#42: How to Write Music Across Different Time Zones | Year of the Fall

Year of the Fall is a synthwave/retrowave band that blends nostalgia for the music and movies of the 1980s with the electronic melancholy of modern life.
 
YOTF features German musician Philipp Kappestein and American writer/vocalist Dan Vaccaro. The two met while living in a volunteer community in Boston, Massachusetts, and within days began making music together. They spent their 9-5 working in the program’s homeless shelter, and in the evenings recorded music on an old computer, originally using a headset microphone to capture vocals. Their first album came under the band name For Tomorrow, and featured acoustic folk-pop music inspired by the likes of Ben Harper, Jack Johnson, Counting Crows, Pearl Jam, and others.

The group’s second album, Love on a Dying Planet, is an eight-song cycle – released one track at a time – that tells the story of star-crossed lovers who discover passion and peril at the end of the world. The band released the first single from the record in May 2022. Fans can follow along with each new segment of the story (and find its corresponding song) at the YOTF’s website (https://www.yearofthefall.com/love-on-a-dying-planet-2022).

To follow Year of the Fall, click here: https://www.yearofthefall.com
To follow Year of the Fall on Bandcamp, click here: https://yearofthefall.bandcamp.com/
To follow Year of the Fall on Spotify, click here: https://open.spotify.com/artist/2sp1BRltc7PhmhPSB1Tyvv

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Transcript

Marc: 0:00

You're listening to the inside the mix podcast with your host, Mark Matthews. Hello and welcome to the inside the mix podcast. I'm Mark Matthews, your host, musician producer, and mix and mastering engineer you've come to the right place. If you want to know more about your favorite synth music, artists, music engineering, and production songwriting, and the music industry. I've been writing, producing, mixing, and mastering music for over 15 years. And I wanna share what I've learned with you. Hi folks. Uh, welcome back to the inside the mix podcast in this episode. Uh, I'm very excited, as I say, in all episodes, cuz I am to welcome our guests today, Philip and Dan AKA year of the full so year of the four was a synth way of retro wave band. That blends nostalgia for the music and movies of the 1980s with the electronic melancholy of modern life, Philip and down are going to share with us their story, how they collaborate in the digital realm, the songwriting and production process and the story behind their new album. Love on a dying planet. Hello, Philip and Dan, thanks for joining me. And how are you? Hi, thanks for having us.

Dan: 1:03

Yeah, we're doing, doing really good. Really appreciate being here.

Marc: 1:06

No, no, no. It's, it's brilliant having you on here. I'm really looking forward to this one because you are in a position whereby you are collaborate. We're gonna go into this in a bit more detail and a bit, um, but you collaborate across the world essentially. So where are you joining us from today? So I'm joining from

Philip: 1:22

Stuttard Germany

Dan: 1:23

and I am in San Francisco, California.

Marc: 1:25

Quite a gap there in terms of distance. So I'm, I'm really looking forward to sort of digging in, to see and find out how you go about the creative process, but we'll, uh, we'll get to that. But first of what I want to go through is a bit of background. So, um, the life before year of the fall. So from your bio, you discovered synth wave almost by accident. Um, a child of the eighties, long time fans of electronic music, but never imagined making it. So if I start off with yourself, Can you tell our audience a bit about your musical life prior to year of the fall? How did it all begin? Yeah,

Dan: 1:55

well, you know, for me, actually words really came before music. Uh, I was always a kid that was drawn to language drawn, drawn to words from some of my earliest memories. Scribbling in my doctor, Sue's books, writing my own, my own lyrics in there. Um, and I can recall when I was, uh, a very young kid, my parents would ask me what I wanted to be. And I said a poet, um, for a lower middle class, uh, family from New York, they were like, essentially, what's that? Uh, what, what does that mean? Uh, so yeah, just always drawn to, I think, trying to make sense of the world through language. And then, uh, in high school I had a few friends who played instruments and we were at somebody's house and we were, they were fiddling around, uh, trying to play some led Zeppelin, um, very poorly. Um, and, uh, they asked me, Hey, why don't you bang on some garbage cans? It'll put some, put some percussion in here to, to see what it's all about. And so I started to do that. And then, um, I was also inadvertently singing while, while that was happening. And, uh, one of the guitarists at one point was like, you know what, why don't you sing? You know, don't worry about the drums. Just go sing. Um, and yeah, it kind of evolved from there. Eventually learned some guitar and realize that I could put the stuff that I was writing incessantly and notebooks all over. To music. Um, and yeah, so join some, uh, like abandoned high school and, and progressively have been involved with, uh, singing and, and songwriting for the most of my life after that.

Marc: 3:39

Amazing. Amazing. I love the idea that you started out as a poet or you wanted to get into poetry and came at it from that angle. I love, I love the way you put, I've made an over here sense of the world through language. I think. A fantastic phrase to describe how you're using language to. Yeah, it makes sense of the word. I, I think that's brilliant. So, um, correct me if I'm wrong, then you are the singer, would that be right for you or the fall? Cause I noticed you mentioned there about you sing or you were encouraged

Dan: 4:02

to sing. Yeah, that's right. Yep. I do. Um, the large majority of the singing and, uh, you know, four vocals and.

Marc: 4:12

Yeah. Fantastic. So my same question to you then, Philip, um, how did it all begin for you? So

Philip: 4:17

back in the eighties, um, my parents enrolled me in an early, um, music education program, which was pretty popular back then in the eighties. Um, and I realized very quickly that I hated it with a passion. Um, and also I think the teachers let my parents know on very clear terms that they shouldn't have, um, very high hopes when it comes to like me and music production. Um, so yeah, I, I kind of like until I was, I think 12 or 13, I grew up thinking, like making music wasn't for me. And then I picked up a guitar. I, I took some lessons. I taught myself and then, you know, I discovered that maybe I wasn't a hopeless case after all. Um, and then actually I joined the hardcore band when I was 14. So, um, Yeah. I know being a frequent listener to this podcast, that this is a, a recurring theme here that, um, people have joined metal bands and, and hardcore bands, um, before they discovered their love for synth wave music. So, yeah, so I was in a hardcore band, um, and I played bass for them for, I think, four or five years. Um, and yeah, we had gigs all over Germany and some outside Germany. Um, yeah, but that's how it all.

Marc: 5:33

Amazing. Yeah, you are right. In that sense, listening to the podcast, you find that a lot of knock on my desk, a lot of, um, artists do come from the metal and hard. Uh, background and then find their way into this kind of softer softer aesthetic and this softer sound and of, of synth way. So going back there, what you said about music education. Cause I don't think you're the first person that I've interviewed that have said that they, um, it's it happened for me as well, that when you were younger, like you had teachers and they said, actually you're probably not gonna get much outta them in terms of music or they just put up straight up gate, um, gatekeeper. You in terms of music, what can you, can you remember why that was? Was it at the time you just didn't have an interest or was it no, I, I think

Philip: 6:14

it was just limiting, you know, to be confronted with a lot of things that I was confronted with in school anyway. And it felt like on school, you know, it didn't feel like fun. It didn't feel like, you know, I was like creating, uh, like creatively expressing myself. Um, so in a way, you know, it, it, it just didn't feel like fun. It didn't feel like, uh, uh, an activity like an after school activity. That that should be fun. Right. Um, and so I, I only discovered that that music was fun, um, after that.

Marc: 6:44

So, yeah, I suppose it's kind of in a way, like, like, I guess if you are pushed into doing something or you are, you're pushed into doing so yeah. Push into doing something you don't necessarily wanna do, or it's not the way you wanna. Um, and it, yeah, it is gonna take the fun out of it. And then I, I kind of found that myself really, when I've been doing various projects in the past, and it's only when I decided actually it's sort of like, this is the way I want to do it, rather than someone tell me the way it should be done. I find more enjoyment in it and freedom as well. Um, cuz I think sometimes education can be a bit limiting, particularly I'm not knocking education. Education is great. Um, don't get me wrong, but I think sometimes they have a curricular curriculum they have to stick to. And I think that can be a bit limiting. So. um, but moving on, so go going on to your bio. So, uh, over time, you'd begun introducing electronic elements into your music. And, um, you mentioned bands, the postal service, the not vest. I've never heard of those, actually. So I might come back to that in a minute. The midnight in Kavinski I have heard of, um, so if I start with yourself, Dan, was there like a seminal piece of music or an artist or, um, a band that had a, a really big impact to a new, as a. In the first instance,

Dan: 7:51

you know, I, I have kind of a unique story. I, I mean, I, I grew up on a, you know, pretty healthy diet of classic rock, uh, through my, through my parents. Um, and you know, being a child of the eighties, obviously things like Michael Jackson and culture club were around on the radio all the time. Um, and then in, in sort of my teen years, I got very into like improvisational, like, like the grateful dead, like jam band type of music. I was always, uh, excited by experimentation kind of in the moment. Um, and also drawn to like writing, like the beatnik poets that had a similar kind of vibe, uh, to them. Uh, yeah. And so bands like the counting crows, uh, Pearl jam were also, uh, big influences kind of in the nineties, on me, uh, in terms of synth style music, I think. You know, one of the first things that I can remember is, um, Philip and I, uh, went with a friend. We were, was when we were living in Boston together, we went up to Vermont, um, Burlington. And, uh, we ended up seeing a movie, uh, the movie drive, um, with, uh, Ryan Gosling and, you know, it has a synth wave score. And I, and we, we came out of that movie and we were like, What was that? That was like, the music is so good. Um, it's so interesting. And it sort of stuck with us over the years. And I think when we, um, we, we were making music together already at that point, but we were making more like singer songwriter, style music. Um, but that was always, I think it was kind of baking it. It took some time to, to, uh, cook up and, and. Into the actual music itself. So I think that, yeah, uh, Kavinski and electric youth are two of the two that are in there. Um, that I think really started us down the road toward, uh, synth wave music.

Marc: 10:58

Yeah. I think drive is a common is like the, uh, common denominator, uh, when it comes to synth music. I think if you, if you, aren't already interested in it as a musician, as a creative, and you're interested in remotely in electronic music, if you watch drive, I think it. Um, it lend itself well to influence in you as an artist to actually go and create that music. Um, so you mentioned you were doing like the singer songwriter, uh, sort of music before then. When you watched drive, what were your thoughts in terms of actually creating that music? Did you think actually, you know what, that music, it sounds quite accessible. It sounds quite easy. Easy might be the wrong word, but did it, did it appear like it could be easier to create that that makes any sense? Not

Dan: 11:38

necessarily. It, it took, um, I think it took some time to really settle in with us what we were doing, this singer songwriter stuff, and I think. Over the years that we've been making music together, you know, probably a, maybe even a decade worth of time. Uh, we were getting, I think, a little bored by that sound and style and it just seemed. Kind of typical. And, uh, and so we, we sort of started to like work in some electric, um, or electronic style sound into that music at first. And, um, and then it just sort of grew from there. I think, uh, one of the things we we've joked about is that we, our first year, our, our first album as year of the fall, our first really. Album, we wrote the first four songs of that album without even know what synth wave was the term. Um, and so we just. We had a, we liked this certain style and we were trying to incorporate it and then we heard more of it and we thought, oh, if we tweak this or we fix this a little bit, it could have this type of beat, um, this type of sound. And, and, and suddenly it was evolving and morphing into a little bit more, um, solidly syn wave, which I think you could kind of hear it in the album. If you listen closely, uh, you can hear some of the songs sound a little bit more traditional synth synth wave, and others sound. Right on the border.

Marc: 13:04

I like, I really like that approach there. And I mean, it might be happenstance that, that it occurred in terms of you didn't, you actually weren't aware of synth wave, but yet you sort of started to go in that direction. And I think that's quite a good way to do it. I mean, it's, it's just difficult to do now. Now you are aware it exists. Um, but I think in doing that, you don't, cuz it's quite easy. I think with easy again is probably the wrong word, but with Sy wave to follow a formula. If that makes sense, where you might have some big pads, an aerator, um, some lead synths, some high strings, and then you do 4 0 4. Um, there's a bit of a, you can have a formula for it. So I think having. Experience there. I thought probably like releases your creativity a bit more and then you find it and then you start bringing in those elements. Um, I dunno what you think. I think that's probably quite a good thing. Oh,

Philip: 13:55

totally. Um, I, I, I feel like not knowing the formula to it also open us up to, to certain, um, things that are also not very typical for Sy wave. So if you listen to our first album, for example, we have, um, a song. There are no drums on it. So the last song, um, Has no drums. It's more like a synth coral kind of a meditative song. Um, I mean, you have these things in chill wave, for example, but, um, so all of these things, so I, I, I, I wrote this song probably five years before I heard the term synth wave. Um, and, and we really wanted to keep those songs when we, when we knew. Um, that was the direction that, that we wanted to go in. Um, when we discovered bands like the midnight and we said, oh, okay. That, that might be a direction that we can agree on because we also, we struggled, you know, um, finding a musical direction that we wanted to go to, um, after leaving that singer songwriter path. Um, and, and I, I remember distinctly that we had all these bands that, that we were thrown around in conversations and be like, you know, should this be the goal, or should this be the goal? So you mentioned, um, the postal service before. So that was, uh, our first goal. We were like, wow, this is, um, you know, um, the greatest band ever. We wanna sound like the postal service and we never did, um, for several reasons. Um, but yeah, I, I, I think not having that framework, not having that, um, recipe in mind and, and still creating synth wave music, um, really liberated us in a sense. And I, I, I, I think we still benefit from this today. Although, I think I know a little bit what the, what the recipe is now. And I think it, it, it also, it shows in our, um, uh, newer songs a little bit more. Um, but still, I think it's, it's very liberating, um, to have a framework. Um, but at the same time, um, not to, to stick to that framework at all times.

Marc: 15:52

I agree. Yeah. I'd totally agree with that. I think it's a fantastic thing to do, um, is like you say, it's great having a framework cuz it gives you a point of reference. If you are struggling for, um, inspiration or ideas. But in the same breath, it means that you can create something unique. As you say there, like with, uh, you mentioned the track at the end where there's no drums. Um, so Phillip sort like the same question to you. I, I asked Dan, so with regards to, you mentioned you were in a hardcore band, but growing up, was there a particular artist or band that had a, a really big impact on you as a musician?

Philip: 16:21

You mean besides Slayer

Marc: 16:23

or ? Are you Slamon

Philip: 16:26

oh yeah. Yeah. I love Slayer. I, I. They were so good. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, and I was big in, in, so like involved in the German metal core scene, so I love like caliber

Marc: 16:37

and, and CBAN.

Philip: 16:39

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but I, I wouldn't say, you know, those were my like biggest musical influences, but if, if I would have to say like, which album influenced me the most, it would probably be Radiohead's. Okay. Computer. Um, that, I mean, till today that's still my, my favorite album. Um, and so back then we were still, or I was still making like hardcore music and I hadn't heard like these electronic influences in, in that kind of music. And it, it really struck a chord with me. Um, and I could relate to the, to the lyrics a lot, um, to, you know, talking about social alienation, um, uncontrolled consumerism, um, the artwork was fantastic. So yeah. Um, that, that album influenced me, um,

Marc: 17:55

deeply. Yeah. It's amazing the way you describe it. It's like a full package. Isn't it? When you've got just, not just the music, but you've got the, the artwork and the message behind it and everything that goes with it. Now that's a fantastic choice. And, um, just circling back to where you about Caliban there. I hadn't heard that, that, that band name, somebody mentioned Caliban in so long. I used to, um, I used to gig in a venue where I'm from in the Southwest of the UK and the promoter, the guy who owned the venue, he used to play Caliban all the time. This was probably about 12 years ago. Nice. Yeah. They're still going. Are they still going? Yeah, I'd say what I've made a note of it. I'm gonna go and I've look and see what they're up to.

Philip: 18:29

Um, I, I, I haven't heard any of their albums in their recent years, but I, I know I, I recently looked them up on, on, I think on Wiki P or something, and then they're still

Marc: 18:37

going. Oh, that's good to know. I mean, longevity, that's fantastic. Um, I'm gonna go just for nostalgic purposes for my own gratification. I'm gonna go look up Caliban um, so what I'd like to move on next, uh, move on to next is sort of a birth of the year of the fall. So as we mentioned earlier, you are living on opposite sides of the Atlantic. Um, so the two of you met whilst volunteering, um, in, in Boston and, uh, within days you were making music together. So can you sort. What inspired you to work together and create music? How did it all begin?

Dan: 19:11

Um, I could take that one. Um, I think. To be honest, uh, you know, that was in 2003. So, so here we are, you know, 20 years later, uh, essentially. And I, I, I really truly believe that Phillip and I are kind of soulmates in that way. Um, and, uh, we, we met through this volunteer community where we both lived, where we would, um, we worked in a homeless shelter during the day, and then we, we actually lived in an apartment together, like an intentional community. And so. I can remember having a conversation about music the first day we, we knew each other. And, uh, and we, so I had this notebook that I kept, uh, where I would just Jo things down ideas, um, mainly for poetry and for short stories and other things that I was writing about at that time. And Phillip played me a, uh, recording of a song that he had been working on. And I took my notebook. And picked something uh, and we started to, to make music together and that, that was in, um, And then the first couple days of, of knowing each other. Um, and so, yeah, we, we would make this music like in the evenings. Um, it was very, uh, fun situation. We would, you know, get like a pizza and, and we were recording then on literally our first song we recorded was on a, a headphone microphone. So it was, uh, one of those like little ones where the mic came down and we used to call it the Britney Spears microphone. Um, and. Yeah. And I would like hold it in front of my, my face, the little microphone piece, uh, and, and sing that way. Uh, we, at that time we're using, you know, these ancient computers that were left, you know, had been in the house for us when we arrived. Um, and as you can imagine, the sound quality was, uh, interesting. and we were always trying to figure out ways to make it sound better and you know, what are we doing wrong? And, you know, Phillip is kind of a genius in that way. So he was, he was doing the work on that mainly, but yeah, that's kind of how we, that's kind of how we got started and, you know, like I said, 20 years, two, two different kind of band names, uh, and styles, but. I don't see us stopping anytime soon. That's

Marc: 21:34

amazing. 20 years is, is quite a feat. Isn't it? That's, that's a long breadth of time. I like the, the fact they used the, the Sammy Hagar, Britney Spears, microphone to record. Um, I think a lot of, a lot of musicians go down that route and recording. I remember when I first started out and we had a PC, a USB microphone, I think it was a USB microphone. We put it in a sock and hung it from the ceiling. Um, and like we recorded a demo doing it that. Yeah, this was in someone's, uh, a friend of mine's bedroom and he had drum set, man. It was it clean talk. I hope , I, I couldn't guarantee that um, but it, it was, it sounded horrific, but yeah, I think we, um, our artists, we sort of start out doing that and then you learn as time progresses, but I think one question I've got, cause you mentioned there, you, you started this in 2003. What, what is the, what has kept you creating music together for so long? Is there like a, a. To that whole scenario.

Philip: 22:30

And I think the base for that is definitely our friendship. I'd say, um, you know, I mean, we're not only creating music together, but we see each other, um, quite a lot. We spend a lot of time with each other. Um, and I think that was always the best basis for, for, um, also having, um, a creative output, uh, that will. That we produced together. Um, so I, I, I really think, um, that was also something that, that like kept us together when, so back in the day, when, when I moved back to Germany, so I lived, um, first in the us from 2002 to 2004, and then I moved back to Germany and I mean, back then, um, you know, you couldn't. Just jump on FaceTime, um, every day and, and talk to each other. Um, so I mean, we were still having phone conversations, but we were also like sending, um, music back and forth. And I think that was like a way of communicating and, and I mean, back then we, we like recorded stuff and burned it onto CD, and then we send it via postal mail, you know? Um, so, but it was a way that that really kept us together. Um, in our friendship and, and, um, really kept our friendship alive. Um, also, and, and yeah, I really think that's, that's one foundation definitely for the music.

Marc: 23:48

Brilliant. It's great. That's, it's amazing what music can do. Isn't it in, in terms of, of bringing people together and keeping them together, and you have that common shared interest that keeps you going it's, it's a fantastic story. And like I said, 2020 years is, is brilliant to, to. Individual. It's funny. I didn't realize it

Philip: 24:05

was 20 years before you said it. Marc: Yeah. Wow. Yeah. When you it's crazy, isn't it? When you quantify it? Yeah, I mean, I was in a band for eight or nine years and, um, but yeah, 20 years is, is impressive and, um, it's, it's amazing. And what's more is, is doing it. Uh transatlantically it's fantastic. So. Sort of like Mo it is a nice segue into my next question, which is, um, this is probably directed more at you Philip, as the, as the technician behind the out the, the duo, um, sort of like the unique way that you create music in, in the digital space, the back and forth of ideas. How, how does that work in terms of, like, if you say you starting to write the new album. how do you bounce those, those ideas back and forth? What is the process you go through to, to start a song? Let's say, so it has changed a bit. Um, so like, what we used to do is, um, that I would record, um, some music and I would send it to Dan, um, over the internet, he would listen to that. Um, then he would write the lyrics, um, and then we have some kind of conversation about it, but now we really found a solution where we can really. Um, I mean, I still write the songs on my own, um, and, and start the music, um, production process on my own. But, um, so at some point I get then on board and so we have, um, a technical setup where, um, we can work in the same do, um, and we're, we can, uh, work on music, but where we can also, uh, record the vocal. Um, yeah, so, and I think that really helps, you know, that feeling that you're really in the same room or remote recording solution, um, as opposed to sending over stuff and then waiting for six weeks to, to get a reply or, you know, to talk about it on the phone or something like that. So that really it's much more of an immediate, um, creative connection also.

Marc: 25:59

Um, yeah. Fantastic. So are you just to, to get a, a clearer picture? So you've got your door open and has Dan. His door open. Are you, are you, are you doing it? Cause I know there, there is software that allows you to do that.

Philip: 26:12

Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so interestingly I've, I, I very recently switched from Cubase to logic, um, and Cubase had its own remote recording solution, but I never used that for some reason it was so freaking complicated and, um, I don't know, we, I, I, I just never, um, got around it really. And now what we do is, um, and I think probably the listeners, um, think that's, that's crazy and a little bit complicated, but so the way that we do it is that Dan, um, has his door open on his computer. I log into his computer via team viewer, and he has a plugin on the master bus that streams high quality audio. And I'm listening to that stream so I can, you know, listen to dancing. Um, and then, you know, we can record together that obviously also works vice versa when, when, when we work a music or something. Um, but yeah, so it's basically with the plugin, um, it's called listen to, by a company called audio move. Um, and it's really cool. It's, it's, uh, really easy. You just really slap it on the, on the stereo bus and, um, you just. Hit the button start streaming and, and this sounds really good.

Marc: 27:32

Let's take a quick break from this episode so that I could tell you about free resource that I made for you. It's a PDF checklist that describes what you need to do to properly prepare a mix for mastering. So you've done the hard work and you love your mix yet. Suitably preparing a mix for mastering is often overlooked by. Resulting in delayed sessions, excessive back and forth conversation and frustration on both parts. I want to help fix that. So if you want this free resource, just go to www dot synth music, mastering.com. As this checklist will help and guide you to make the mastering process as smooth, transparent, and exciting as possible. So again, the URL is www dot synth music, mastering.com for this free preparing a mix for mastering checklist. Let's get back to the. That's amazing. I'm certainly gonna look into that. Cause I've been in, in situations whereby I've worked remotely with, with artists, um, from a reduction point of view, and it's always I've, I haven't dedicated enough time to go and investigate what options are available, but I love the idea of being able to, as you say, using listen to an audio movers and streaming high quality audio back to the other person, or they're streaming it back to me. Um, no, I love that idea. So my, my next question is then is, is for you Dan. And this is in particular. So if you are the performer and you are recording your voice, um, and then Philip is listening and, and feeding back. what is that like? What is that? The, that sort of scenario? How does that feel? Cause usually in a recording studio, you'd have somebody on the side of the glass, um, or maybe sat next to you and you've got headphones on and you're recording, but there's someone in the room with you. What is it like when there's someone talking to you through headphones, but they're not actually in the room with you when you're recording.

Dan: 29:14

Yeah, I mean, I. To be honest, I just relative to the way we were doing it before, it's so much better. Um, because, you know, before we would, you know, after we kind of got the song in a place where we felt like it was ready to, to lay down the vocals, Philip would send, you know, the whole track and I would. Just get my microphone out and go to my spare room and literally record by myself the whole song. So I would do, you know, all the, all the vocals, all the background, vocals, all the harmony parts all just by myself in a room. And then I would send it to, to Philip and he would. Uh, do his best to make it sound good. Uh, and then sometimes we need to rerecord things, but very often, very often not. Um, so it's very limiting in that way. Uh, and also. He couldn't react to anything. Um, you know, it was, I mean, the reaction was delayed, uh, by however long it would take him to listen to it. And I mean, you know, I would record 50 parts. So, you know, he had to sit down, listen to each part and see how they sounded and how they fit together and all that stuff. Um, so yeah, to have the feedback kind of instantaneously and to, you know, Philip has got a really, really good ear for music. So for him to be like, oh, I was right on pitch or the harmony part sounded great. And that makes me feel more confident, um, in the, in the process and in, in my vocals. And yeah. So I think, I think it's been really good and to be honest, it, it feels. I've never, we've never been in a recording studio to have someone behind the glass, but it, it kind of feels the same, like he's piping into my headphones that I have on right now, usually his voice, his voice. Uh, and so I can hear him like he's right there. Um, so it's, it's pretty amazing. And I feel like it's really, um, taken our music to the

Marc: 31:04

next level. Fantastic. I suppose. Um, yeah. Echoing what you said there in, in a recording studio situation, you would have somebody touch talking to you for your headphones anyway. I guess it just means that the individual isn't there with you in the, in the building, they're just somewhere else, but it's still the same process. Um, and I totally get what you're saying there, where by you're getting that real time feedback rather than you saying record send across Philip listens, goes through each of the recordings feedback and then you overdub and you got, I can see how the process that you guys. It's so much more efficient and makes so much more sense having that real time feedback, um, which is fantastic. And I think for the audience listening, actually, hopefully they'll get some inspiration in terms of what they can achieve, cuz I know there's a lot of collaboration in synth music and it ha it's happening all the time. So hopefully they're listening to this and they're checking out plugins, as you mentioned, then like listen to by audio movers, I'll research that and I'll put a link in the show notes for it, for the audience. It'd be interesting for the, for those listening to, to feedback and on what their experiences is or experiences are rather. So please do, if you do go down that route feedback to me, um, cause I'd be really interested to know. So once again, this moves quite nicely onto my next part, which is the release, um, of where you've got an impending sort of release or you, you you've got an album, but what I like to touch on first is, uh, the song that you've released recently, which is choose the. If I'm, uh, is that correct? I think. Chose the machine. Yeah. I'm looking at my, my notes here. We're terrible typing chose the machine. Um, so that's from the up and coming new album love on a dying planet. I've got that bit. Right. Haven't I, um, yeah. Fantastic. So my question to you, Philip is I suppose is how did that production start? Um, Did it start with yourself or did it start with Dan with the songwriting? Um,

Philip: 32:56

so that production, uh, started, uh, with myself. Um, and I remember very clearly how that started. So there's a, um, there's a synth in the very beginning. Um, the first ARP that the, that the, um, song starts with. Um, so I found that preset and I absolutely love that preset and. Is how often my, my songwriting starts. I like go through presets for three hours and then I find something. And then, um, I take another couple of hours to really make it my own put effects on it. Um, play around with the filters, with the oscillators and so on. Um, and I found that preset and it sounded so cool. Um, and, uh, yeah, that's um, that was immediately the, the foundation, um, of the song, um, And so, and I remember specifically also about that preset, that, uh, it was a preset by time, co 1983 for the, um, what is it? Tell youo LX or something. So it's that June oh six emulation. Um, and there's a, a website out there called, uh, the patch bay. Um, I use that quite a lot. They have really amazing presets, um, by, in the midnight for diva, for example, or by Michael Oakley, um, for silent one another synth that I use quite a lot. Um, they have, uh, presets by lift room, which is like an amazing banish sound designer. Um, so, and I found that preset, um, And I absolutely fell in love with it. And then I just structured the, the whole song around

Marc: 34:41

that. Fantastic. It's great to hear that you, you use presets as well. Cause I've had the conversation with a few artists on here about presets and, um, and I think most people do it the way you mention there, which is you've you've. You find a appreciate you, like, which might take a bit of time, as you mentioned, and then you, you sort of make it and twist it into your own. I mean, I do in my productions all the time, it's kind of like, we're reinventing the wheel, but I've never spent much time with patch bay. Um, and I think I'm going to, um, I'm gonna going to investigate it and, and have a look at what's available on there and check out these. These different, um, artists and the, and the sounds and sound as eyes they've uploaded. So going back to what you mentioned there about your sys that you're using, so you say you've got silent and you've got the towel, um, emulation as well. What other, what other sys do you use, or do you have any hardware or is it just,

Philip: 35:26

just in the, no, unfortunately not, I haven't stepped into that realm yet. I, I would very much like to, I mean, it's always a budget thing obviously, and, and I. Therefore, you have to make a smart choice, you know, unless you have the budget to buy like, you know, three sys at one at once or something. So I haven't stepped into that yet. Um, I, I would very much like to, um, but yeah, so, so my main three sys is really like, I use diva, um, quite a lot. And I, I find that also to be very. Versatile. I mean, it's, it's really a collection of the greatest monophonic polyphonic Sy out there. Um, I think, and I think, um, if you really, um, dig deep into that sense, it's, it's, it's really great. Um, silence one, some, some people I think hate it. Some love it. I really love it. I think it's a great sense to, to really, um, Synth wave music. Um, and again, so there, there are great presets out there, um, for silent one in particular. Um, so I, I love the presets, um, that are out there by, um, Mike locally. I'm not sure if you're familiar with him. Yeah. So I've, I've, I absolutely love that sense. And then, um, I use native instruments, synth, um, quite a bit for, you know, things here and there. But those three that I mentioned are the main synth, um, that I use. Um, but yeah, obviously, I mean, if I find something, um, you know, somewhere else, um, I'll use a different sense, but, um, those are the three main sys.

Marc: 37:00

Fantastic. I, I op sort of adopted similar approach. I've got three men main sense that I use, um, and like yourself, I'd love to have hardware, but as you say, it is a, it is a budgetary thing. Um, cuz it is expensive and when you've got these great emulation it's and also I think when it, I, I think I had this conversation with an artist or I can't remember the artist's name now. Um, but they said a similar thing whereby they, they actually prefer working in the box and rather than having. The, the hardware there and it can get distracted by the hardware end. I mean, you can just tinker for hours with a piece of hardware, but then there, the, the, the, the other flip side to that I guess, is that you've got something tangible that you can play, but it'd be nice having that conundrum, but I don't have it, unfortunately, cuz of much like you cuz of cuz of budget. But so that that's great. So we've got like the production side of things behind that track. So Dan, my, my, my question to you now is, is the lyric behind it and the theme and the concept. Can you tell our audience a bit about.

Dan: 37:57

sure. Yeah, we had, um, so prior to that song being written, we had an idea for a concept album, um, which is what we're in the process of making with, uh, love on a dying planet. It's, it's actually, uh, a song cycle in, in eight parts. So we written, uh, chose the machine as the first part. And we're in process on the second. Um, as we speak. Um, and so we had this, uh, story, a storyline in mind, um, and actually the, the song that we put together first was like the fourth song. Um, so we kind of have that in the, in our back pocket, but we knew we needed to go, um, a little bit further back in the timeline of the story. Uh, and one of the concepts of the story, I it's, it's kind of a graphic novel. It's it's like a dystopian love. As kind of how we've been describing it. Um, and one of the main characters who's called Nate and eight, uh, is essentially decided that him he's experienced grief, uh, through the loss of a loved one. And he's decided that he wants to be less human, so he doesn't have to feel as much pain. Um, and so he literally choose. To become part machine in order to alleviate some of that pain. Um, and so we kind of, kind of had that story kind of in the back of our heads. Um, we've been, I've been parti in particular thinking a lot about, um, the mechanization of our lives. And, um, you know, as we're on a, a call across, you know, thousands of miles here, um, there's so much that, um, technology makes possible, but I think in some ways it, uh, You know, it can also impact us negatively. And so that's something that's, uh, when we were getting into synth wave, we thought, wow, this, this style could like speak to some of those themes, um, with the feeling of the electric sound and electricity, uh, sort of running through it at its base. Um, and so, yeah, when Philip, uh, when Philip sent that song over, um, I had already had this idea. I had scribbled in my. I chose the machine. I just that one line. Um, and as soon as he sent it and I heard it and it was like immediate, um, that, that was gonna fit really nicely, uh, with the music. And this happens sometimes it's, um, in terms, from a songwriting perspective, I always tell people that ask me about it. Like, just write everything down. Like whether it's. On your phone or in a notebook, whatever, you know your preferences, but don't, don't let inspiration go. Cuz it's it's coming from somewhere it's bubbling up. So write it down and you never know when you're, you're gonna use it. Um, in this particular case, I, I wrote the lyrics really quickly. They, they came, uh, you know, almost like within a half an hour, uh, for the, for the whole thing. I often, um, walk when I write San Francisco's, you know, great walking city, uh, you know, mild climates can go outside all year round. And, and so, you know, I was, uh, often walk around and. This. Yeah, the, the lyrics just came really naturally and easily on, on that particular one.

Marc: 41:16

Amazing. I like the, the concept you have there, the idea of, of technology. And as you say, you can see the, the good in technology as we are now. We're the aim. I'm in the UK. Um, Phillips you're in Germany, Daniel you're in the states, and we're able to talk all at the same time via technology and record this, which is amazing, but on, in the same breath, I think technology, there are, there are negative elements to it as well. And I love the idea of someone sort of like using technology to escape. Um, cuz I think it lends itself quite well to sort of like what we experience now with VR and augmented reality. And as we get deeper and deeper into that realm in terms of being able to escape from our own realities into something else, um, it's a really, really cool concept and the dystopian themes around it. So my question next is, um, so you got this eight part, um, album. Did you flesh out the ideas for the album before you start, before you start writing the songs, do you think right. I'm gonna create a, a proverbial mood board as it were of ideas. And then we start writing songs for the album or does it sort of work the other way? How does that work? Do you, yeah. Do you flesh out the ideas and the concept first and then start songwriting? I think

Philip: 42:24

it, it it's, it really depends. So I think we, we have the whole story, um, developed, um, we now how it ends. Um, so Dan has that whole story developed, um, and we know how it ends and. Yeah. Uh, you know, certainly in the, in the songwriting process, um, I very much, um, look into the notes that he sends me on that story, um, a lot. Um, but yeah, it's, it's, it's different from song to song. I mean, sometimes, you know, I, I sometimes also I have ideas for songs and they might not fit to a certain part of the story. So, um, either make them fit or we take them for a different. Um, but yeah, I think we go back and forth with, um, with that in terms of like, um, you know, um, with the music or with the, also the artwork we're influencing the story a little bit. And with the story, we're certainly influencing the artwork and the music quite a lot. um, so I think, yeah, it's a, it's a process that goes back and forth. Definitely.

Marc: 43:26

Yeah. Cool. I thought it might, I thought that might be the response in that terms of that back and forth. And it's something that I need to work on myself and I'm sure the audience listening probably in a similar position whereby um, fleshing out ideas and that back and forth. Cause sometimes I'm totally stuck for concept. I it's probably the hardest part. I think in terms of songwriting, for me personally, is coming up with an idea. I think I'm very much the technician when it comes to songwriting in terms of, I can. Um, I can, I can mix and, and do all the editing and stuff, but when it actually comes to the song writing side of things, I think that's where, where I probably struggle the most. And I probably need to do more of what Dan was saying just now, which is whereby when I have an idea is to write it down and just write everything down. Um, and then that at least that way you can get rid of what you don't need, but at least you're in a position whereby you've got something. Um, so yeah, I, I, I really do like that approach. I think it's. um, what my next question is, is, uh, it's gonna test, probably test your memories a bit now. So one of my favorite tracks on the, on the first album, um, is low battery days. Um, I think that's a fantastic track and I I'm fairly certain, it's the first track I listened to of you, of you, of yours. Way, way back when I think it was a friend of mine who sort of signposted me in your direction. Um, so can you tell us a bit about this, that, that particular song? So that's yeah. Low battery days. If I go with you, Dan what's what was the concept in the idea behind low battery days?

Dan: 44:47

Well, it was. Definitely born out of some personal experience. Um, and a lot of times what I do when I'm thinking about a song is I infuse my personal experience is kind of where it comes from. And then it. Often takes kind of a direction of its own. So it, in my mind it became a character, um, in the song, but essentially, you know, it was about, and I think a lot of people can probably relate to this, but it's about, you know, you're working a full-time day job and it's really, uh, Taking a lot of your, uh, I don't wanna say your soul, but maybe your vital essence, uh, because you're, uh, you're grinding and working long hours and, uh, and there's not a lot left at the end of the day. Uh, and so that's really kind of the seed of the song. And I remember when I, I can remember when Phillip first sent it to me, I was actually living in Denver at that time. And, uh, I remember I, we often work through Dropbox where he'll put something in for me and, uh, it's always a treat to, to get something new. Uh, and I took it out. Uh, I put it in the headphones and took it out with me to a park that was down the street. And I remember thinking, uh, this, yeah, this feels. Like it could express what I was, uh, thinking about that time of my life and, uh, yeah, got got right to it. I think if I recall correctly, I wrote the, it was one of these situations where I wrote the first verse really quickly. Uh, and then the second verse came later. uh, and that, that tends to happen to me sometimes where I, um, but what's helpful is I have it written down and I can see the shape of it. Um, and then I can kind of use that shape as a map. To write the second verse. I kind of know where things will fall. And, and so if a cool line comes to me, I can sort of see how it might fit into that little map. Um, but yeah, that's, that's a little bit about

Marc: 46:46

that one. Cool. Thank you. Yeah. It's um, I can imagine it's quite an exciting prospect whereby when you you're back and forth for that music of working via Dropbox, and then you have something appear in your Dropbox for you to listen to. I can imagine that's. Um, exciting prospect. Um, yeah, I, I I've been similar situation myself and it it's, uh, I don't wanna say the cliche it's like Christmas, but I suppose it is, it is very exciting when you get that back and

Dan: 47:12

forth. Yeah. It's a, it's a, it's a treat and you know, one of the things I love about our processes. So if I write a first, uh, verse of a song, um, you know, I'll share it with Philip and, and then, you know, he. He gets a vibe for it, and then he can continue to tweak, uh, based on kind of that vibe. And, and then the song comes back to me and it has a little bit more nuance and changes and, and then I'm able to use that to create the next part of the song. Um, and it's just, uh, it's really feels collaborative and, and creative in that way. Um, so yeah, I think it's kind of a. Style, but, uh, it works for us and, uh, it's really inspiring. Yeah.

Marc: 47:56

Most certainly it definitely does work and it is evidenced in your music. So my, my next question is, is for you, Phillip. So this is, um, once again it sort of centers around, uh, low battery days, but that was 2020, I mean, now in 2022. And obviously you are, you're producing your, uh, and you are coming up with the new album. has your approach to writing. Cause you, you mentioned that for the first four songs, I think it was of the album that you weren't aware of. Sy wave has your approach to writing or rather producing music changed since low battery days to let's say, uh, choose the machine.

Philip: 48:31

Yeah, definitely. So I, I think one thing is what we've already talked about. I think I know more like the formula of synth wave now and, and I very much, um, use that and, and sometimes I wish I wouldn. In some instances and, and be a little bit more free of that. But, but I definitely do. Um, but yeah, so I, I remember like when we wrote low battery days, so when I wrote the music to it, I, I hated it with a passion when I first wrote it. Um, and it, it was very, very different at first. It wasn't the chords that are in there now. It had a totally different court structure. And I, I was really about to, to trash it, not to, to, to put it on the album. Um, and then I, I somehow I deployed my, uh, secret weapon. Um, so I, I use, um, Kalu, um, which, um, is, so it it's a plugin by, um, Steve DDA, the, the guy behind X for records. Release serum, for example. Um, so, and it has like these two modules, um, one is like a, um, what would you call that like a core generator and the other one is an arpeggiator. Um, and so an in combination, um, you know, you can make things sound amazing very quickly. And I sometimes, so when, when writer's blog hits me, um, I, I use that quite a lot actually. And, um, I remember, um, not like taking the entire court structure, um, from, from Kalu, but at least having some inspiration for a new court structure and that really restructured the song in a way that, you know, I, I ended up also that, that that's one of my favorite songs now on the album. Um, but I, yeah, I thought it was terrible for, for quite a while. Um, so, but just changing the quarts and the BPM really helped. Um,

Marc: 50:23

yeah, that sort of leads on, um, the question Springs to mind now is when you are writing for the album then, so like say this album, the previous album, do you find then? Cause you mentioned there about you didn't like the song to begin with. Do you find you have a huge bank of songs that you whittled down or do you focus like, like narrowly focus on. the eight songs that you have, how does that process work?

Philip: 50:45

Um, so I mean, we have a lot of songs that we don't release. Um, I think nowadays it's less and less. Um, but from back in the days, um, there are like, you know, probably three albums worth of, of songs that, that we haven't released. Um, and, and rightfully so. Um, but nowadays I, so I, I can't remember. So we be, so the music for these eight songs is written. We haven't recorded all the vocals yet. Um, so, but I think out of the eight, so I think there's one song that we wrote and we said, let's, let's see whether that's going to be on the album. Um, but yeah, so that, that definitely has changed. Um, so I think I know a little bit more how to, you know, um, fiddle around with a song and, and, and, um, make it nicer if I have to.

Marc: 51:36

Brilliant. Brilliant. So I'm well aware we're coming towards the end of the, um, sort of the interview now. So why won't you, it's kind of a nice opportunity for you to sort of end the interview with a, with a plug for the album. So, um, I know we touched on earlier about the concept for the album. Maybe just like, um, from yourself, Dan, uh, a brief summary of what the audience can expect when it's released. And maybe if you have one, a potential sort of. Timeframe in mind, maybe.

Dan: 52:02

Sure. Yeah. So, uh, as we mentioned, it's, it's called love on a dying planet. It's a song cycle in eight parts. Um, and so yeah, we're releasing them song by song as opposed to a whole album at one time. And the story itself, as I mentioned is the dystopian love story. Um, About a, uh, you know, a factory worker who, uh, decides he wants to become part Android and an alien scientist who, uh, comes down to his planet to try and help. Uh, there's been a drought on that planet for, for years and she's coming to try and literally make rain happen again on the planet. Uh, and so unexpectedly considering he has opted out feelings, uh, they, they fall in love and the story goes from there. Um, And yeah, people can, can follow along with it. Um, we on our website, which is year the fall.com, uh, and there's each piece of the story will be posted on there, you know, their very short story blocks and the song, uh, and there's accompanying artwork as well. So yeah, it's kind of a graphic novel vibe in terms of the look and the feel of it. Um, And we would, we would love people to give it a listen. Uh, you know, you can find it obviously on our website, but also all the usual suspects, you know, Spotify band camp and, and of course at year the fall on social

Marc: 53:26

media. Fantastic. That's great. It, I've got another quick question actually, cuz it, it, it, I had this, I had, I asked a similar question to someone, I think last week, um, with an interview, um, and you mentioned there about a graphic novel that accompanies the. Um, I dunno if you've heard of a band called Coheed in Camia. I dunno if that rings a bell at all. Ah, no. May I'd tell you what I, maybe it's just me. Um, but I'm sure they're a band, for example, that they have these two characters and they have a graphic novel that accompanies it's like, uh, an actual comic strip as it were that accompanies the music. Is that something that you think you would do in the future? I mean,

Dan: 54:02

that was, to be honest, that was kind of our dream. When we started, we, we. We searched to try and find an artist that we, we thought would work, you know, that we could also. You know, we're not, we don't have a huge budget. So, uh, the people we were finding that we thought we were like, wow, this guy's so great. And then it's like, he's working on star wars and Mar I'm like, okay, probably a little out of our league. Um, but yeah, that's, that's the dream. And so we we've found some art that we like, um, online that we we've been able to use. But we, I think we would still be open to, uh, working with a, an artist. If, if they're listening out there, please, uh, get in touch. I think, uh, that would be really the dream to be able to like really create it from our, from our own

Marc: 54:46

imaginations. Yeah. I think from what you've said, the way you've described the concept, I think it'd be amazing. I think it'd be fantastic to see because the actual concept sounds so well thought out and fantastic. And. Poignant to the times that we live in. I think being able to have that visual representation with the music as well, I think would be absolutely incredible. So I hope I, hopefully, I hope I hope it does work out. And then you find this amazing artist is usually one of those ones I find where it's somebody who is just like finding their feet, but is an incredible talent. That's the sort of person you need to find. And I'm sure that someone exists somewhere. So the audience listening, if you are that person, do you get in touch with year of the full, um, and, um, reach, reach out to them. Um, please, please do that. And what I'll do is you mentioned earlier, um, or just now about the, the social media links and the web links and the song links, et cetera. And they'll be in the show notes for this episode. So the audience can go away and, and brows with those and check out all your stuff online. But Dan and Philip, um, a huge thanks for joining me today on the podcast. It's been great chatting. both of you about your music and how you collaborate across, across the Atlantic, which is amazing. And how you've been collaborating now for 20 years, which is also incredible. And, um, the good luck with the release of the new album. I'll be, I'll be looking out for it and I'll help promote and push it. And I'm sure the audience listening will check it out as well. But once again, a huge, huge, thank you for joining me today. Thanks

Philip: 56:04

for having us, man. Thanks.

Dan: 56:05

Yeah. Thanks so much. This is really, really fun to talk.

Marc: 56:08

Yeah, absolutely. My pleasure. And I will speak to you both soon. Thank you for listening to our show. If you like what you're hearing, make sure to rate our show on apple podcasts.