh, and you know, it, it may be just like we, we have um, we have a song where we just leave, Melissa and I leave and we just, um, usually I, I use, I use Ableton to trigger all of the samples and all of the effects and, um, and, and I'm doing that with all the different parts so I can kind of remix it. I can drop the drums out, I can drop the bass out, I can edit and I can repeat bits. So they're all separate, separate tiles in Ableton. Um, but for that song, um, I just hit play and I've programmed that to just run. And Oliver just takes the stage and he's there on his own and he does this amazing performance of this track. You know, that he, that he's, his folks are so strong on it, we don't need anything else. We leave and people always, you know, they remember that bit too. We left and then we get, come back and it just keeps the, keeps the set fresh. Cuz even seeing bands that I've really enjoyed. By the 50th minute or the 15th song, you know, and I'm kind of feeling like it's a little Sammy sometime and, and to kind of break it up, um, something that certainly I enjoy seeing.

Marc Matthews: 38:03

Yeah, I totally agree with that. Um, and it's something that's echoed in music as well. And I had a conversation with another artist, uh, a number a, a weeks ago or a week or so ago, and it was when I sent a track across to the, uh, um, this producer and was like, can you just gimme a bit of feedback? And they said the exact same thing. It's like you have a song, it's much like a live performance as well, where you have that night and day and sometimes you need to reduce those dynamics to what's going on, just to keep the interest there. Cause if it's full throttle all the way through, you kind of like you mentioned there, um, I've been to Keith one, I'm like that. And at the end of it I'm like, it's just a blur, you know? Yeah. Mm-hmm. and having that night and day, and specifically when it's just one person, something different. Keeps the audience engaged, I think. I think it's a fantastic thing to do. Do you ever, that's fun. Um, perform down in, have you, how far into South for the audience listening? I'm based in the Southwest. How far south into the Southwest Have you

Dan Cox: 38:51

ever have you been? So we, um, we, so we started our live show about, uh, less than a year before the pandemic hit. So that was, that was good timing. Yep. And, uh, and so we just started to kind of know who we are and get our show together when we had to stop. And, um, so we, we've only done, you know, we've done about 20 gigs, but they're mostly been regionally here in the, in the northeast. Um, we have plans to do a tour later in the year, and we want to kind of cover a lot of, you know, most of the major cities. Uh, so, so hopefully we'll get that towards, you know, towards the end of the year, which will, which will be really fun to get in front of new audiences. Again, going back to technology and the sort of reach of social media and how brilliant the scene seems to be with Sent mm-hmm. is that everyone is, seems to be so supportive and, and when you have these sent groups, um, on Facebook pages or Instagram pages, And they start sharing, uh, about these gigs coming up. And there's just this instant, there's this instant, um, swell of support. You know, I, I feel, I feel quite, um, lucky to be involved in it. Even if, even if a very few people have have heard of us, there'd be enough to say, oh, there's this thing and they've got this show, and we'll go and see it. And once that starts on those pages, I, I reckon that we could get a, a, a nice size crowd. I mean, a nice size crowd to me is if we can get 20 people in the city we've never been in, I'm happy with that. You know, that's, that's, that's the start of something. But it feels like it's a really supportive scene and, uh, and I'm hoping that that will, uh, take us around the country a little further than, than just here in the Northeast.

Marc Matthews: 40:20

No, that would be amazing. The reason why I asked this is cuz I wanted to make sure they hadn't, hadn't missed out lady performing down this way? Not yet.

Dan Cox: 40:27

Not yet. Um, not yet. Not yet. We'll, we'll be down to you soon.

Marc Matthews: 40:30

I think the closest, I know there was a recent event in Bristol. So I live, I'm in Exeter. Um, Bristol's not that far and mm-hmm. there was a, there was a gig put on there, but, um, to, to echo what you said there about the support. I think if you were to say if, if, if a gig is put on whereby it is synth orientated, synth wave, synth pop, synth music mm-hmm., I think because the scene and the network and the, the shareability and the way content is shared by people in the scene, and though the fans of it as well and the artists, it's, it's different to what I've experienced before and I think you would, I think you get a crowd, um, specifically now people are hungry to go out and enjoy live music as well. Oh yeah. So you've put those two factors together. I

Dan Cox: 41:08

think, you know, there's friends around the country as well and, and, and, and label mates that, that we know, that we are keen to tie up with as well, that we've, we've not met in person yet, but we would love to do shows together. Young emperors in particular, we've been talking to quite a lot about doing some shows together, and I think that should work really well when that happens. And it's, so it's all a case of of, of when and not if and, uh, and, and yeah, the, yeah, you're, you're right. There's just, there's just these, these real solid, genuine sort of support and friendships in, in the sea. You know, there's very little, um, Bickering and negativity compared to some of the other stuff that that could be out there. And I think it's, I think it's because it's quite niche and, and it only, and, but it's quite rare still to know for everybody to know that it, it grows when everyone's in it together. Yeah, I

Marc Matthews: 41:50

agree. I think I've, I've, I say this on a lot of the podcast episodes in terms of how supportive the community is and how you meet and talk to new people every week. And specifically doing things like this podcast as well. I, I talk to so many different people, not only on the podcast, but outside of it as well in relation to it. And it is amazing con convert, sort of like compared to what I've experienced in other, in other musical genres. Mm-hmm., which is, which is totally fantastic. Um, but no, I look forward to seeing that and I obviously, I, I keep an eye on the page and whatnot and on Instagram and stuff and, and see where you guys performing. Cause I know I've been to a countless rock and metal gig, but admittedly I've never actually been to like, have I, no, no. I can't say I have ever actually been to like a synth wave, synth pop, synth music based gig. It's always been rocking out for me, so it'd be something different, something interesting. I'm sure there's,

Dan Cox: 42:37

there's a, there's a rumbling though, in the scene. I think that Bristol event I didn't get to. Um, but, but I was very envious not to be there. And I, you know, I kept my eye on it and what, and, and saw everything that was on socials with it. Mm-hmm.. And, uh, you know, I'm hoping that becomes a, a somewhat regular event that might be, that might become the UK Super Bowl or the WrestleMania of, uh, of synth is this is this Bristol event and, and you know, that would be brilliant. But, uh, um, yeah, it's, it, it's just, yeah, there's, there's a rumbling and, and again, until the midnight, I hadn't really seen anything that would, that was super sin. Again, our location hasn't really helped. The pandemic hasn't really helped, but, and, but it just feels as a, the time is, the time is right. In the next few years, there'll probably be plenty of opportunity to see, see

Marc Matthews: 43:17

more. I definitely think so. And I think also from a, like a production side of things, when I listen to now, I, I do admittedly listen to Radio One, I dive in and out, um mm-hmm. because I like to keep on top of like their current musical trends. And the more I listen to it, I can hear elements creeping in these little synth elements and these little, yeah, arpeggio, um, orators Rather and Arpeggio Orators and Synth Pass. It's

Dan Cox: 43:41

a brilliant lead. Yeah, it's a brilliant song. But Harry Styles, oh, I forget what that track is. This is where I don't usually check into radio on and I should know, but there's that Harry Styles song that's kind of taken over the last few months and I've had, we've had a number of people say, that sounds like a Pensacola mis song. You know, there's just that, that, that little way of thinking. That sort of like eighties the riff as it was, is that what it's called? The Yes, the Harry Styles Track. And, and you know, it's a brilliant song and I, I wish it was ours, but you can hear it. You, you, there's easy made synth covers in some of these like, um, pop hits these days now, so,

Marc Matthews: 44:13

yeah. Yeah. It's interesting you mentioned that one, cuz I follow Justin Hawkin from. On YouTube and he's got, uh, fantastic. I'd never knew this existed. It's, I can't, I think it's Justin Hawkins rides again. And I strongly recommend, even if you're not a Darkness fan, just go check it out audience, because he will, he, he kind of picks apart music and performances and things like that. And he did one on, David covered our massive white snake fan man. Mm-hmm.. And, um, but he did one on that song by Harry Starz and he pointed out how it's, um, the actual phrasing used in that song is the same as Aha take on me. But it's shifted. So they started, they started a different note. I know there's more to it than this, but he's described it way better than I can. And I think, I think in the Harry Stars one, they start one or two, no, no one or two notes ahead of Aha. Mm-hmm.. Um, but I think this just goes to show that how successful that song is, and then. It's essentially, if you look back into the eighties, it's, it, it's sort of like, it's been influenced by one of the, the biggest songs of the eighties and Take On Me By Our Heart. And it just goes to show how much that Sinn and that

Dan Cox: 45:21

eighties nostalgia noticed that riff. I was driving the comments, I went, wait a second, and I'm not one of these that says that every band should sue every other band for, for, cuz there's, you know, there are only so many notes and there's only so many orders. So I'm, I'm, that's all, that's all fair game. That's legally distinct enough. But I did notice it too, thinking , you can just transpose this a little bit and it kind of starts to work, but you know, it doesn't doesn't take it away. Take it. No,

Marc Matthews: 45:44

not at all. It's like you say, you've gotta find influence somewhere. I mean, find me someone who's just writing out of the blue who's like, says they have no influences and Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I I'd call them a liar. That that might be a bold statement by me there, . I'll probably get a lot of people saying I'm wrong,

Dan Cox: 45:57

but I don't know. I would, I would, I'd like to say actually as well that, that, yeah. You know, I've, I'm very envious of, um, Uh, what I would call proper songwriters who do take it very seriously and create this amazing art cuz there is a real art to, to songwriting like, obviously. But, um, but there are these different, there are these different sides and, and synth and the sort of synth that we do is, is trying to just kind of focus on fun and, and, you know, more than, more than trying to be transformative, trying to transform someone's life with the lyrics particular song, I find that quite freeing. Cause I'm not very good at lyrics. I think typically we, we, we have a good go. And, and in fact, actually that's part of the reason why we, um, we mostly create stories for our tracks rather than try and find something from within us. We kind of create, create a scenario and we create, um, create a scene and then we think, well, what does that character feel? And that kind of helps us kind of write through them rather than kind of something deep and meaningful within us. So I just wanna say in case there are any real serious songwriters listening, I'm absolutely envious of, of the, of what you can do and, uh, and, and, and, and I wish I could, but, uh, But that's, you know, that's not really what Pensacola myth is, is about.

Marc Matthews: 47:06

Well, I mean, in response to that, in all fairness, I think you're a fantastic, so Rose, so, um, thank you . Yeah, you do yourself a bit of a disservice, but No, I

Dan Cox: 47:12

think I, I worried there, I thought did, did I just slack off Pensacola myth too much? I certainly didn't mean to, but No, no, not, I can't get the balance right

Marc Matthews: 47:18

here, No, no, that's fine. So it kind of leads on that nicely to my next question cause I'm well aware of time here and this is what happens on this show. I, I often digress and I then look at the clock and I'm like, oh, actually I've, um, I haven't even got to the, the third part of the show yet., so, which is the songwriting and the compositional process behind the band. Um, how does that start? So obviously you've got Melissa on board now, so Yeah. Who, maybe that's the wrong sort of question. I wasn't gonna, I wasn't gonna say who's the main songwriter, but let's put it another way. How, how does a song come together?

Dan Cox: 47:48

Yeah. So, um, until this album, every song started with Oliver and I sat next to each other at this desk and a blank logic, um, document open and um, and we would. Pretty much always go straight to the bases and just figure out a, figure out a baseline that we liked, and then kind of built from there and kind of seen where, where it took us, um, the pandemic changed things again, that we had to work, um, separately for the first time. And a lot of the tracks on this next album have been, uh, originated separately and then finished together. Um, but there's, you know, there's no real, there's no real, this is the way it's done these days. Any anymore. You sometimes, sometimes ideas just hit and I'm, I'm sure you'll hear this from most people, but it could be, um, you just wake up in the morning and I'm humming a song that doesn't exist or that I hope doesn't exist. And then I, then I come upstairs and try and turn that into something as a 10 minute sketch, and then we come back to it later or, um, or, or, or it's an idea. It's, it's, it's the, the lyrics to something that kind of like just hit, like, that's great. And I don't think I know a song that sings about that one thing. So, Um, so maybe that's the start of something and we kind of take it. But I think my favorite way is the blank project with Oliver and I sat next to each other and as frustrating as that can be sometimes to, to be onto a loser, uh, or to struggle to kind of build it into what we expect it could be. Um, when it does work, it's just worth it, you know, that, that high of going, okay, this is great, and the song starts to spiral and, and just unfold itself and kind of write itself. Sometimes it feels like when we, when we get onto the right

Marc Matthews: 49:24

track. Nice. I like that. It's quite, it's quite refreshing as well to hear that you are together songwriting, cuz in the, in the electronic world that we live in, in particular, when it comes to music production, I mentioned this earlier about the accessibility of music and it's fantastic that you can collaborate with someone on the other side of the world and you can create something incredible. But it's also quite nice to hear that they're, that you are sat next to Oliver and writing at the same. Couch

Dan Cox: 49:49

co-op all the way. Marc Matthews: Yeah. Yeah. So Melissa, where does, where does Melissa fall into it? Is she local to you guys or is this where you, so Melissa's in Edinburgh. Um, okay. So we, we, we get fewer days in the studio with her. Um, again, the time, the timing of her joining has, has been quite tricky. I've, I'd like to see us go back to more three, three-way blank projects in this room. Um, there's, there's only one track actually on the, out on this next album that started in that way. And it's really, you know, it's really refreshing. It feels really different because we had those three opinions kind of going into it, into it. Um, and that's a track called Afraid to Stay the Night, uh, which which was one of the first days we, we spent with Melissa after thinking is this, is this a, a permanent thing? What would it be like if we wrote a song that included, that included Melissa from the off rather than trying to put her into something afterward? And, um, and, and, yeah. So that, I mean, that, that's what, that's what we'd really like to do. Uh, Melissa is actually. Very good at lyrics. So she's been, uh, really useful to us cuz Oliver and I have spent so many hours in absolute silence where we just can't find the four words that we need. Fill that pre chorus before we get in there that don't sound, that doesn't sound really cheesy or really lame, but also sounds as though we thought about it a little bit. And, uh, and, and so sometimes, well, more than once, and, uh, I dunno quite how Melissa feels about this, but we've gone, we'll just leave that blank and we'll see what Melissa can come up with and, uh, and usually it's, I mean, all the time it's golden. We just keep it and it's un unchanged from that point. So, you know, that's, that's a real, that's a real key that she's bringing into our, into our songwriting there. But, um, she doesn't have, uh, a musical background in that she, uh, um, uh, knows how to play any instruments, but she, she has listened to music throughout her whole life. She's a big fan. She's a big fan of, of, of music and always has been, again, she's been a musical. She's a fantastic thing. So it'll be so great to see what that, what that, what that can bring to the studio when we're in, when we're in the space, uh, going ahead. Um, so yeah, we've just, we've just begun that songwriting process with Melissa, really. But I'm excited to see what it means when we managed to block a weekend in the studio together and see what we can make.

Marc Matthews: 51:57

No, it does sound very exciting. So, so my next question off the back of that is, you mentioned there about earlier when you have a blank project, a blank slate. Mm-hmm. blank Canvasers were, and then you, you throw some ideas down. So this is probably the million dollar question. How do you know? Cause I dunno about you, but I start projects and I start, and then I'll put them to the side and I'll start something else. Mm-hmm. and I'll do that and I'll revisit. How do you know when you're onto a winner? How do you know when you like, actually this

Dan Cox: 52:23

song's got legs. I think every album that we've done, um, we have about, between 60 and a hundred, uh, track that we've started for that album, you know, and so most of them end up being something that we don't pursue further. And, um, And sometimes we try and it feels like we're trying too hard and if it ever feels like we're trying too hard, then it probably wasn't meant to be. Um, and there's some nice phrases in some of those tracks and, um, and occasionally I go back to see if there's anything that we can pull out and use somewhere else or, or to see if all of a sudden inspiration will hit with fresh eyes on it a year later. But, but it tends to be, if, if we sit and we're thinking for too long or we've not been excited about it for a little while, then it's just, we'll just leave it and, and we'll start again. And, uh, so some, some sessions we might start six songs and, and we get, and we get 10, 15, 20 minutes, half an hour in 40 minutes and go and we're just not feeling it and move on. Try another one. It it, it feels like quite a natural, um, decision to make, to drop a track and find another one. I think, I think it's that, I think it feels that way that we are always trying to find a track that will unveil itself rather than try to create a track, which is silly cuz it's probably is the same thing I guess. But, but sometimes you've got the wrong ingredients to start

Marc Matthews: 53:37

with. Yeah, I like that idea. And, um, I think it's a, it's a great way of thinking in terms of, rather than, well in what you said there, and I think it echoes an interview I did, I think it was last year, um, I think it, who was it with? I can't remember who it was with now. But the, but the artists mentioned how by, they just write songs and songs and songs and songs. And eventually there'll be that one song that sort of stands about, stands above the rest. Mm-hmm. rather than trying to write the perfect song. I think it's, it is very similar in a way, I guess to actually, I know when I'm writing, I dunno, copy for a website or I'm writing a bio or something. Yeah. Or just anything. I'll just write and then I'll go back and ref refresh and then sort of like, yeah, revisit it and make and see, see what it's like and rehash it. So it's very, yeah, I'm with you on that one. Right. Rather than trying to think, all right, I'm gonna write the next masterpiece. Just see, just kind of see what happened. So in that it's

Dan Cox: 54:23

always gotta be fun. Yeah. I think, well, yeah. Yeah. That's what it starts with is if we're not having fun and that's why we did this. This was our little escape. We had very, we know, other than trying to maybe do some shows, the very start, it was just, We had some free time and it was always fun. So let's keep it, keep it fun. So as long as it's fun, it kind of like worked itself out. Yeah,

Marc Matthews: 54:41

totally on board with that. And I think as soon as it doesn't become fun, it turns into a parttime, a part-time job, which I've, I've been down that route, , and then yeah, that's when it can get a bit laborious. But no, it sounds like whatever you're doing is working by, by which is, which is great. So I'm, well, once again, I'm, I'm, I'm aware of time, so there's a few songs I wanted to talk about, but I'm gonna have to sort of like shorten my list. It works.. Um, so Horizon, uh, correct me if I'm wrong, that's your latest single. It is, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Can you tell the audience, uh, listening, if they haven't heard it before, sort of the, the story behind Horizon? What can they

Dan Cox: 55:11

expect? Yeah. Um, well, horizon is, uh, was I guess an, an Oliver, primarily an Oliver idea that, that he brought to the table that we kind of, that we kind of finished. But again, thinking of the live show, we try and keep, um, we try and keep the energy up on, on a lot of tracks, but we are aware, as you said before, sometimes that can feel, um, That can be overwhelming and border and annoying if you've just got lots of noise and lots of energy all the time. So, so Horizon is, is quite a, I think of it as, as more of a chill out track. It's, you know, but it, it has quite a fast tempo to it. It kind of, so it keeps driving, it keeps driving through, but without, with trying to create some space within the track. Um, it, it's the story of, uh, of, uh, a bank robbery gone wrong, essentially. This is again, where, where sin worked really well for us and, and sort of that nostalgia for the eighties that we can mine all these ridiculous and gr and great eighties movies and, and plots and think, does it sound like it could have been, uh, an eighties movie? Great. That's, that's okay. That's, it's not, it might be over the top for, for folk or for, for indie or, uh, or, or something similar. But, but we can, we can write a song about bank robbery. That's okay. That's not unusual here.. It's a safe space. It works out well. Um, we, we, I, I guess we tried to make an earworm. That's our, our choruses tend to, um, Have a few elements to them. And I think this one, we tried to just scale it back. And so essentially the, the course, pretty much the phrase play it cool over and over. It's, it's the person trying to tell themselves in this situation that they're failing at to keep cool, stay calm, to play it cool, play it cool. And, and uh, and, and so yeah, that's kind of like the little, the little hook, the earworm that we want to kind of create with that one. Um, of course, mixing it and, and getting it ready for release. I, I, I got slightly sick of hearing play Cool because it's in that track 64 times and, and you'll know how many times you listen to a track. So I must have heard play cool, play it cool, you know, over 10,000 times. It, it, by this point . But uh, but yeah, that, that, that's the story horizon. It's, uh, yeah, it's this, it's this kind of upbeat, chill track that's, uh, that's, I, I guess got this sort of radio friendly feel, I guess because of that, that repetitive hook in it in the Cora.

Marc Matthews: 57:23

Yeah. And I think it, we, it is fair to say that I think listening to your catalog of music, um, you're very good as an outfit, a writing hook. And it's something that I find that sticks in my head a lot. Uh, listening to your music you mentioned there about the Earworms in particular and a lot, uh, I think when it comes to the sort of music that you are releasing, it's quite similar to the stuff that I've done as well, and I've said this before on the podcast in terms of like, I'll play the music to someone else. For example, my, my girlfriend, then if I find her humming the mm-hmm.. I mean that, that I set that sometimes as a barometer of, of success. Yeah. Yeah. In terms of like, okay, if I can get someone who's totally new and hasn't heard before, because like you said there, I mean, if you're mixing a track or producing it, you listen to the same thing over and over again, regardless of whether it's any good or not. Mm-hmm.. Yeah. It gets stuck in your head. Um, but no, I think it felt, like I said there, you, you guys have fantastic at writing hooks. Um, thank you. And I, I've gotta say, and which kind of leads me on nicely to the next question, which is, I mentioned this song earlier about, um, the song called Sex and Violence, which is probably my favorite, favorite track that I've heard so far. So you mentioned that was the first song if I'm Right with Melissa on vocals. Is that correct? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So just a bit of a story behind that one there.

Dan Cox: 58:33

Um, yeah, so I, I guess this was when we were trying to play with, um, heavy sense because we'd use sc lightly and, and, uh, in sort of synth pop ways. And, and, and it's not, it's not a pure synth wave track by any means, but we did try to like, make it a little darker and, and kind of bring out some of the sort of dark, dark and elements of it. Um, and, and write a melody with Melissa in mind. That was, yeah, that was the very first time. So I've got a great demo track of Oliver singing that in what he expect Melissa's voice to sound like, and I'd like to put that out there some, some point because it's quite funny. But, um, . But, but it was about creating the drama and creating, um, the, the big bombastic feel of that one. And, uh, and I, there's a, that was the first time I used a trick that I've used a couple of times since that I noticed first in, um, I think it was night call by Kavinsky. Where he's punctuating each of those start notes, um, with a really deep, uh, like Steinway or like a big piano sound of boom and like just letting that rumble through and let how, how powerful that feels kind of drive that track on and, and, and how the dynamic just increase so much. If you've got that, that low, big, heavy, punchy sound that kind of underpins it, then you've kind of free, you've got some ground in there to just build up and build up and kind of give us some height as well. Um, you know, so that, that was a really fun track to, to work on. Um, bringing in the ops and, and, and Oliver, um, Oliver and I, the way that we, the way that we work so well together I think is that, Oliver, when he comes up with his tracks, might put in lots and lots and lots of ideas, and they can maybe feel like they need a little bit of focus. And I can come in and, and, and bring a little bit of focus in. And that might be in, in fact, on sex and violence. There's just a four note rift. Do, do, do. There's more than four notes there. But anyway, it's, it's a really simple, it's a really simple part, but, um, it just ties all those other bits into like a, a central, central, um, pattern. That's the, that's the track that it's going down and then these other parts spin off it. And, um, and that wasn't there before. And, and what Oliver does to me is that I feel like my, my tracks sometimes need, um, a level of, uh, uh, Unpredictability or they need a little bit more energy, I might get stuck doing a sort of repeating rift that kind of falls in, in a really nice pattern in nice art. But then I kind of keep it too contained and Oliver can explode it out. So it works really well together because his, he comes to my ideas and makes them bigger, and I kind of come to his ideas and focus them down and they meet somewhere in the middle, uh, and sex. And I think one of favorite examples of, of the two of us kind of doing what we do better on that track and then being a showcase for Melissa's vocals for the first time, you know, that that's a real great introduction to, I guess what we want the next part of Pensacola is to

Marc Matthews: 1:01:19

be like, no, that, that's really, really cool. And I like the idea that you mentioned that about, um, augmenting or, or extenuating the initial hit of the bar with like a Steinway. And you can certainly hear that. And it's that impact that is really, really good on that track. Um, and it's something that I like to do in productions as well, whether that's, um, bringing in an extra sort of kick element during a chorus. Mm-hmm. or just, uh, sort of like automating. Automating the volume or, or just changing the velocity of a sample slightly just to get that actual punch and impact come through and add in dynamics. And I think it's perfectly sort of, uh, showcased in that song, which, which is amazing. And I it's so nice as well. You're, I'm, I'm envious of your position in your, in your band that you've got that, those two opposite forces coming together in, in this malmstrom and creating, I'm very lucky. This amazing music which, um, which is, once again, going back to what I said earlier about the accessibility of music and being able to write and produce on your own and there is that solitary element that actually sometimes it's nice to have someone else there to bounce ideas off of. Which in saying that, the community is great for that. Cuz I know for a fact there's the number of artists I can send a track to and they'll give me really honest and really, really good feedback. Um, so it swings roundabout suggestion. That's

Dan Cox: 1:02:33

great. Can I ask you a question actually, but Yeah, sure. Based, based on something that. A feeling that I feel, and I, I'm not aware of it until it happens, and I want to see whether this is something that happens with you too. But I might come up with a track or Oliver and I come up with a track and I get really excited about it, and then I'll show it to my wife or I'll show it to a friend. And at that moment I realized there's something that I really don't like in it, or that I cringe and, and I had never heard it before until I know that someone's listening to it first time. And then I'd go, then I kind of cover up and say, oh, that'll be different. That, that, you know, we'll, we'll, but I hadn't realized I didn't like it until someone new is listening to it. And, and it's instant. And I, there's no nothing different except from a different set of ears. And I just wonder whether that's something that you've found as well, you were saying about, about, um, having you, your girlfriend humming the hook or something, and that being a, a win. But do you ever have that on the flip side to, to realize that maybe something's not quite work that you didn't realize?

Marc Matthews: 1:03:22

Yeah, I have, and it's, it's happened when I've released music as well. Oh yeah.. Yeah. So I, I'm one of those ones whereby I'll have a song and it gets to a point where I'm just like, I've gotta, I've gotta call it now and I know there's a little bit some pieces I'll be able to, to change, but. I've had it where I've been with friends and they've got a playlist going, and a song of mine comes on and I'm like, uh, and I start and I sort of grimace And they're like, what? What? Like, you've released it? And I'm like, yeah. I just, I, I dunno, maybe I'm being the, the diva thing saying I don't like listening to my music, but No, I certainly do. Yeah. Um, and then I do, I go, what do I do with it off the back of that? Yeah. It's, it's sometimes I go late,

Dan Cox: 1:03:57

late in the game then

Marc Matthews: 1:03:59

when it's, well, yeah, yeah. There in that instance. But if it's a demo, for example mm-hmm., um, I dunno, I think with the demo, it depends if they, if they point something out to me and say, have you considered changing that? I'll probably go in and do it or have a look at it. But if it's me as an individual, I think when I'm at the point where I'm sending demos out, like, and letting people listening to it, I think I'm almost happy with how it is. Right. Right. And I'll leave it as it is. But I, of what I do now is, cuz otherwise what I find is I binge at it and I'll go away and listen and I'm, I'm forever I'll listen to a, listen to a demo and I'll be like, oh, I need to change that. I need to change that. And I'll just keep going. It's perpetual. So I just knock it on the head. Whereas if someone turns around to me and says, actually Mark, I mean you could probably do with a bit more high end there, maybe bring that hat down or maybe you need to add some high strings here, or bring them up in the mix. And I'd be like, actually, yeah, you're probably right. So I'll go ahead and do it. So I think for me personally, I'm probably more responsive to other people when they're listening. Right. Two demo of mine. Yeah. And then I kind of like with me, just vocals. Vocals are the one that, that I toy with for ages with the level. Mm-hmm., I'm like, oh, it needs to be up there. Or now I'll bring it down or up there. So what I do now is off the back of that is, um, whenever I bounce out a mix, I'll always do like a zero DB vocal and then I'll do a plus one and then a minus one. Mm. Right. And then when it comes to the mastering stage mm-hmm., I'll go in a master or whoever's mastering it. Yeah. And I'll send all three. And then, because when it's mastered, it can then often change the, well it's gonna, it's gonna affect the, the dynamics in the track. So, yeah. I dunno, it's a long-winded answer to the question. Yeah. Very long, long-winded answer to that one. There, there was another thing I was gonna add to it, but it's totally slipped my mind. um, oh, that was it. Yeah. So, um, about when someone listens to your song. So I had this conversation with an artist last week and it was whereby, um, you send your song out or someone listens to it and they actually say it's not, they sort of grim us a bit and say, no, I'm not keen on that track. Right. Um, and I've done that, and then I've just shelved that song Totally. And Right, right. Sometimes I think you have to go with your gut, and I think it's quite a good song. Mm-hmm., but someone says to me, actually, no, it's not that great. And, and I think off the back of that interview, I was gonna, I was gonna say, actually, you know what, I'm gonna persevere with it and I'm gonna go out and I'm gonna release it. Or at least put it as a side B. So, no, it's tricky when other people listen to your music. Once again, it's a very long-winded answer. Um, I love it. Yeah. I, I, it depends on the, it depends on the environment. Um, I,

Dan Cox: 1:06:24

I think I just build it into my process now of, of when I'm, when I feel like I'm making progress with a track, I, I put that out there. To someone and, uh, um, I dunno if I'm lucky or unlucky, but the, the people I ask to listen to it don't tend to really give me any sort of constructive, uh, feedback on it. They, they'll just go, typically will just go, oh, yeah, that's great. And, and so I find myself trying to read the room as they're listening to it and try and try and read their body language through it and, and put myself in their shoes listening. And I think that's maybe why I kind of try and tune into something that then I find that I don't like. Um, but, but that whole, that whole process, that's a funny, a funny stage that I tend to build in and those to my tracks. And I might even just be having it on in the office with a colleague, um, at work or, or with my wife or one of my sister-in-laws is over. And I just put that on. And that's when I, that's when I, that's when I realized it's something I don't like. Um, but through, through that, with, with, with mixing, as we, as I approach the end of an album, um, I mix, I mix it and I export it. I bounce them and I listen to them. I always listen to them, uh, through my, um, AirPod. On the silver here in the studio, and I have my notebook and I just make notes, and then I, so I make notes, and then I make amends the next day and I bounce them again. And the next day I listen and I make notes and, and because if I'm sat in front of here, I'll twiddle forever. And I find that I'm way more focused if I have to do that, that, that bounce and listen through AirPods, which is kind of like where a lot of people, the sort of quality that people listen to it in as well. So it kind of lets me hear it in a place where a lot of people will hear it. Um, but that process, uh, can get quite annoying quite fast as it feels like Groundhog Day, every day, sitting down with a new page in my book and I'm title of the song again, and it's like, okay, bring that down. Okay. Yesterday I kind of messed that up, so I brought that down too much. But eventually at the, the, the list of notes get shorter and shorter, I guess. It's done.

Marc Matthews: 1:08:13

Yeah, I do the same. I think that's a great way of doing it and, um, very much like you. I'll bounce it down and then I'll make notes as I'm listening to it and I'll listening to it, listen to it rather. On, I've got these terrible Bluetooth headphones, which insinuate the high end something chronic. Yeah. I'll listen to it on those. And then I've got a mono speaker. I'll listen to it on, so I'll, I'll check out what the, um, the performance is when it, when it's some to mono, and then I'll listen to it on the, in my car and all these different environments. And then off the back of that, because like you say there, if I'm sat there in front of it, I'll be like, I'll listen to it and I'll be tweaking a snare and then suddenly I'm like, oh, no, no, that's throwing that out of whack. And then I start moving stuff around. I

Dan Cox: 1:08:50

think. So I think you can do too much if you, if you, if you just edit like that and, and keep, keep changing things. Mm-hmm., my wife's just saying I should shout out her because she, she's heard, you know, like you say in the car, in the living room through the TV speakers, she just hears, this album's not out yet, but she's heard it over a thousand times, I'm quite sure. And she, and she's never once complained about it. So I'm so lucky that she's, that she's so supportive with, with what we do. And uh, and yeah, I'm very grateful to her for putting up with it.

Marc Matthews: 1:09:14

No. So, no, that's amazing. And it echoes what, um, Brandon, uh, chap interviewed last week when equals two said the same thing. He said he's, he's got a very forgiving partner who's used to mm-hmm., who does the exact same, just listen to the album over

Dan Cox: 1:09:27

and over again. There's a new partner. Amazing. Actually, is that my, my two-year-old daughter Lucy, um, she, she start to pick up some of the hook and she starts to finish the choruses. And I go, okay, there's something here. Then if this two year old is a, I mean, I know she, she will have also had to listen to this a lot of times, but if she starts singing, finishing the end of a, the end of a chorus before it's there, you know, then I'll go, okay, that's is good. This must be, this must be a good one. This is working. Yeah,

Marc Matthews: 1:09:52

a hundred percent definitely. Like it goes back to what I said earlier, but having the barometer of someone who's not actually interested in it but is actually humming it. Mm-hmm.. So that kind of nicely moves on to like the, the last bit here. So the, the, the opportunity now to sort of plug the new album, so release date when it's gonna be released. Yep. And sort of. A brief, uh, so who's gonna be released by as well? Released by, uh, yeah. Who's released by and also just, uh, what, like a brief summary of what the audience can

Dan Cox: 1:10:16

expect. Yeah, sure. So our next album is called Lost and Love, and it comes out on the 15th of July through Aztec Records, um, who are a phenomenal label that we wanted to work with. Um, it was on our to-do list, find a way to work with Aztec, and we didn't even have to sell 'em the Fruit Basket. They got in touch with us before we did that. So it was always meant to be, obviously. Um, and, and we love working with them. There's some really fantastic guys. So, so yeah, lost In Love is coming up through, uh, through them. And, um, it is an 11 track kind of old to, um, the, the highs and lows of love as told through the lens of her of eighties movies. I, I guess with, without setting that side up, up of it too much, but knowing that many of the songs are kind of these stories that we, that we tell, um, some of which are kind of action crime and, and, and some of which are, are more, Breakfast clubby. But it, but it, uh, you know, that, that's, that's the idea. We are very lucky. There are a couple of guests on this one that we, that we're thrilled to have, um, on our last track, which is this big epic, uh, epilogue to the album, which calls back title of the album and the previous song Locked and Loved. And, um, and that the opening, uh, dialogue in that is spoken by Janelle Elliot who, uh, played, um, Lara Croft in half of the classic Tomb Raider games. I'm a huge Tome Raider fan, and I met her and she was so lovely and, uh, agreed to do this for us at the start. So that's a, that's a great thing for my list. Tick off that, that I've got Lara Croft essentially on one of our tracks on the album and the end of that album, uh, the end of that track, sorry, features saxophone, um, uh, by, um, oh my gosh, oh my gosh. I'm having a mind blank. That's not. Thomas, I forget Thomas's surname. I'm so sorry, Thomas from, uh, who, who played, um, the saxophone on the majority of the midnights, um, song. So it's, you know, that that's a real like bucket list track for us. Yeah. I think it's Edinger. I'm so sorry Thomas. But, uh, but yeah, um, uh, yeah, he does an amazing job and that was, you know, that was brilliant for us. We've, you know, we've got the midnight sax softness on this last track on the album, and it starts with Lara Croft, so it's just kind of this dream come true for us, this one. Um, and, and yeah, so it's, it's the first time that we're, that we've really presenting what the band is with Melissa, and half the tracks are led by Oliver and half are by Melissa. And there are a couple that are, that are kind of co-lead vocals and it's, and really creates a really nice flow of the album, um, uh, and, and this sort of dynamic that, uh, is brand new to Pensacola and I can't wait for everyone to hear it.

Marc Matthews: 1:12:46

No, I'm excited as well. Um, I didn't realize you have, um, the saxophonist on there as well. That's, um, that's sort

Dan Cox: 1:12:52

of. We always said we wouldn't have saxophone in our tracks because no one does it better than the midnight. But when you have the midnight sax soften list, I think you can get away with it.. Well,

Marc Matthews: 1:13:00

yeah. This is it. This is it. I'm looking forward to this. So that's July the 15th.

Dan Cox: 1:13:04

Again, there are brilliant saxophonist in the genre. I d again, I've gotta be careful with what I say there, cuz there absolutely are. But for us, we knew we couldn't do it. We couldn't, we didn't want to fake it with, with Sy uh, Zach, and we didn't want to, uh, bring in someone that, that we might meet on the street here and, and yes. So we felt really thrilled and lucky to have Thomas on that track.

Marc Matthews: 1:13:23

Amazing. So the audience listening, this is, uh, recorded prior to the, um, album being released. So a link to the album will be put in the show notes for this as, um, thank you as with everything else that, uh, that we've mentioned. So, which leads on nicely to where, where can the audience find, uh, Pensacola missed Online? Uh,

Dan Cox: 1:13:39

primarily we are, uh, we are most active on Instagram, which is at Pensacola underscore Mist. Uh, our website, pensacola mist.com has all the links to everything else. Our YouTube channel is, um, Is is criminally under viewed. If you ask me , we, we have very few subscribers and, uh, and all of our music videos are, are one shot music videos that, that kind of like, are very taxing mentally for us to come up with ideas that are interesting enough to keep without cutting away of the camera. So it would be nice if somebody watched those one day. So you, you know, feel free to check those out if you, if you'd like the audience gonna do that. Uh, but, but yeah, follow us on Instagram. You get everything really there. Um, we're on Facebook and Twitter by search Pensacola Mis too, but Instagram is where we're most active and where you'll get most of, uh, most of our content on there. It'd be lovely. See, fantastic. See some new people there too.

Marc Matthews: 1:14:24

Yeah, I'll, um, put a link in the show notes, so all of those there. And, um, the U YouTube is a cruel, cruel mistress, I find. Mm-hmm.. Um, I'm on YouTube myself and I do put time, I say time and effort. I do put some time and effort into it, but the return on investment is so,

Dan Cox: 1:14:40

That's, we must do that cuz it's fun. I think. Marc Matthews: Yeah. Yeah. Well that's exactly it. I put out that, that, that's the reason I do it. I don't think I have to resign myself to the fact I'm never gonna hit the, uh, the billion or the email billion. Well, who knows this time?

Marc Matthews: 1:14:53

Well, this is it. You never know. It might suddenly spike one day. Occasionally. I get that. I've had more, I've gone off on a tangent now. I've had more views via shorts on YouTube than I have Yeah. By long video shorts. Yeah. Some I'll, I'll post shorts and then suddenly I'm like, oh wow. I've had like 2000 views in the last day and it's amazing. Just a 15 second video, right? Yeah. Whereas I've released a new song and there's, I dunno, 200

Dan Cox: 1:15:15

Well, this is where we're terrible. We're not on TikTok. Sorry. We're everywhere, but, but TikTok and we should be on TikTok because that's where it happens. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm not there mentally yet and hopefully I will be before too late, but right now it's Instagram. I'm a millennial and that's where I'm stuck at.

Marc Matthews: 1:15:30

Yeah, TikTok is a, i, I like, you know what? I was a reticent to do it and my girlfriend was like, no, you need to do TikTok. And I was like, uh, cause it's just my face.

Dan Cox: 1:15:38

A lot of this, it's some brilliant, uh, pro production tips still on TikTok I've found. You know, you know, that's that sort of stuff you can do. Um, you know, that, that's been really useful cuz yet these really snappy hints that I've certainly taken on board when I have

Marc Matthews: 1:15:50

visited TikTok. I think, um, just in short that the key thing I've, I've taken away from having creative videos on that. The great thing is they don't have to be perfect. They can literally be, it's just like, um, you can swing your camera around in your face. Yeah. Post it, poke, point it at your computer, which takes away that with, I think with YouTube everything's gotta be pristine and b, Um, whereas TikTok tonight. Anyway, anyway, I digress. Um, Dan, a huge hug. Thanks for joining me on this today. I mean, I, you, I've got a thousand other questions I could probably go into, but I don't wanna keep you too long cause on this Sunday, so No, a big thank you. Um, I will endlessly plug the new album when it comes out and thank, thank you very much. I'm really, really looking forward to it. So big. Thank you for joining me today, buddy. No worries. Thank you very

Dan Cox: 1:16:30

much.

Marc Matthews: 1:16:30

Take care. Okay, I'll speak to you soon. Cheers bud. Hi,

Dan Cox: 1:16:33

this is Carl from Neon Highway. My favorite episode of Inside the Mix podcast is episode 46 with sunglasses kid. Sunglasses kid absolutely has his finger on the pulse of synth music and modern songwriting. And this episode, you'll hear him walk through his approach and his own experiences with creating a name for himself and the scene. Woohoo.

Marc Matthews: 1:16:54

Slow your roll folks. Before you go, don't forget to pick up your free Producer Growth Scorecard. This simple tool will help you quickly progress as a songwriter and release more music. Get it for free at www.markmatthewsproducer.com.