#27: Top Tips to Create a Unique Recording | Aisle 9 Music

Aisle 9's career has spanned over 3 decades working in the UK as a producer. Born way back in the….wait for it…Summer of 69. Worked with hundreds of artists from all genres, starting with the trance, rave, and festival scene of the late '90s and moving through to playing in guitar-driven original bands in the alt-rock and grunge scene of the early '00s. 

Now partly driven on by the pandemic, he has finally returned to producing his music once again. His influences are as diverse as Mitch Murder, New Order, Tangerine Dream, The Midnight, Jean-Michel Jarre, Kraftwerk, Daft Punk, Orbital, and William Orbit to name but a few. 

An accomplished songwriter, sound engineer, and musician, his music style incorporates lush synths, filtered funky guitars, treated samples, text-to-speech voices, vocoders, driving bass, and killer grooves. There are electronica, synthwave, synthpop, ambient, and  EDM elements here.

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Transcript

Tim Benson: 0:21

You're listening to the inside the mix podcast with your host, Mark Matthews.

Marc Matthews: 0:27

Hello, and welcome to the inside the mix podcast. I'm Mark Matthews, your host, musician producer, and mix and mastering engineer you've come to the right place. If you want to know more about your favorite sense, music, artists, music, engineering, and production songwriting, and the music industry. I've been writing, producing, mixing, and mastering music for over 50 years. And I wanna share what I've learned with you. So hi folks, and welcome back to the inside the mix podcast. And in this episode, I'm very excited to welcome our guest today. Tim Benson, AKA I L nine. So Tim is an accomplished songwriter sound engineer and musician with a passion for electronic synth wave synth, pop, ambient, and EDM. And, uh, Tim's gonna share with us his musical background, the birth of his musical project I nine and, um, also his production process is so hi, Tim, and thanks for joining me today.

Tim Benson: 1:18

Hi, thank you. Yeah, good to be here. No,

Marc Matthews: 1:22

no, it's my pleasure. So, um, Tim and I have been chatting for a while via various social media platforms about music, bouncing ideas, back and forth. So I'm really excited to about this chat, cuz I've got a lot of questions and I know you've, um, you you've been in the industry a while, so I've got your bio here. So an iron's career has spanned over three decades working in the UK as a producer. Amazing. it says it born way back in summer of 69, it was uh, working with hundreds of artists from all genres, starting off with trance rave and festival scene of the late nineties and moving through to playing in guitar driven bands in T rock and grunge. So quite a, quite a mix there. Mm. So we've got you down as a, an accomplished songwriter, a sound engineering musician. So your style incorporates lot since filled with good funky guitars. Yes. uh, treated samples. So, yeah, Tim, once again, a big, thank you for joining me today. And, um, how are you, where are you joining us from? Just for our

Tim Benson: 2:16

audience. I'm, I'm joining us from at the moment. Sunny, watch it in, um, in west Somerset. So on the coast, in, in the UK. So yeah. Thanks. It's it's been, yeah. Uh, a rare and beautiful week out here. Yeah.

Marc Matthews: 2:30

Mm-hmm it has indeed. So for the audience listening, I'm also from the Southwest as well. So not too far from where from watch it shout out to, to, to Somerset. I used to spend a lot of time, um, out in mine head, I actually used to do rehearse a rehearsal studio, funnily enough, rehearsing in mine head. Um, I cannot for the life of remember what it's called, um, years and years ago. That was, but yeah, so fantastic stuff. So what we'll do, uh, Tim, we'll dive straight into sort of life before I L nine. So yeah. Can you tell our audience a bit about your sort of your musical background? Uh, prior to I L

Tim Benson: 3:05

nine? Yeah, sure. I mean, I think I got into music. It was around 13. I think it was mainly out of boredom. Um, uh, my, my sort of sister, um, played sort of a bit of terrible guitar and a church thing. And my, and the French horn, like incessantly on a Sunday, like, um, which was, she was terrible at, in every way. It was just the most done musical sound ever heard. And, um, like then, but my dad sort of sung in choirs and things. So there was a bit of a whole sort of music background in that way, but there was no popular music at all in the family. Nobody listened to popular music or anything like that, but like, so it was a bit weird really. I sort of grew up like sort of, without that really going on much. I didn't, you know, nobody listened to the Beatles, nobody did that kind of thing. Um, and so I think, you know, you hit that point at each 13 where. You start making your own way and sort of listening to what your friends listen to and everything else. So I think that was probably what spurred me on a little bit. And I started listening to more things and the radio and like sort of, then I just picked up my sister's guitar and thought, oh yeah, maybe I can do something with this. And sort of, you know, I, I, bizarrely I just sort of found, I could pick things out by ear and stuff, and that was where it started really. Um, and then, um, I kind of tried to move that onto the piano, uh, as well. I got sort of like, oh, if I can pick something up on the guitar, maybe I can put it on the piano as well. And sort of, you know, um, and then at some point I decided I was gonna form a band except nobody wanted me. To play guitar or piano or anything like that, they wanted a drummer. Um, so cuz everybody else played all the other things. So I went, oh, well, okay. I'll learn the drums. Uh, um, so I sort of decided to learn the drums, but I wasn't very good drummer. I don't think really when I look back on it, I, but like, you know, I, I sort of manfully went into it, but, you know, um, and uh, yeah, did that. And so that was my beginning was sort of just like learning at that point, you know? Um, so, uh, it just kind of continued and then I, I did get some guitar lessons. Cause I think you mentioned, uh, like, you know, you know, sort of it's, it is interesting know whether people actually get taught these things, whether they just like, sort of just sort of yeah. Pick them up, you know, but like, um, I think there was a point came along where I was like, I think I should actually go and learn something about what I'm doing, you know, and I had a, really, a guy I, I really admired who I'd seen his play guitar and he was really good. Um, and, um, well at least I thought he was. And, and, and, and so he was really good though. He would like, sort of say like, oh, would you like to learn like this or that? Or tell me songs you like, and, you know, so I was really lucky, I think, because he really inspired me and really taught me the way that I found easiest to learn. Really. So rather than saying, you've got to learn to read music, you've got to do this, you've got to do that. He kind of taught me the way I was picking it up. But yeah, it was a natural thing. I think that was sort of there, but like, you know, he really helped it along about six months of guitar lessons. And that was probably about it, I think. Yeah. Hmm. Wow., Marc Matthews: it's interesting the guitar lessons, cuz I, I did a similar thing. I think, um, I picked up the guitar I've been playing for about 10. And then, uh, I went to record an album. Now I tell a Eli in EP and it shine a light on how bad my technique was. So I then went and got, uh, lessons and my guitar teacher, uh, who was specialized in metal. Cause it was, I was in a metal band. He basically, I played something and he was just like, yeah, your, your technique is terrible. Um, so when you, when you went and had lessons yeah. Did you experience something similar from your, um, tutor for one of a better way of putting it or was your technique there or thereabouts? How, how, how did he perceive it? Um, I, I think actually it was weird cuz I, I sort of, you know, I mean obviously a lot of people learned to play with a pick don't they, I mean that sort of the standard rock, rock and pop kind of thing is to play with a pick. But for some reason I'd picked up sort of like playing in a sort of Martin esque style with sort of thumb and two fingers. And he did look at me sort of going. Right. Interesting. And then rather than just go, no, we won't have that. You've gotta play, you know, simultaneous alternate picking until you get it right. He just kind of let me do what was coming naturally. Um, and, um, but he really did help on, on sort of a whole load of other things, like, you know, getting my fingering better and like, you know, sort of like understanding chord structures, understand it was that real sort of background in scales and all that sort of stuff that I was beginning to piece together, but there was a lot of stuff that was missing. And I mean, obviously, I mean, six months, isn't very long to learn that. And you, you, you only learn a fraction in six months and then you find that you spend the rest of your life learning it. I'm still learning it, but like, but of course. I think it, it was enough to sort of give me something to sort of base learning myself on as, um, you know, to, to pick, pick things up myself from that point, you know? Um, yeah. You know, so it was a good, good, good grounding, I think, but, you know, yeah.

Marc Matthews: 8:24

Yeah. It sounds like it was the, when I was in that situation as well, it was quite similar to that. It was, um, I'd not, I basically said I wanna learn a piece of music, which was mega death hanger at oh, good. Um, which I. I know yeah. Aim high. Yeah. Um, which I still, it was the, the sweet picking of Marty Freeman, which every now and again, I'll pick up the guitar and I'm still like, yeah, I still haven't. Got it. Um, was there a piece of music that you in particular wanted to learn with the instructor, uh, with your tutor?

Tim Benson: 9:18

Yeah. That's interesting that one, cuz yeah, I definitely wouldn't have been mega death cuz I, I still can't manage any of that kind of thing. It's just not my kind of thing. But I, I think I was listening to, I was, was quite a big di straits fan at the time. Um, and uh, I think it was, um, private investigations by dire straits, um, which is just like, okay. All kind of, kind of, sort of pseudo classical guitar really, but like, you know, it's probably, it is quite technical for. You know, Martin LER, um, and, uh, you know, in that way. And, um, yeah, it was just long as well. So there was lots of it, you know, it just kept going on and it was all sort of instrumental bits. So, yeah. And he taught me the whole of that and I can still remember it. I dunno if I can play it that well, but you know, oh, wow. You know, so yeah, yeah. Was that you're right though, you get a sort of piece that is sort of like something to aim at, you know, that you really wanna do. I mean, whether now it's not a piece of music, I would go and listen to much, but you know, this great piece of music, but it's weird, isn't it? Your taste changer and your things that you aspire to change. Yeah. So, you know, but it's always good to have something. Yeah, definitely. You know, mm-hmm

Marc Matthews: 10:28

yeah, I think that's right. Cuz otherwise, um, I guess, I don't know you, you could just the way I see it, I guess you could just be practicing for this. Not for the sake of it, cuz you are gonna progress as a, as a musician, but having a goal of something you wanna learn. Maybe I maybe I'll master it one. Then I haven't picked up the guitar in a while to be forever since I've moved over. The word of synthesizers and sound synthesis and sampling. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ex exactly. Do you think this might an interesting question? It might be quite a contentious one. So when it comes to songwriting and having that, having played an instrument, cuz there, there is an argument to say that you don't necessarily need an instrument to, to write music in the digital realm. What are your thoughts on that? Do you think that is important to have a, some sort of being able to at least understand an instrument or having some experience or playing an instrument to be able to write in the digital, the digital digitized world that we, that we write music in?

Tim Benson: 11:23

Yeah. Um, it's weird. I think it is. I mean, I think I can certain, I sometimes hear things from, from people like I'll, I'll hear a track and I'll, I'll be listening to something and I go like, oh, that's really good. And I I'll be enjoying the production and everything. And then something really odd will happen musically. And I'll be like, I don't think that's working didn't anyone notice, you know? And like, sometimes I think like there are things like that where people just will do something strange that doesn't work and maybe they would've sort of like, you know, heard it differently or whatever. They would've like, you know, realized they were sort of singing a major third over a minor chord or something, you know, something like, like that. But at the same time, a lot of the people that I've really loved and like music that I really love has probably been born out of people who didn't really learn how to do music. You know, I mean like a band, like new order or something or joy division or something that I used to listen to when I, it was one of the first things that got me into a slightly more electronic things. And I mean, they were very untied and unschooled and it was nothing to do with that. It was not sitting down in, you know, music colleges and learning how to play. You know, Peter hook never was told how to play a bass. He just decided it sound good with Alandra or whatever, and just went for it, you know? So I think it's that kind of, sort of. The punk ethic, the kind of like do it yourself ethic. I still love that in music. And I think a lot of the people who push music on further are sometimes people who, who don't really know all that well, what they're doing. So I think it's a bit of both. It's weird. It's like, you know, yeah. Um, but there, again, I think there are some people who push things like sort of, you know, um, naturally, um, and come up with really interesting things. And there are some people who, you know, are a bit held back by their lack of, you know, knowledge, what they're doing and maybe they would've done something better. Had they known it. So I can't unlearn what I've learned, but I'm not the most schooled musician either. So I'm sort of find myself stuck somewhere in between the two at times, you know, but yeah. Yeah.

Marc Matthews: 13:32

It's probably quite a nice place to be in as well, because if you, you still, you're still in that sort of, I, I guess as a musician, as a songwriter, we're always learning. I think if anyone was to turn around and say, they've mastered it, I'd probably. Probably I don't call them a liar. Maybe, maybe that's a bit strong, but, um, I don't think you can, it's, it's something you continue. I think, as a creative, you're just constantly learning and evolving and I think I'm much like you where I certainly, by no means mastered the El the electronic guitar. mastered the guitar, um, getting my, my genres mixed up here. Yeah. But no, I, I totally agree with that idea. And I think, I dunno, we'll come back onto production a bit further on down the line, but I think it falls into production. You could say in the same way, cuz I was chatting to a producer called THS yesterday. I think I should pronounce it online. Um, I dunno if you know him, but he, he was mentioning, um, and he sent me a link about, um, underneath the bridge by Nirvana Hannah, the vocals was, were recorded. I dunno if you know the story behind that one. No far away. Yeah, no. So basically, yeah. Yeah. It was Kurt Kaba. So he couldn't, he couldn't quite nail the vocal that the performance he wanted on underneath the bridge. So he basically went and just laid on a sofa and held the microphone to his mouth and just whispered into the mic. Yeah. So I think it's yeah, yeah, exactly. It's cool. Little things like that. That, yeah, if you're not like an elitist, I guess who someone says it has to be done this particular way. Yeah. You would never. Yeah. It's like you would never experiment and find those different things. Like I,

Tim Benson: 14:58

once I once got like this drummer and he was like putting a percussion sort of part, like down, um, on a, oh, I've forgotten. What do you call it? The kind of. Well, this was a big drum. You sort of hold and like play in your lap. I've forgotten the name of it, but like, um, and he was just like, um, uh, you know, I said like, where does it sound? Where, so where do you get this idea? Where do you, like, you know, where does this sound best this drum? Cuz we were trying to get a sound and it didn't sound good, like in the studio. And he goes like, oh, it just sounds great in my car. And I went really okay, well let's record it in your car. So he literally like for a massive long lead out to him, sat him in a, a gemba. That's it, um, out in this car with his gemba. And I recorded it in his car and there was something in the car that definitely resonated with his drum and kind of made the drum sound exciting. And like the bass end sort of took off a bit and his little Fiesta or whatever, and, you know, and, and that was it, but like, you know, pro possibly, you know, we could have just stuck a plugin on it or something, or rather, but it, there was something good about just like thinking outside the box going, like, we'll do this, we'll do that. And we did it a lot with a lot of productions that I did eventually I think people got used to my sort of embracing, you know, I mean, having said that, you know, there was a lot of discipline with the way I record things, but at the same time, I think you've gotta leave space for creativity and not go, no, everything must be done this way. It must be done this way. I always put an SM 57 on the top of the snare and I always do this and I always do that. Yeah. I never ever do anything else, you know? Um, so yeah. Bit of, bit of both. Yeah. Because you've gotta have that creativity in there somewhere. Yeah. Yeah.

Marc Matthews: 16:49

I totally agree. Totally agree. And that, that, that, that forms a nice segue onto my next question, which is about your is good. Right. Which is about the story behind your studios. Now I think I'm gonna pronounce this, correct? Is it Opus? Yeah. Opus, Opus

Tim Benson: 17:02

studios. That's right.

Marc Matthews: 17:04

Yeah. Yeah. So can you tell our audience a bit about that? So you sort of mentioned there about recording. Yeah. Um, can you tell yeah, a bit, bit of the history behind your, your

Tim Benson: 17:12

studio expertise? Yeah. Well, I mean, I think I'd sort of fallen into recording a little bit, um, when I was sort. University really my final years I was doing fine art actually. And I was just like, sort of, um, I was trying to record myself really, and I was working on four track tape machine for God's sake. Um, and you know, in fact did my first album, in fact, it might have, might be my only album date, but no, my on this full track tape machine of myself. And, um, and then I sort of like, um, you know, uh, I was just borrowing bits of gear and everything. And then I don't know, I, I got more gear and gradually this whole thing sort of went over the years of me suddenly moving from being a musician and a songwriter, sort of, you know, other people asking me to record things for them all the time and, oh, will you do our demo and this, that, and the other. And you know, and I initially I had a bit of a sort of basement place in my, my house at the time, uh, sort of towards the end of the nineties and then, um, Uh, that was getting a bit ridiculous. We literally sort of, we had a kid, you know, my son Joel, and like, you know, he was a little baby and like there was a punk band, literally in the dining room. I was trying to fix a tape machine as I had a reel to reel that had blown up and like the capstone and all the bits were falling off and like, you know, and it was, it was mayhem. It was absolute mayhem. And I was just realizing that this concept of running a studio from my basement with a, you know, young family and everything else was just not gonna work. And so. But I couldn't really think how I was gonna get out of that. And, um, I, you know, buildings and everything finding the right place to have a studio is really quite difficult. Um, and, uh, yeah, this place came up, um, a friend mentioned it and it was behind like, well across from a pub behind a Chinese and a kebab shop. And I thought, well, this sounds good. Doesn't it? um, and it, it looked, looked over a village green and it was really kind of, but, you know, it was really hidden away, but really in the middle of this lovely little Surry village. Um, and it was really, no one would know it was there, but it was just behind the shops in this sort of bit. And it was completely sort of, um, uh, sort of detached, um, six, um, well, 500 square feet. So, um, brick building and I managed to get this, this building and buy this building one way. And the other, my dad kindly sort of, you know, supported my dreams really, and sort of said, I'm gonna go at some point in my life. And if you want to use some money now, you won't have it later, but you can use it now, which was, I would've never been able to do it otherwise. So it was a huge thing, but yeah, I, I just bundled into Oprah studios and sort of decided I was gonna turn this place into a studio. I had no idea about acoustics, about any of these things. And I got somebody on board who did, um, and once he'd fallen off his chair a few times when I told him that I only had five grand to turn this place into a recording studio, um, uh, like, you know, um, it took, I beg stilled. I borrowed, I did everything to turn this price into it and. It costs a lot more than 5,000 pounds of course, by the end of it. But yeah, I can imagine, but it, yeah, it turned it into a studio. So I had a, upstairs was a like control room, um, with a S ghost mixing desk and everything. And then, um, and then, uh, with a vocal booth and downstairs was a live room and, um, yeah, and I just never left that place after that. Basically once I got it up and running, I couldn't believe how busy, uh, it got and, you know, it was that kind of thing where, you know, my wife or whoever would have to come and retrieve me from the 75 hours I was spending each week and it was going crazy. I was like in there all kinds of crazy hours and it was great. It was great time. Um, and you never knew who was gonna roll in through the door. It was just like so many different things as well. It wasn't just rock and pop or anything. It was so many different. Yeah. Different kind of recorded brass band calls of, you know, for the. Century or something like, you know, or sort back, but I can tell you what, like bras, you know, bras players in a war in like 1800 would play because I recorded an album of it, which is in the British museum, you know, cuz some guy was mad about nice, you know? So it was, it was random. I'd do everything from that to literally having a metal band in the following day for four days. Um, you know, so it was very, very like all over the place, like styles and concepts, but you know, you were there to record to get a job done to do, you know, it was good, but it was very exciting times. It was good fun, but it was full on.

Marc Matthews: 22:11

Yeah. It, it certainly sounds it, it, um, so I mean, you say you were busy from, was that sort of like from the get go then, as soon as you sort of opened the doors, uh, busy, how, I mean. I suppose it's gonna be different now. How do you see the recording industry in terms of like studios now in term compared to what they would've been in the nineties in terms of actual foot fault

Tim Benson: 22:34

in a studio? Yeah. Cause I mean, I actually opened the studio in 2000 sort of and stopped it in 2016, so yeah, I think you're right. Okay. I think there's been a big change and I could see that change happening. I. In one way, it was like really amazing because like we could do things that you would've never been able to do in a studio at that kind of cost and size. Um, you know, because of technology, um, Butch of course, nowadays is, is, is, you know, um, things have gone even further to points where we're back in the bedroom studios back in like, you know, bringing some gear into a rehearsal room doing, you know, I mean, it, it it's changed and of course, Budgets just disappeared. There is no, you know, people like the record company paying for this, what record company paying for what, you know, it was more and more becoming this DIY culture as well. And that's very hard, like, you know, how are you gonna afford to make a record and spend weeks in a studio? So, and more and more people doing it themselves, finding ways to do it. So, yeah, it was changing rapidly. And I do think you would probably, I don't know, I'm not running a studio now in that way, but like you would probably find it hard. Mm-hmm I think there's always people though who need production, who need mixing, who need skills. Yeah. And I don't think that any amount of necessarily just buying their own equipment necessarily solves that problem. So, you know, um, a lot of people still need that side of things, but they may not always need the space and, you know, um, Yeah. I mean, it's, it has changed, uh, um, I'm not, I'm not a hundred percent sure how, I mean, obviously the pandemic changed it yet again, so, you know, it's been big time of change for studios. Yeah. Yeah. I would

Marc Matthews: 24:25

definitely agree. And um, I think what I've noticed in more and more is, uh, specifically online when you see studios and what they offer and how they're pivoting to, to supplement the income. They would've lost from those bands. Yeah. Like you mentioned now or doing it themselves and you, you are right in that. There are bands. For example, if you want live drums, you're gonna need someone to go in and record live drums. Or there is a, maybe a ceiling to which your expertise, as you mentioned, Um, there's that ceiling that you haven't quite got beyond yet. You just need someone to take that recording and mix it for you. I was speaking to my friend, Chris, who's just opened a studio in Taunton. All right. Um, uh, a few weeks ago and, uh, he's offering all sorts of things now. So he is doing like livestream events, so bands can come in and, and livestream. And I think that's off the back of the pandemic as well. Yeah. Where I think people have noticed that actually, um, there are more opportunities now with, with technology bandwidth. Yeah. And what we have access and how studios can pivot. But I still think it's, it's challenging though. It's just, it's challenging, which sort of like moves me onto the next, next question about, about your studio life. What was your sort of biggest challenge as a, as a studio owner slash sort of like manager

Tim Benson: 25:34

as it were mainly to stop the downstairs toilet from leaking, but, um, that's probably not the answer you wanted. Um, the, uh, yeah. Um, uh, I think, I think the, um, I think the biggest challenge I found with most, most, most sort of projects that came in with, with bands, it was often to sort of like get that kind of thing of realistically what you can manage to do in the time that you've got, um, that time management was really difficult, um, also to sort of get the concept sometimes that like, you know, you wouldn't just fix it all later. If you, you really kind of had to get it right at source. If your drum set sounded absolutely awful. you kind of needed to spend that extra hour to get in the drums to sound good before you just hit record. So there was a bit of that kind of getting performance, good timing, good. All of that kind of getting those things right. And of course, some bands would walk in and they would have that sorted and that, and then you spend a lot more of your time on creative things, but you would always get the bands that really wanted to spend their time on all the creative things. But you were actually having to spend an awful lot of time and budget on, on that side of things on getting, you know, what, in a way should have been worked out before they got in the studio, it worked out, but like, so there, yeah, so it was time management a lot. And then of course those sessions would run over and then you would be stuck there at like 10 in the evening or four in the morning or whatever, you know, finishing off something that was meant to take one amount of time. And people had taken two or three days off to do this and then inevitably. Trying to get it done and, and really pushing their time and their budget. And a problem with that was then of course, did, did everyone get something out the other end that they really were proud of? You know, cuz you always wanted things to go out. I think that in fact, this maybe is more, a better answer to your question is you wanted things to go out the studio door that your clients were proud of, but also you were proud of. And that was really hard because you, so you can't just work miracles. So, you know, and everyone's at different stages and every not everyone songs are as good or musicianship is as good or whatever. So you're gonna get quite varying output and that can be hard as a studio cuz you want everything to sound great. Everything to be, you know, really well done, but it, it's not a possible ability to do that. Realistically. Um, but so that was always a bit of GU when I sort of finished doing something and think like, yep, don't wanna play that to anyone. You know? Um, whereas I mean, like, you know, and other times I'd be amazed. I mean, it's like once I did, like, I did a country rock album and I'm not joking. I think I did 14 songs in two days with an entire band, with pedal steels, with everything mixed, mastered out the door. And it sounded like it had come out. Well, maybe not quite, but like outta Nashville, it was great. It was a really, you could proudly play that to anyone and, and they weren't actually perhaps the most incredible band in the world, but they were very together. They had a clear vision and they were very together and they just weren't really hard and it came together. You know. Um, but yeah, that was pretty incredible when those sort of things happened, you went, how did that happen? That's not meant to it. A lot of people take two days to achieve three songs and they don't sound very good. So, you know, so it's, yeah, it's, it's kind of time management and, uh, and what you can achieve in the time, you know, always, always a challenge, but, but kind of makes it interesting too, you know? Yeah,

Marc Matthews: 29:31

yeah. That that's impressive. In two days, were, were they recording as a, as a unit or was it, or were they over dubbing? Was it a

Tim Benson: 29:38

combination of the, yeah, no. Uh, they were pretty much recording as a sort of unit. I mean, I found like a lot of the time you would get a lot of this sort of thing where. As well, like I found, like it's kind of weird when the way you found how you can work best in spaces in studios is like, like I would sort of, you know, start having the drummer downstairs, playing the drums, but like maybe have the bass player deed next to him or something like that. So he was in the same room and there'd on headphones or whatever. And then the guitarist would be upstairs or something like maybe, you know, potting, a guide track or something at the same time. So that like, you know, de eyeing something. And then the vocalist would be playing acoustic guitar and singing in, in the booth. And then the keyboard player would be in the control room playing keys, and you just split everybody up and track everybody. And so they were all playing together, but essentially just about everything could be used. Um, A lot of it, obviously you would go like, oh, well we'll redo that guitar sound. We'll redo this, but you'd always start off trying to get things that could be used, you know? Um, and the main thing of course, obviously, was trying to get a good drum take, but, you know, um, that you could build on, but like, yeah, it's amazing when you got those bands that were good though. And like, you kind of got a good sound on everybody's things, particularly when guitar processes and stuff started getting a lot better and you didn't have to mic up a Al stack and you still got a good sound, but I was a bit of a fan of micing up. The amp, if I could, but like, you know what it's like, it certainly makes your job easier when someone just plugs in and it's good, but it's after you've turned off their 75,000 defects that you don't want in the patch that, you know, you can like, can you just turn the reverb off 27 presses later, you know, to get, you know, that sort of thing. So there was always these challenges, but yeah. Yeah. That's, I think that's how you get a lot of stuff done sometimes, you know? Yeah. That's,

Marc Matthews: 31:37

that's really interesting. You mentioned about micing up the guitars. When I was in my previous band, um, we recorded albums and we, what was our setup we had and we, we, we were totally, um, we were adamant that we wanted to use and mic up our amp. So I had a 6, 5 0 5 on a Messer Messer four by 12, and he had an angle power ball. If I remember either. So, yeah, some serious. And we spent, we spent ages getting that sound right, moving those that SM 57 around in that cone with my headphones on listen to static noise, trying to get their best frequency response. And I'm thinking actually, am I making any difference what I'm doing right now? Um, but at the time I was adamant, I was, um, but we going back to what you said earlier about bands coming in and time management, we were that band that would come in with 100 called 10 songs and only have eight of them written and then write the last two in the studio.

Tim Benson: 32:33

He were my ne whilst the drummer is recording his takes.

Marc Matthews: 32:36

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that terrible times, man. Yeah. The drummer would spend, he, um, he would spend like three days knocking out the drums, amazing drummer. Um, and it was quite technical stuff. And he'd go all that then. And then we're busy kind of like, oh man, we need to shit. We need to write these other two songs so we can quickly get and

Tim Benson: 32:52

record them. Yeah, it was always my boat bear with metal stuff, which was kind of, obviously it's very, it can be really demanding technically. Um, and I, I, I often found actually that I think I didn't listen to enough of the right music sometimes to like, you know, I think you got producer wise, it demands quite a lot of you to get that, that sound, you know, you've gotta be kind of be in the music sometimes, you know? Um, but like, um, but my back babe was always when I, I thought, ah, great. Yeah, the tracks are sounding great. And then the singing turned up and the singing was the problem, you know, like it, it seemed to be a problem, like sometimes with metal bounds that you'd have everyone else was amazing. And then the vocals, you know yeah. And really hard to get really great vocals, you know? And I mean, not, not everyone's kill, switch, engage, you know, I mean, and it's, it's great when you get that and you get like, Oh, my word, these are stunning vocals on the top of really heavy music, you know? Um, and that was always the thing. I was a bit dreaded of, like somebody sort of, you know, um, but I mean, did, did some good stuff, but yeah, it was always, always a tricky getting that. Right. You know? Yeah. I

Marc Matthews: 34:01

agree with that. And, um, I probably don't listen to as much. Well, I certainly don't listen to as much metal music as I, I used to, but I, I do notice that when you, you, you find a new band, you think, oh, this production's really, really good and you're listening to it. And then suddenly the vocal kicks in and you kind of just go, Ooh, it's hard though. Metal vocals. Yeah. I, I mean, I, I wouldn't wanna be, I, I wouldn't wanna be a metal vocalist it's and they're hard to find as well. Going back to what you said earlier about joining bands and the instrument that you play. I think the drummer is always difficult to find yeah. Bass players and, but of decent vocalists finding a decent vocalist and who can also like replicate that live. Yeah. As

Tim Benson: 34:36

well. Whereas 700 guitarists. a challenge, Roy queuing up. You . Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Marc Matthews: 34:45

And somehow I managed to find a band and I wasn't ever that particularly great at playing guitar, but I dunno, maybe I, I, I always put it down to my, sort of my business acumen as, as I was able to book gigs, you were the one through all that sort of business.

Tim Benson: 34:56

So that's where my got the bands of the gig and got them. Yeah. I know what you mean. It's the organizational side of things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm

Marc Matthews: 35:05

yeah, exactly. Um, cool. That's that's amazing. It's great to hear, hear, hear the, the story behind that. Um, and I'm fairly certain, cause I've been in the studio quite a lot and as of view, we could probably spend another hour or so. Talking about various studio stories. I'm sure we

Tim Benson: 35:20

could. Um, which could be a great, another great episode actually, to be fair. Yeah. Yeah. There are a few, but , let's take a

Marc Matthews: 35:26

quick break from this episode so that I can tell you about a free resource that I made for you. It's a PDF checklist that describes what you need to do to properly prepare a mix for mastering. So you've done the hard work and you love your mix yet. Suitably preparing a mix for mastering is often overlooked by musicians resulting in delayed sessions, excessive back and forth conversation and frustration on both parts. I want to help fix that. So if you want this free resource, just go to www dot synth music, mastering.com. As this checklist will help and guide you to make the mastering process as smooth, transparent, and exciting as possible. So again, the URL is www dot synth music, mastering.com for this free preparing a mix for mastering checklist. Let's get back to the episode. What we'll move on now is, um, is like the birth of, of I L nine. Mm. So how did, how did that come about first thing really? Um, what inspired you to, to start writing, releasing sort the, that electronic syn style

Tim Benson: 36:26

music? Yeah, I mean, I guess the, the beginning of it had come through, I mean, you mentioned like sort of, um, techno trance sort of, uh, you know, Rav scene thing that had happened in the nineties. And that was a big thing for me because, um, I was pretty sort of like, I liked guitar based music. That was what got me in initially to music. And then, um, and don't get me wrong. I did start listening to other things sort of fairly early on, um, because I had a lot of friends who were into sort of stuff like new order and craft work and ABC and OMD, and lots of the, sort of. I guess the 80 synth pop stuff, the cure, like all of that sort of stuff was around the Smiths and lots of, lots of things that were, you know, had different elements to them. So I wasn't just listening to, to rock music, but like, um, but like, uh, then I had one friend who was at the BBC, um, and, uh, he was working as a sound engineer there. And this was at the point where I was sort of trying to learn a bit more about recording. And, um, we, we were really best friends and I used to go up and he had. Um, he had an Atari St with like, you know, mm-hmm,, um, uh, Cubase on it. And, uh, like, you know, we were busy sort of, he had all, you know, um, a whole load of sys, like an Oscar, an imposs, and a, like, um, a a, like, we had a JV 10 80 Roland, and we had. The a, I S three thousands and all this sort of stuff. Um, or he actually had an a, I S nine 50, the most sought after thing apparently, but there we go. Um, but like all these bizarre things that, you know, they made, they 12 bit sample made sound. They had no memory made everything else, sort things, but like, it was actually really quite difficult, getting anything achieved we're doing quite well. It was like every time you wrote a song, you almost had to like, not turn anything off. We really, until you recorded it down to something, because like saving all the patches, right. We never really, it was, it was not like it is now didn't get, so that really got me into trying really into the, began to love doing, I did used to sort of got into it and I felt like it was a shame. It felt like there was a sort. Time where I could have maybe what we were doing, you know, started releasing records, few people. Then I went into the studio. So I think that's the beginning of R nine was coming back to that years later, when the studio in 2016, I, I had to been having some health issues and I began to start thinking, I look, this is crazy. The kind of hours I'm working, everything else is working. My kids have got older and stuff. And I was thinking, you know, um, we were actually wondering about selling up the studio and like, because as you said, things have changed in the studio world and how busy it was. It changed and everything. So, um, yeah. And then I start thinking, I think I'd like to get back into. Actually doing music, myself and electronic music, but then somehow I discovered synth wave. I discovered like, you know, that there was this sort of thing that was a bit eighties, a bit nineties that was kind of accepted guitars, trance. Didn't like guitars, you know, and with all this sort of stuff where I was like, ah, this is a bit of a kind of like, you know, sort of transfer rock musicians. It's kind of great. It was kind of like, it had a sort of, lots of elements of things that I'd liked over the years involved in it. And like, you know, so, um, so I became interested in kind of what was going on with that. And, um, yeah, and then, you know, I think it was just like circumstances of finding myself in a small studio in my house, a little writing studio and going like, actually I'm not running out and doing all these. Recordings for other people and just giving myself a bit more of a chance to do my own stuff again and discovering it, rediscovering what it was like to write music again. And, and then thinking now I'm at a point where as well, actually putting it out. I don't need anyone this to sort of say to me, you can put this out. You can't put this out, I'm gonna sign you to my label. I'm not, you know, it was like, oh, well, if I come up with something, I like, I can put it out myself. So that was probably what started it all off.

Marc Matthews: 40:55

That's a, it's an amazing story. And I lo I love the, um, the description and it's a great way of putting it. I think transfer rock musicians. I think that's a great way of putting it. It's probably,

Tim Benson: 41:05

and probably SAC religious to some to say that, Marc Matthews: but I think some truth in that. I mean, you, I, I see it all the time and I I'd say this's pretty much, I probably say every episode's the case of like, there are so many rock metal, alternate rock grunge, whatever it may. Who move into the synth realm and then synth wave, retro wave, whatever it may be. And it just seems to be like a pull and a gravitational pull that pulls them in. And, um, yeah, I mean, there are so many, so, so many definitely like I try struggle to think of one that I've spoken to, that hasn't got some interest, actually. I tell a lie, maybe Herman from the future kids, I think he comes from a hip hop background. Right. But that might be from, from the podcast I've done. Probably the Hermann's probably the only one amazing, amazing guy, but there's a bit of, bit of, no, it's, it's the hip hop. I've noticed quite a lot of hip hop artists that are starting to do. I've had a few people asking to be on playlists recently, like into this, uh, who is kind of working the other way, sort of hip hop artists who are like gonna, oh, there's this lovely eighties, retro flavor, that's going into things. And they're wanting to put it into their tracks and like doing these kind of slightly hybrid things between that. I've noticed a bit, I mean, obviously. The weekend and, you know, there's some, some bigger acts that have got that going on. So, but yeah, that seems to be happening sort of the other way down if you see what I mean, you know, quite interesting. Yeah. Yeah.

Marc Matthews: 42:33

I think you're right. And I think there's, um, I, I say I discovered I, I had a brief, I notion that it existed, but lofi, I believe, yeah. I, I probably sound quite old the way I described that. Lofi um, but, um, see, yeah, it seems to be another way that synth artists are moving I've I've looked into it myself. It seems to be a very ambient chilled form of sort of hiphop slash R and B. Um, but with synth style elements, um, I dunno if you know, uh, Z vortex. Yeah. Um, but his, I think it's his Sidey project. Chrome Chrome works. Yeah. Um, is yeah. Yeah. It's lofi and it's really cool. The stuff he's putting. Um, I must get him on the podcast to chat about it, but that's by by, but he, he, um, and you can just see it's, it is really cool as well to see how the, the genre and the start of music can take different directions. Um, and I suppose it goes back to what you said earlier about creativity and not thinking it has to be done a particular way. And I think also going back to what you said about the way now, you can just write music and release it so easily compared to what it probably would've been, I dunno, 10 years ago. Yeah. I suppose there were aggregators about 10 years ago. Yeah. Um, that you could put it online and distribute it, but now it's just so easy things like distro kid where you pay, what, what is it like 30 pounds a year? And you can just put as many songs as you want.

Tim Benson: 43:50

Yeah. That just wasn't an option, which is a good thing.

Marc Matthews: 43:53

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But do I suppose that, is there an argument then to say that maybe because it's so easy to put music out, there's a lot of music that's put up that isn't necessarily that. Good for one of a better way of putting it. Yeah. And it can become quite saturated and hard to stand out amongst all that noise. Definitely.

Tim Benson: 44:11

Definitely. I think that, that is, that is the downside of it, but, you know, I guess, I guess it's, it is also great to, you know, to have that, that option to be able to reach. A big audience with what you do potentially. Mm. You know, but yeah. Yeah. It is, it is, it is problematic. And the gatekeepers to these kind of things have changed. Now, maybe they're the playlist owners, maybe they're the, you know, people running, um, internet, radio, maybe they're the people like, um, I mean, obviously there are still labels involved. There are, you know, there are different gatekeepers, um, uh, to sort of getting success in what you're doing. So, um, and there always have been, and there always will be, I guess there are always, you've gotta have somebody who's filtering these things down again. These people are a different level than these people, or these people are worth listening to more than these, you know, but like, I guess we're sort of, we've got, you know, it, it, it did feel like at one point, like, you know, it was like, you literally had to TruD round, like sort of trying to convince people to listen to your record, uh, your, your, your demo and make a record and invest in you. And, you know, it's just a different world than that, I guess, you know? Yeah, totally.

Marc Matthews: 45:26

And then the, the minute now you mention it, it, it reminds me of the time whereby we'd have an album pressed and that I recall sitting and putting albums in a Jiffy bag. Writing the address and then sending it to ear eight records or sending it to I think we said one to road runner records. I don't know what we were trying to do there. Well, but Hey, how you never know. You never know. Yeah. yeah. Once again, aim high. Um, but now you mentioned gatekeepers. I never thought of it that way. Obviously I know gatekeepers exist, but now you mentioned gatekeepers and like Spotify playlists and how gatekeepers have changed. And that's an interesting thought and an interesting concept. Cause I never, never really thought of it that way, but I, I think, yeah, you're right in that, like they, they sort of almost denote where you sit. Yeah. I guess in, in the pecking order, in the hierarchy of, of music that is released in your genre, Can be dictated by, by a Spotify playlist.

Tim Benson: 46:17

Yeah. And sometimes, you know, I mean, don't get me wrong. There are people who run Spotify playlists, who are incredibly like, knowledgeable about the particular music that they're running at their playlist about very into it. But like sometimes, you know, you, you are, it could be very subjective. It can be very sort of like, you know, it's like, somebody's got an incredibly successful playlist because they put time, money and effort into it. And there, you know, you wanna be on that playlist cuz it's gonna do good things for your music. And yet they may just not like your music and you may not get on that playlist. Yeah. And, and I think a lot of people get quite demoralized by those sorts of things. But I, I think the other way of looking at it is going like, well, I'll find someone else. Because there's bound to be somebody else who will put my music on, who will like my music and put it onto their playlist. And there's so many now it's just like, don't be put off by the five people you talk to. Didn't like it because there're only five of them, you know? Um, and, and there's a lot out there, so, but, you know, yeah. It can be, can be tricky sometimes, but I mean like rejection is not nice, whichever way it comes. So, you know.

Marc Matthews: 47:26

Yeah, yeah, you're right. And I think, um, I think in the music industry and being a, is a creative as well. I think I dunno about you, but I think I'd just get used to the, the art of rejection. Yeah. Um, yeah, definitely. It happens frequently and I'm sort of like, okay, talk that one off, move on to the next one. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and it just comes with the territory really? Doesn't it? Yeah. So what I wanna talk with now about Tim is sort of like move on to the, the music that you've released. Yeah. So, um, your first release, uh, Miami nights. Great song. Thank you. Can you tell our audience a bit about sort of like the, the idea behind ma Miami acts, how it started? What was your influence behind that song?

Tim Benson: 48:07

Yeah, I mean, I think, um, It's weird. It started off like instrumentally. I think it was just like, it had quite a dance sort of piano on it kind of thing. Cuz there's a version I think on my SoundCloud that was just purely instrumental. Um, and like a lot of my songs will start off being an eightball masterpiece of like, you know, just like some sort of groove and like I will just like kind of, you know, put chords down and whatever. I was quite into this text to speech thing though, that I'd used before. And I was like, oh, I quite like this. It's royalty free kind of, you know, fo Fofo calls. I just like type in what I want this person to say and I'm gonna use their, you know, I got into doing that. And so I'd literally used them on I'd just like type into Google, like text to speech and like you could get ones that would output it as a wave or an MP3. And I'd just like, so that was like how the little vocal sample at the beginning came and often it's like that I'd kind of get a vocal sample or I'd do something like that. And then that's a germ of an idea with a chord progression and then it kind of spin, you know, it flies off into something else. I mean, overall once I'd started to get more of a track together, um, like I, I definitely was influenced by like, um, some sort of things like that. Classic, uh, cult classic miracle mile, the movie, um, like was a bit in my head. Like there's some, like, you know, some things that got in started sort of that's I started to get lyrical ideas and start to try and, you know, well, I say that I didn't think this was gonna be a song and then. A song emerged, you know, lyric or ideas came into my head, a melody came in and then it changed. Um, and it changed into a song which, um, you know, he is always, I never quite know when a song is gonna turn up or whether it's gonna be instrumental. So, you know, um, but I am definitely sort of working more with a song kind of thing a little bit more at the moment, trying to sort of head down that route. That was, um, but like, uh, yeah, it was, it was, it is often fairly organic the process, um, you know, but like starts with the groove add sounds, explore, you know, something maybe triggers something. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

Marc Matthews: 50:20

Uh, like, so when it that's, that's really cool. So when it comes to the, obviously you've got your ideas down, do mix as you go along. Yeah. Like roughly and then, and then mix do a final mix at the end. Um, are, when, when it comes to your mixed down, are you, uh, a mixture of, uh, like analog sort of, or hardware and or so and software? Or are you

Tim Benson: 50:42

strictly in the box? I, I am strictly in the box these days. Um, uh, mm-hmm , although I think there's quite a lot of like, certainly on things like vocals and guitars and stuff. I, I do use the UAD Apollo and of course you've got a bit of a, you've got a bit of a thing because you can record through plugins on that without any latency. So, you know, you can have like a, you know, a Neve preamp or whatever. I mean, I know these are simulations, but like, you know, you can add sort of character as you track, which is a bit more reminds me of what it was like, you know, working in a more analog way. So. I do sort of do a little bit of both. So I, I think I try to track actual live instruments, like, you know, with a bit of character often add a bit of Sonic character as a go, but obviously trying to not put something on that I'm then going to regret and have to take off, but, you know, um, uh, yeah. And, um, uh, but yeah, I am constantly trying to, I think that's something that I keep in mind though, is trying to sort of all the way through is like any sound I'm getting, does that sound work? Can I get that sound to work? If not, I go for something else, but, and it's kind of almost like I would do that when I was producing and someone was like, Playing drums or playing guitar or whatever be like, is that the bass sound we want? Is that the drums? So I was constantly making those decisions. Cause a lot of the time obviously doing that, you weren't able to change it later. You were sort of like, right, this is the bass sound we're recording for this band, you know, so you didn't wanna record the wrong one that wasn't gonna work later. So I think I definitely still have that kind of thing in mind. Although of course you're in the box and things are very elastic. You can change them, but it's still trying to mm-hmm build, I think from like, is that kick drum and snare and that, that right. And then you, it is gonna affect your choice of what base you put next to it. If you put a certain kick drum on, you might not like a whole loader base sounds next to that. And a whole load of other base sounds might sit well, you know, you, you are constantly making those judgements rather than just going, this is my favorite kick. This is my favorite, you know, I mean, or, you know, I think I'm constantly trying to listen to how the different elements. Work with each other. So as I'm writing, I'm listening to, oh, does that pad work well with that? Oh no, that's a bit got too much low end or that's like, you know, too pokey in the lower mid or, you know, and obviously you can change these things, but I'm always trying to aim for something that essentially sits well without too much playing around. And I say that sometimes some things are very messed about with, you know, they are intrinsically, you know, you, that's the creative process in the, you sort of like you mess about with something and completely change it. And then it works. But you know, a lot of the time you're, you're trying to sculpt things that work together, you know, which helps your mixing process. You're kind of doing the mixing process as you choose your sounds, as you put your track together, as you work out, what even parts go together, you know, does that parts. Go with this part, or am I adding way too much complication, which is gonna clash with the vocals or are they sitting in the wrong frequency range per this, that, or the, you know, you, you're trying to put parts together that work together as well, rather than just go, I'll put down all my ideas and then I'm sure it'll work out, you know, um, that sort of

Marc Matthews: 54:11

thing. Yeah. And I, I think I echo that sentiment. It's it is certainly a way that I do things as well when I'm, when I'm writing and I'm going through and I'm putting pieces and, and parts together. I, I have tried in, in previous, in previous sort of writing sessions where I've just thrown a load of ideas, almost like a sketchbook, um, and just thrown ideas down, but I still gravitate towards, does that sound right? Does that go with that? Does that go with that? And, um, and I, like you said, I think it just helps with the, when it comes to mixdown because you already have something there you have a nice foundation to start with. Yeah. Which leads me onto an interesting question with regards to your, your sounds themselves. Are you sculpting your sounds. So you've got your synth, your, your, your VST. Yeah. Are you sculpting your sounds? Are you going in there and actually going through like the synthesis and creating them yourselves? Or are you kind of like a mixture maybe? Or are you using yeah. What do they call? Not pat patches. Yeah. That's the word I was looking for. Patches. Yeah. And then moving on from there, um, how does that work in your, in your creative

Tim Benson: 55:09

process? Yeah, I'm often, often, you know, I will be preset surfing and, you know, going for, you know, or maybe even start from a, you know, from something I have used before that I liked, you know, presets that I've started to create. Um, and then, um, I'm trying to do that more actually kind of create my own presets and save them and return to them. But then even if I load one up, I'm. Go. All right. Yeah. You know, Miami nights pad sound bright, lovely on the Juno, but like then what am I gonna, you know, I'll start editing it a bit. And I've, it's very seldom. It's not entirely, but like, you know, it's very seldom that I will just like, literally grab a preset and go, oh yeah, it's absolutely fine. It's quite probable that I'll start doing things. Although a lot of the time, it's not like I don't spend forever, like in complicated, you know, like modulation matrices or something. Like, you know, I kind of try to write a piece of music. You know, I probably get a bit bored with that. I'm not like Mr. Synthesis in that way, you know? But I will be like, oh, the attack, the decay, the release, the, the filter, the, you know, there's a lot of things mm-hmm, that, you know, you can quite quickly start to sort of, you know, change your change, the sound you've got and yeah, you wanna kind of get a sound that's yours, don't you, you know, as well. You like, you kind of, yeah. As, as part of that, isn't there, you know, um, sometimes you've got a sound in your head, I think, but not always, you know? Yeah.

Marc Matthews: 56:45

I agree. I often do that. I'm thinking, um, what I went, I went through a process and it's something I might start doing again. And it kind of is interesting, cuz it's sort of, uh, is it's like the other side to the coin of what you said there is, I went for a phase of like, I'd have separate sessions whereby I'd have like a, a song writing session and then a sound design session. Okay. And that sound design session was where I'd have like an idea in my head and thinking, right. I want that. Or I'd hear a piece of music or, or just a sound I think. Right. I wanna recreate that and I' put up, uh, some thought sort of. And then as you say, , as you mentioned that I just get lost in the world in the back end of synthesis and start, start rooting all these different parameters and having right. Okay. This envelope's gonna control that parameter there. And then this LFO's gonna go in and it's gonna trigger this on that envelope and vice versa. And then I'd end up with this weird, weird sound. And I'm thinking I've just spent two hours on that and I don't end up using it. I think once I did actually on my recent track, there was one particular sound I came up with on you and I, and I was just like, you know what, that's the, and it's probably the only time that I've had a sound in my head that I was able to accurately recreate, which I was really pleased with.

Tim Benson: 57:51

Great. Sounds on that. Sorry, Bob mate. I was just, just gonna say, oh, thanks man. Yeah, really? Thanks. I, I, I really love the track, so yeah,

Marc Matthews: 58:00

no, I appreciate that, man. Thank you. Yeah, I think there's like a, there's like an evolving pad sandwiches in the pre chorus. Um, I was gonna try and imitate it then, but it would, I wouldn't do it Justin and it is that particular sound that I came up with. I was like, oh man, that's actually really, really, I might have stumbled on it by accident, but yeah, I think like you mentioned there about sound design and synthesis. I think it can get in the way of songwriting and you can get too lost. It's much like, I suppose, with mixing where you can spend, I, I don't do this anymore, but probably when I was starting out, I'd spend like two or three hours just like pissing around with the EQ on a snare or a drum and then probably just making it worse. Yeah. Um, which is a classic thing to do when you get into that sort of mix. Although

Tim Benson: 58:39

snare my nemesis, like I still haven't found the perfect snare, still searching, you know, it's that and, and yeah, you can't get really lost in that. I, I can like spend. This considerable amount of time feeling like that isn't quite right. That kick that snare and like, you know, and getting really, and go down a rabbit hole and then come out and go, like, it was fine. Or like, or sometimes like actually go, no. Yeah, he is right. There is something, you know, and change for a different sample or something. Like sometimes that's the other thing you're trying to make something work that basically won't work and you just actually have to go for something else. And, um, but yeah, no, I definitely, I still fall into those Sonic traps or Sonic sort of, you know, detours, but you know, it's not, it's not easy, is it? Yeah, exactly.

Marc Matthews: 59:33

And I think it's what you mentioned. There is a key thing is being able to recognize when something doesn't work. And I think that's something I'm still, still working on myself is no, actually. Okay. I've been working on this track now for what like two or three hours, probably longer than that to be my own stuff. When I work on my own music, I work on it for. For like days wigs, like my, my recent track. You and I I've been sat on that for about a year. Yeah. Um, but when I'm working on other people's music, I set myself a deadline. I'm like, right. I've got, I don't know, I've got four hours and I'm gonna go in and I've gotta work on this mix. And I get it done just the same standard. But it's when I'm working on my own stuff that I, I cannot see when something's not working. Right. Yeah. I think it is. And it's been able to recognize anything, actually I need to, I need to rip up that, that baseline, cuz that that sound isn't working or something along those lines. The one instrument that I struggle is probably the wrong word, but I challenge, I find challenging the most are Tom's getting Tom's to sit in a mix. Yeah. For me or finding the right Tom sound at the moment I go for a combination of like Lind rum and, and I think it's RX 7 0 7 Toms. I think it is. I think. Um, but yeah, Tom sounds for me are the ones that I probably leave until the end cuz I know I'm gonna spend ages on them.

Tim Benson: 1:00:45

Yeah. Yeah. I, I find this find the same, actually, and they're, they're, they're somewhat, you know, they're very important. Aren't they, to, um, to Sy wave stuff. Like, you know, I, I know, like I had, um, someone who should remain nameless or who runs a, um, you know, a really good playlist and like just didn't, you know, it was good. It kind of left me a comment on the track and he really liked the track, but, um, didn't like, Voco just decided that Voco, wasn't something he didn't like. I was like, okay. Yeah. It is like, I was like, well, it's kind of like, quite part of the genre, but never mind. Okay. But like, didn't like, didn't like volcano and I was like, accepting that, then it was just like, yeah. And I felt your Toms just like, didn't kind of cut the mix enough. And I was like, other than that, it was good track. Was it okay? You know, and it's just like, you know, you know, when someone essentially just like the track wasn't for them, which is fair enough, but like, yeah, it's kind of, but it is interesting. It's like when, when those are the two, two comments about the track and like, and you're gonna, well, it's fair enough. But like, you know yeah. But I, but I did think then I've been thinking about Toms ever since. So every time I do something I'm like, is that Tom cutting enough? Or is he gonna say the same things? so yeah. You do get booked in these things.

Marc Matthews: 1:02:10

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I had some feedback, uh, it's probably about a year or so ago on a few, uh, some songs I released a few years back and it was, um, it was something to do with the, around the, the, the mid range, um, around one and two K. And it was just, just a bit too, too. Um, what was the, what was the word? I can't remember now, it was just peaking too much and around the one or two K range. And I said, And it was kind of like a across the, these, these two or three songs, I was like, oh my, maybe it's something to do with my mix environment. So I went in and I had to listen to the mix environment, got some sign waves going and looking at all the different re frequency responses and stuff. But now ever since then, every mix I do now, I'm just like, all right, better go in and check the one and two K range to make sure everything's sitting. Alright. It's , you know, and I can just get bogged down with that now. Yeah. It's amazing what feedback will do and how it sticks with

Tim Benson: 1:03:03

you? Well, it's sometimes like as well. I mean, you mentioned, uh, you know, I think we've talked before about mastering and stuff and like, you know, I run got this thing, like a mastering engineer, I read on some interview and he said something about. you know, adding one K and like, you you'd have one K like at this certain Depel range. And it just, as if it was a magic pill that would always make everything better. And like, you know, and made all these songs like louder and better. And I dunno, I got this thing stuck in my head that I had to do this, cuz like this guy was, you know, he was a Demi garden. Like he's incredible. I could never make it work. It always sounded rubbish. And like, and until you eventually go like, okay, look, maybe that works for him, but I'm sorry, I've gotta go with my own ears and my own gut instincts and adding one K doesn't make anything sound good to me most of the time. So, you know, it's, it is funny if anything, I probably like less one K, but like, you know, so yeah, it is funny. You can get really hung up on something. Some bit of advice generally from somebody who you really. Hold up there and your estimation is like, you know, God, that person knows what they're doing and you know, and then you spend ages trying to replicate it and like you, you know, and it never quite works for you. So yeah, I think you've, you've got to go with, you've got to trust your ears. You've got to trust your, you know, what is working and not get too hung up on something that you read on a forum once, but, you know, it's, uh, always tricky.

Marc Matthews: 1:04:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I totally agree. And once again, when it reminds me of another, very similar to that, which is years ago when I was sort of like, um, I say starting out, I've been playing guitars and whatnot mixing for ages, but I, I read or saw a video or something. This was way back when, when I started actually mastering my own stuff. And, um, it was a case of like, all right, just not what set a wide key set, a wide cue. Dropped by about half a DB around 400 Hertz. And it were immediately clear up like the low mids. So only these masters I did, like years ago, he'd be like, right. Okay. Set up that EQ half a DB around 400 Hertz bag, the low mids are sorted. And I did that for ages, man. I did that. Oh dear. Yeah. And it's amazing what you just think, because it came from somebody who, um, was of a certain standard. I was like, well, that's clearly

Tim Benson: 1:05:29

what I need to do. That's clearly what I should do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, yeah. I was, I was amazed where I sat in on a, a mastering session at, um, metropolis on, um, on a, uh, an album I've worked on and, uh, it was being released in universal and for a client and, um, uh, you know, it's a good album and whatever, but like, I, I was astounded cuz like it was, they were spending more on the mastering than they'd, you know, in two days at metropolis and they'd spent on the entire recording of the album, which I felt was a little bit round the wrong way. But like, you know, it was the record company, the record company basically saying, this is our guy and he's gonna master it. And if you don't master with him, that's it, your, your, your record's not going out. So that was the way it went. And um, and I just sat there cuz I never had the chance really sitting on such a, he really knew what he was doing, this mastering engineer, amazing PMC, you know, speakers in incredible room. And the thing that astounded me was that he spent the entire first day just listening to the tracks and moving an EQ like, and that was all he did on every single track. He was balancing them up and changing subtle bits on the EQ, on the vice EQ, which cost on insane fortune. But like, you know, and., but it was weird that what he did was nothing, all these dramatic, huge things. It was something very subtle because essentially there were a couple of tracks that I knew. I heard them as soon as I heard them on, there were like, those are the dodgy mixes on this album. They're not great. You know? And the, they, well, I still wasn't happy with them, but like, and that took him more effort to try and make them better. But like, it's funny where that you see sort of what you think there's gonna be some incredible process. And I said to him, don't use multi band, light lows. And he goes like, I don't really like it very much occasionally. And that'd be it. I was just his answer, this great mastering engineer. I'd be like, well, I've been told that that's the guru of all mastering for like years. And so it's funny. Sometimes all these things that you hear are not quite what you think it's it. But what he did was golden. What he did was really, really good, but it was really considered and quite small and it was. The mixes were hopefully fairly good and he knew he didn't need to do an insane amount to them, but he knew exactly what he did need to do to them to make them really good. And then there was a bit of limiting and there was a few other little bits and things that went on in the final day. And then, you know, the masters were really good and sounded really good everywhere, but it wasn't like this insanely complicated process with billions of things going on. It was just very considered what he'd experienced, hands and ears. Yeah.

Marc Matthews: 1:08:18

It's, uh, I I've done the same. I've sat in on mastering sessions. Um, so there, there was a mastering studio down near me, uh, and I cannot remember the life of it. Oh, not loud mastering. Cause that's in Thornton. Oh, that's gotta bug me now. Super audio mastering. That's it. Um, so yeah, the guy who runs that, I can't remember his name really bad. Um, but he, uh, was on the tubular bells session with Mike Oldfield right? Yeah. Yeah. So he'd done a lot of the Meridian stuff, but I went in and watched a session with him and it was very much the.. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Great, great. Uh, what's the, what's the concept album with Kaylee on it? My friend bang him about it all the time. Script

Tim Benson: 1:08:54

for adjusters tier and all that stuff. Yeah. Love them. Oh,

Marc Matthews: 1:08:57

I can't remember. It's great album. Great album. My boss. Yeah. I went in and, um, spent a day there and, um, it's just amazing to watch mastering the engineers work. This is years ago. Um, when they've got this, this whole treated studio and they've got all this gear and it's amazing, amazing, amazing stuff. And it is interesting. You mentioned about multi band with multi band compression. Cause I, I, I was along those lines as well. So I went and did the whole academia thing and got with music production and stuff. And I was led to believe like multi band compression in, on mastering is, is the way forward to distribute energy, cetera, et cetera. And then I saw something with Bobcats. Yep. And then Bob Kas, um, was just like, nah, um, motor bank compression.

Tim Benson: 1:09:37

I was just like, okay. Yeah, don't use. Yeah. And I mean, yeah. And he certainly knows what he's up to, but yeah, funny, isn't it. But, but again, like, yeah, yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. Sometimes though, sometimes you, you know, like something like that is just absolutely the right thing to pick out the bag. I think, you know, you've got some tricky sort of, you want, I mean, you get these records where you're just amazed at sort of how they've managed to pack the low end in to the degree they have and make it sound like they do. And you know, and sometimes maybe that's what they've done or something, you know, or like saturate the low end or done something. So you, there are all kinds of different things, but it's just, I think it's that thing, the feeling I've heard it so many times where people say like, yeah, well I just like use this preset and that'll work. And I went well, well, no, it probably won't. I mean, it might be a good starting point or something, but like, you know, it's like, Does it sound like it's working? Does it, you know, so you've got, you've got, and I'm still tr learning to trust my ears, although my ears aren't as good as they were, which doesn't really help. So , , they've not improved over the years of blasting them with stuff, but, you know, yeah. I,

Marc Matthews: 1:10:50

I know that feeling I've, um, Tim I've just realized we're an hour and 10 minutes in. Okay. So what I really want to do, um, is before we, before we wrap up is just talk about your most recent releases. And so let our audience know about, um, beautiful airwaves and ghost of the sea. Yeah. Um, so maybe just like a, a brief description of those two tracks and what

Tim Benson: 1:11:07

they can expect. Yeah. Um, well, I mean, both of those are out on my band camp at the moment. Um, I think they will. You know, coming out on my Spotify and digital, um, things as well, but like, um, beautiful airways, basically sort of a journey track, um, sort of got that themes of motion and all that kind of thing sort of reminds me a little bit of like, uh, teenage sort of radio listening, like kind of as a, the, the kind of theme, like, you know, I just don't even sort of artists came to mind like Mr. Mr. And John White and Don Henley and that kind of west Coasty kind of thing. Mm-hmm, , I'm not saying that the track actually sounds exactly like that, but it's got that kind of there's uh, is almost a light, a little bit pink Floyd thing in there as well. Cause there's a little bit of solo in there. That's a bit Gil Morris, but like, you know, so yeah, it's definitely got that kind of like journey kind of theme. Um, and then, um, goes to the sea is, uh, A bit more of a departure from I've been quite into my west Coasty stuff at the moment, but like, that's, um, that's kind of, uh, set. I, I guess it's about watch it really and about the coastline around here and it's about like, you know, that's that's, but it's got a bit of a Trent Resner piano thing going on and it, which I don't know if anyone's noticed that. Yeah. But like, you know, it's got this thing, which kind of keeps going on, but that was probably, you know, quite an important thing in it. So yeah, it's got a bit of like that kind of, that goes to the sea thing. It's got a kind of light and shade in it all the way through, I think, but you know, kind of both instrumental track. Well, no, beautiful airways currently is a kind of track that's. A chorus, but nothing else. So it's kind of like, it's kind of like a, sort of an instrumental trap with a chorus. Um, you know, um, which bizarrely enough, I think really works, but I wasn't sure, but it kind of end up sitting that way at the moment and, um, goes to the sea sort of purely instrumental at the moment, but, you know, um, I say at the moment, because it was always possible that I might change them, but, you know, um, cuz this does happen, but you know, um, no, I'm really pleased with both of those tracks, but they're slightly sort of older. I think, you know, I kind of worked on them sort of the beginning of lockdown and they kind of beginning of the aisle nine journey kind of thing. So they kind of, um, may change, um, maybe different versions coming out of them. So we'll wait and see, but like, yeah, I think they're gonna come onto digital at some point as well. Fantastic.

Marc Matthews: 1:13:35

Um, so for the audience listening, um, I'll put notes, uh, in the, in the show notes, the episode notes for this. So you can go and, and listen to those tracks and I strongly recommend you do so. And. Um, probably my, one of my favorites actually by you is we come in piece the remix. Yeah. Which I think is an absolute banger of a song. And I love the guitar in that as well. Oh, thank you. And so, yeah, I, I highly recommend going, listen to that just, just quickly. How did that, how did that remix come about?

Tim Benson: 1:14:02

Well, that was th Re's track. I mean, I think, you know, I think the original track's great and I mean, he, he, he, he and I just. Talkie, he just sort of approached me and sort of said like, would I be interested in doing remakes? And, um, yeah, we just really worked together really easily. He he's, um, he's a great guy and, um, he sort of sent me over, um, stems and then, um, you know, it's one of those kind of things I started working on a kind of mix and sort of ideas for the track. Um, I didn't wanna take it too far away from what he got already, but like, um, but you know, sort of put my own spin on it, but then yeah, at some point I sort of reached for my top ISG copy and was like, yeah, I think this needs guitar. And, and, and I really wasn't sure that I was doing the right thing. And then I went, I. Yeah, I think I may have just done the right thing at the end there, it just felt like it was the right thing that it needed after the breakdown. Cuz he had a lovely breakdown and then in came with the guitar thing and then I sort of sent it over to THX and he was like, ah, yeah, whatever happened with that guitar was great. But he, he found another bit, which was. It was right. It was, it kind of got a bit elongated and we shortened that bit. And then, then we were pretty much there. So it happened really quickly. Actually. It was a bit like you were saying with other people's stuff, but it was almost like, you know, couple of days and I sort of pretty much one afternoon and like just, just kind of all came together. Um, so it came together really quickly and I've, I've been loved working on that and I've got a few more remixes coming up, so yeah, I'm looking forward to, to doing them with a few different artists. I mean, I won't sort of mention any of them because they're not all signed sealed at the moment, but like, you know, I'm hoping like some more of the kind of synth wave artists who are kind of part of my Instagram groups and, you know, people I know, so yeah.

Marc Matthews: 1:15:53

Amazing look forward to that, but now going back to the guitar yeah. You a hundred percent made the right choice in that. I think the guitar sounds fantastic on that. God say, man. Oh, thank you. I've um, it's probably the song I've listened to over and over again

Tim Benson: 1:16:04

of your stuff. Always nice to hear. Yeah. Yeah. And it's really, really good man. Really. And people, you definitely got it is been, yeah, it's been doing well sort of streams been good, so that's been nice. Yeah. Mm-hmm

Marc Matthews: 1:16:17

um, so Tim, we're coming towards the end now, where can our audience find you online? I'll put all these, uh, these, these platforms in the show notes, where can they find you? Yeah.

Tim Benson: 1:16:27

Um, well, I mean, I'm on. Just about everything. Um, so, you know, I mean, my music's obviously on all the digital platforms, so Spotify tunes, apple music, and Amazon title, YouTube, you know, you name it, um, audio even and SoundCloud, um, uh, and socials I'm on Twitter and Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, LinkedIn, if you could be bothered YouTube and Twitter um, and, uh, you know, uh, uh, I think I've even got a Twitter account, but I don't think I've quite worked out what I'm doing with it. Um, but like, yeah, I mean, so, I mean, I do use Instagram a lot, so, uh, at online music, um, on Twitter, um, and, um, Instagram, you know, is, is really good idea. So I think actually, um, you know, I sort of Facebook is one thing I sort of like, I use begrudgingly, but like, you know, it's great for some things mm-hmm , but like it's sort of, I find it sort of not such a medium, I love, but like, you know, yeah. And, um, YouTube, I'm sort of definitely gonna work a bit more on my YouTube, uh, channel, cause I sort of do seem to do quite a lot of videos, so I kind of need to need to kind of keep uploading them to YouTube cuz I have started to get, you know, some, you know, and, but there's lots of other great synth wave channels out there and you know, it's quite a few people have been using tracks now on like on, you know, on, on their channels as well. So that's really great, really, really nice to see getting in mixes of, you know, videos and stuff. So, but yeah. Yep. It's all all there. Um, lots of socials.

Marc Matthews: 1:18:07

Yeah. I'll um, I'll. I'll put those, uh, links in the, um, in the, in the show notes. It's interesting. You mentioned YouTube is a cruel mistres I find when it comes to the algorithm and, um, well, one thing I, I dunno about you I've noticed of late is, um, the YouTube shorts. Um, yeah. I only started using those recently because I moved into the, into the word of TikTok, um, which is a beast unto itself. Oh yes. Um, me too. Or the con yeah, all the content I put on there. I basically just Chuck it onto YouTube as well, but I found a lot of success in the YouTube shorts. Um, oh really? Cause I was, I was of the mindset of like, alright, I gonna put together these grandiose videos of all this high production quality. Yeah. Um, high quality production. Um, which is great, but I find like I'll put a video up for, I dunno, a quick 15, second tutorial and I have 2000 views. Well, I put my latest music video and it's got like 150. Yeah. Um, which is once again, immersive the algorithm, but no, I

Tim Benson: 1:19:04

think I, Instagram reals are like that as well. Like, cuz I've really started to it's something I started to do more on IGS. Like I'll sort of put up a reel and I'm getting like, you know, four and a half thousand views on a reel and like a few hundred views on a YouTube video, which I was like, oh, um, but like, you know, and I made the entire video and everything else, but like, yeah. So yeah, but, but then I was fine as well on IG you can, you, if you do a reel and of course you work in that more vertical format and then then you put it onto your story. And then you can also create a post from it. So you've kind of killed three birds with one video. So, yeah. Um, and that's really, I'm, I'm starting to like that, you know, um, only it's quite a fun challenge to make a video in that format, you know, especially considering half the time. Yeah. I use my iPhone to make most videos cuz I can't be bothered to move from the sofa. I can't be like, why are you still hammer? Oh, well you, I know I've got like Photoshop, whatever premier or whatever, but no, here I am, you know, not using after effects. I'm just using these couple of, and it's amazing what you can do, but there's so many great apps and things like filter stack. If you've never used it, I love it. You know? Well these things and I, I just find like again, on your iPhone, you just wanna turn something from being horizontal to vertical or you wanna do. And it's surprising like some of. You know, iPad as well, like just like built to be really easy if you don't want to actually sit there and read a manual and get, or watch 95 YouTube videos to learn how to turn your video in premier, you know, or something. I mean, it's weird. It's like quite a lot of stuff can be quite difficult in really high end editors. For those of us who aren't real video people, you know, it's kind of beguiling to be able to make something really good on your phone. So, yeah. Yeah,

Marc Matthews: 1:21:00

no, I totally agree. And I, I often think to myself actually I'm spending all this time learning how to, I dunno, put picture in picture. Yeah. In final cut. Whereby I'd much rather be writing music or mixing or mastering or something like that. Yeah. As opposed. Trying to find the perfect 3d font. That's gonna move from the left to the right. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Um, whereas now I've got my, my old Samsung seven and it's just like a video of me. I need to upgrade my phone to be fair. I, I do need better quality, but I've sort of resigned myself to the fact that it's very sort of not rough and well, it's rough and ready, but it's a much more sort of real representation of me, but that's why I keep telling myself anyway, purely because I can't be bothered to put it in the final cut um, but there you go. Yeah. So Tim, uh, Hugh, thanks for spending the time with me today, mate. It's been

Tim Benson: 1:21:46

great. And um, hope I haven't hope I haven't spun spun this out too long, but yeah, it's been really lovely. Yeah,

Marc Matthews: 1:21:54

no, no, no, no. It's all good, man. It's like I said, we, we could probably chat about like use studio stories and whatnot for, for a while. No, it's been brilliant. And, um, I'm sure the audience listening as well will, will get lots out of this. Yeah. Tips and nuggets of wisdom and whatnot. But yeah, once again, big, thanks for, for stopping by. And I'll put all those

Tim Benson: 1:22:13

links being such a

Marc Matthews: 1:22:14

pleasure to the show for the audience to listen to. Yeah, no, it's my pleasure, man. It's, it's been great to chat to you, you know? Um, it's, it's been brilliant and um, maybe like series three we'll we'll get you back on and we'll go into some more, some more studio stories. That'd be pretty cool.

Tim Benson: 1:22:28

Yeah. One of these days I might, I think that'd be a great idea, man. And by your point, you know, you're not far away, are you? Yeah. Yeah. You know what

Marc Matthews: 1:22:35

I, I was gonna say that next time I'm in the, in, in watch it, I say in watch it. I can't remember the last time I went to watch it. It was a while ago. Do they still have the, the ancient

Tim Benson: 1:22:45

Mariners? Actually they do. Does that watch it? They do. Yeah. Indeed. They have the ancient that is watch it. Isn't it? Yeah, it is. They now have a 7 million pound art center as well, which is a bit bizarre, but yeah, yeah, yeah. But wow. Yeah, no, yeah, yeah. So, but yeah, it's um, it's a, it's, it's a really, yeah. It's, it's a crazy place, but it's lovely place. Yeah. So yeah, come down the, watch it go to pebbles.

Marc Matthews: 1:23:07

No, I'll go do back. I'll I'll let you know. And yeah, if you're ever in the, uh, in an extra way, give me a shout as well. Definitely. Yeah. That'd be nice. We'll we'll have a beer. Yeah. Chat studio work. Yeah. Stories and whatnot. All right, Tim. I'll I'll let you go to enjoy your Saturday. Yeah. Yeah. And you mate, I'll speak to you

Tim Benson: 1:23:23

soon. Yeah. Thank you ever so much cheer buddy. Cheer soon. Yeah. Bye bye.

Marc Matthews: 1:23:27

Thank you so much for listening to the inside the makes podcast, make sure to rate us everywhere you list the podcasts, including Spotify.