#26: What Makes a Performance Successful? | Daniel Hugh

Daniel Hugh is an 80s-inspired synth-pop producer and artist from Northampton, England. After spending years in rock bands, Daniel embarked on a solo project in 2020 resulting in an acoustic guitar-led EP titled 'Stories Involving Time'.

'Inspired by Immortals' was Daniel Hugh's second self-penned solo release and was a marked change in music direction. It could be described as a cross between Dreamwave and synth-pop. With 80s influences from Cyndi Lauper, Phil Collins and Def Leppard, the synthwave-inspired instrumentation is fused with contemporary songwriting and structure, along with big choruses to create a dynamic and emotive listening experience.

The 5-track EP explores the internal battle between our demons and their better angels, and at times fixates on a desire to find a deeper meaning behind our existence. Mental health, anxiety and pillars of support are recurring themes throughout the EP.

Daniel Hugh is signed to Retro Reverb Records and is currently working on his next EP, which will be out in 2022.

To follow Daniel Hugh on Instagram, visit: https://www.instagram.com/danielhughmusic/

To listen to Daniel Hugh check out Bandcamp at: https://danielhugh.bandcamp.com/

Want to join a community of artists and music enthusiasts and gain access to exclusive Inside The Mix Podcast content? Join the podcast Facebook community group here: Inside The Mix Podcast Community

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Transcript

Marc Matthews: 0:01

You're listening to the inside the mix podcast with your host, Mark Matthews. Hello and welcome to the inside the mix podcast. I'm Mark Matthews, your host, musician producer, and mix and mastering engineer you've come to the right place. If you want to know more about your favorite Sy music, artists, music engineering, and production songwriting, and the music industry. I've been writing, producing, mixing, and mastering music for over 50 years. And I wanna share what I've learned with you. So, Hey folks, welcome back to the inside the mix podcast. And in this episode, I'm very excited to welcome our guests. Daniel Hugh. Uh, he is a self confessed synth pop artist with a, with an English accent. Similar to me, uh, signed to retro Reva records. Um, for those of you who, uh, me, or may not be aware, actually, uh, Dan featured on episode 22. So that's series one of the podcasts and we discussed the culture of synth wave scene, synth pop songwriting. I seen sent Paul songwriting, the advantages and challenges of the recording studio. And, uh, songwriting and production as an art. So after this episode, if you wanna go back a little bit more about Dan's, uh, Dan's history, you can go back and, uh, listen to episode 22 or cue it up. Um, so yeah, Dan, thanks for joining me today. How are you? I'm good.

Daniel Hugh: 1:15

Thank you. Thanks very much for having me again.

Marc Matthews: 1:18

Uh, not a problem. My pleasure mate, where are you joining us from?

Daniel Hugh: 1:22

From Northampton, my, my living room in Northampton., that's very good enter of the universe as I like to call it.

Marc Matthews: 1:32

yeah, that's correct. Yeah. Excellent. So we got that described as a cross between dream wave and synth pop, and I love these influences. Uh, so Cindy Loper, Phil Collins, and Def Leard absolutely love Def Leppard. Uh, Phil Collins is one of my favorite guitarists of all time, man. Um, fused to gather contemporary songwriting and structure. So, yeah, Dan, so what I'd like to sort of kick off with is tell our audience a bit about your sort of live performance experience. So going back to maybe your first gig, so can you remember what your first live performance was or, and where sort of

Daniel Hugh: 2:05

serious live performance that wasn't, um, sort of open mic at a purple or something like that was, was probably my first band at university. we set up a band. I was, I was studying kind of sound, sound engineering stuff. So there's lots of fellow musicians and stuff. And we, um, we, I, I wrote a few very emo E uh, , um, emo E pop punky sort of songs. And, um, we started gang and we were probably pretty terrible, but, um, we managed to get some gigs in, in, uh, Camden. Uh, I think the first gig was probably in, um, bar at bar monster in Camden. I seem to remember. And, uh, I think the headline act was supposed to be lower than Atlantis who obviously went on oh, wow. Went on to great things. But on the day before they dropped out and, um, there was a replacement headline band featuring, uh, Ian be's son in EastEnders so, you know, um, Not lower than Atlantis, but EastEnders fame. So yeah, it was, it was, um, it was a, you know, interesting experience. Really. I was absolutely terrified. First time I'd ever kind of played in front of people properly. Yeah. And, and songs that I'd written and, um, yeah, I probably didn't deal with it very well. I think I kind of stood stone still on stage and just tried my best to get, get from the start to the end, without, uh, making too many.

Marc Matthews: 3:44

Yeah. Yeah. I've been there myself. So you mentioned, um, Camden there I've remember playing Camden. I'm sure it was Camden years ago in a band I was in and we played, I wanna say a place called the purple turtle. Does that ring a bell or I just made that

Daniel Hugh: 3:59

up. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I never played there, but they used to do good, uh, great rock club nights on kind of Friday and Saturday nights. So we'd sometimes go, I think I've been to a few gigs there. Um, And it's quite, it's quite compact, isn't it? It's quite a cool space with quite a high upstage. I seem remember, like, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Marc Matthews: 4:19

really cool. I think, I think it's closed down now. We, um, we played there once and we made it and then the second time we were jus play there, we, uh, we were driving from Toton. So the audience listening that is, uh, it's a Southwest UK. So it's probably about 2, 2, 2 and a half hours, I think, to London. And we got lost with the other guitar, with the other guitarist in his car in London. And, uh, He, he didn't, this is around the time as well, where we didn't have like in car charges or anything like that. And, uh, we inevitably, he got lost find his way around. Didn't have a sat nav and, uh, never made it. So we didn't actually play the gig. We drove all the way to London. Didn't play the gig. We turned up just as we were supposed to go on stage and just basically just drove home again. Um, and, um, oh my gosh. Yeah, that , that's one redeeming redeeming memory of playing London gigs. Ah, yeah. You try

Daniel Hugh: 5:09

and take all the lessons you can learn from those experiences. I think, ah,

Marc Matthews: 5:13

it was awful, awful. Uh, the stress of, I mean, the,

Daniel Hugh: 5:17

the, the, I was, I remember kind of feeling like or expecting sound check to be something a lot more kind of comprehensive and concrete that would actually. help us in our performance or something. It's yeah. It's just like, you might as well turn up, you know, if you're the opening support band, you might as well just turn up five minutes before you're supposed to go on stage and, and, uh, and get on with it really, for, for the amount of, um, sort of care that sound guys generally give you, but yeah, that's probably not fair on lots of sound. But I do.

Marc Matthews: 5:52

I do. I do recall similar things when, when you first giggled and like you were having the, the, the conversing with the sound guy, did you sort of like, know what, how to respond? So did you have any idea of what you wanted in your monitors? Cause I remember that they'd ask when I first started out, they asked like, what do you want in your monitors? And I'd just be like, I, I dunno a bit of everything no,

Daniel Hugh: 6:13

I think, I think probably what happened was a couple of the guys. In the band had been in other bands and like, sort of knew how, what types of things to say. And I probably just copied them to make it sound like, you know, talking like, oh, can I have a bit more of my guitar in, in this? But I mean, um, to be fair, it was like, you know, if you're playing at those kinds of venues in Camden, they actually do have some, some decent sort of setups. It's just, if you're the opening band, you're basically. you'll go in doing your sound check and then you just start your set. Yeah. It's that awkward thing where like, you're doing your sound check song and people like, think you've started your set and then they cheer, they clap or cheer at the end of your song. And you're like, no, no, no, no, no. Don't don't clap yet. We that wasn't don't listen to us yet if we haven't started, but yeah. Yeah.

Marc Matthews: 7:05

I bet I'll misplay life for those reasons specific, especially when you're starting out as well. Great fun. Um, How long would you say you've been performing live then? So whe when was that? That you started, I guess you're not performing live at the moment. So how many years in total were you sort of actively performing?

Daniel Hugh: 7:22

Yeah, so that was probably 2006, 2007. Um, so yeah, 15, 15 or so years. And it's been quite a while since I think I did one acoustic gig after I released that acoustic keeping. Yeah, in that very short time where we weren't in lockdown yeah, I think there was about a two month period where they started doing some live gigs again, and then everything shut down again. And I, and, uh, I released my EP, um, just as that was happening and, and did a, did a sort of acoustic set just at a local, um, really good local venue, actually that they're, they, they kind of set up their whole beer garden to be like, A tent with a really decent stage and decent sound set up and they, um, yeah. Um, so it's really a really cool place, but don't love performing acoustic. There's a lot of exposure when you just acoustic guitar.

Marc Matthews: 8:21

I don't ever there cuz I suppose when you're, I, I , this is quite bad now, but when I was, when I was in the band and there was another guitar. I always thought myself it's all right. If I make a mistake, like it can get hidden quite easily. Mm. Um, but when you're playing acoustic, it is very, very, yeah. You are open to everything. Have a little nuance, have a little subtle, um, yeah. Mistake, you know? Yeah,

Daniel Hugh: 8:42

yeah, yeah. There's there's no, there's nowhere to hide. Yeah. A hundred percent an acoustic, acoustic guitar singer songwriter type of thing. You, uh, you you've just gotta, you just gotta kind of it's. It is difficult. Experienced acoustic performers will just say, yeah, I make mistakes and you just, you just roll with it. And as long as you don't look too bothered when you make the mistake, people, people generally don't notice . Yeah, but that's all about kind of, you know, giving into the, the moment and being present and enjoying it rather than analyzing everything that you're doing with every STR of the guitar. And every note that you don't quite hit or. Marc Matthews: I'm I know what I'm like if I was to make it like a real bad era, I would, I would just wanna stop. Um, yeah. Would it be even worse? Yeah, that'd be even worse. Just stopping dead and, oh, I just, I just start, I think I did, there was one gig where I did that and I think it was, I think it was me and I was coming in with, uh, with like a lead guitar part and I just totally messed it up and I just stopped all together. And then the rest of the band is just looking at me. I'm like really sorry, guys. I just really, really, this is really bad. And then, but our drummer sort of saved it. I certainly had performances where it probably would've been better if I'd stopped. I think, yeah, I think there, there was one where we, uh, we went through a kind of series of band me in that first band band members kind of leaving and trying to replace them. And, but we had like gigs lined up and had a friend who played, played bass. And our bass had just, just left by mutual consent and, uh, and, um, tried to get him in. Uh, tried to get a friend in, to play bass short notice, and he played a, played a whole song, one fret down from the from the, to June. So it was, it was just like absolutely horrendous. But, um, we just pretended like, it was supposed to be like that. And hope everybody notices. I can't imagine that nobody noticed that, but, um, but yeah, you know, these things happen.

Marc Matthews: 10:45

Yeah, it's great. What I find is when you get back together with those, with the musicians as well, and you just look back and think, what on earth were we doing then? Like how, what must have people thought when they were watching that? Oh, my days. Yeah. And so with regard to life performance, is there like, um, was, was there sort of an act or an artist that sort of, you took influence from, with your sort of performance? If you have a performance style? I

Daniel Hugh: 11:11

don't think so. I think there were, there were people that I wished I was that I wished I could be like there people who had like such, um, confidence and, or, you know, arrogance and made everybody look at them, uh, and it wouldn't have mattered if they were dreadfully out of tune or not people would've been absolutely. Uh, you know, Just caught up in, in their kind of persona. And, um, my problem was that I was too aware of kind of what was going on in the crowd. So if it was a really good busy room and people get involved, I would perform really well. But if it was really quiet and, and no one was really interested, I would, I would kind of go in on myself a little bit and, and that, and which kind of compounds the issue. almost ensures that no one's really gonna get involved. So, um, I think that there were lots of, uh, there were lots of bands around, uh, around then around like the sort of late NS, like young guns. I don't know if you know, young guns. I, I know of them. Yeah. Yeah. Right. They, they were, I mean, to be fair, I lived in Wickham at the time and they, they were from Wickham. So we used to kind of, um, , you know, drinking the same student bars and, and stuff like that. Yeah. But, um, but they just had such a cool like stage presence. It was, you know, it was just a. Big energy, like hard and heavy. And, and I, I, I was like, I'd love to be like that when, when I'm performing and it wouldn't matter who was in the, in the crowd. Yeah. One man and his dog, and you'd, you'd just like throw yourself about and , but they were really cool, like live and, and just had like a certain energy that they, they kind of brought to that performance.

Marc Matthews: 13:03

Yeah. It's interesting that you mentioned now about performing to like one man and his dog, which I, I know probably not the only musician or artist who, who has performed to a crowd of, of no one. Did you ever experience that performing to an. Yeah, just the sound guy or sound

Daniel Hugh: 13:17

woman. Yeah. Yeah. We did like three hour drives to perform, to like our guitar cases and the found guy, it was, you know, you're like, oh my God, we, yeah. And, and we all had like crap part-time jobs or something that we had to be back to the next day. And it's like, oh God, I'm gonna be so tired in the morning. And it's. Been such a waste of time. Yeah. Yeah. You say, you know, you do gigs that you don't get paid for, for exposure and then you don't even get any exposure cuz there's nobody there. Yeah.

Marc Matthews: 13:45

Um, that

Daniel Hugh: 13:46

argument, yeah. It's uh, it was, uh, you know, you're always kind of holding on for you think this will be the one that we, we drive, you know, X amount of hours and we get back at two o'clock in the morning or three o'clock in the morning. And, but it'll be worth it because, you know, we'll sell some t-shirts and some people will like our music and find us and add our MySpace page or have MySpace or whatever, whatever it was at the time.

Marc Matthews: 14:14

Yeah. I was having this discussion with, uh, with, uh, with someone the other day. I can't remember who it was. It was another podcast episode and we were discussing the. Old things that used to be able to put music on. Did you ever use reverb nation? Yeah. Were you ever of that era? Yeah, I didn't even know if that's still going shower to reverb nation. Um, there was like a monthly chart on it and we were like the number one band in Toton and like a small sound in the Southwest and we were like, oh, this is great. Oh, I

Daniel Hugh: 14:42

dunno. What's happened to it. Yeah. I remember. I remember. I mean, I was, I was big fan of MySpace. I think MySpace did a lot for. Independent musicians and live music. And when MySpace died, it felt like those little gigs that on a Friday night at a local venue that would pull in like 52, a hundred people stopped getting those 52, a hundred people turning up. And those two things, whether it's a direct cause and effect thing, or just a correlation of the two things happening at the same time, but it felt like my, my space and independent live music. Sort of took a real downturn around the same time.

Marc Matthews: 15:23

Yeah. Yeah. I imagine there probably will be some sort of correlation there. Um, yeah, my, I think my space is still going in itself, but as you say is a totally different animal now and I, I wouldn't even know what it's, what it's used for at the moment. I remember there was one band that, um, I obviously the Arctic monkeys are probably one of the most synonymous bands we find in fame on, on my. But there was a, there was a particular metal band and they were assigned to, I think it was ear rake. And I remember when we were, cause I was in a metal band and it was the sort of pathway we all wanted to follow. I cannot, I think it was something like I ignominious incarceration or something like that. It was a really, really random name, but they totally blew up on my space. And it was the one, it was the band that everybody sort of wanted to follow in their footsteps. And then obviously it just went, um, and, and, and downturn from there. Um, so Dave, what I'd like to move on to now. is, uh, is, is, is moving onto the, your current sort of incarnation of, uh, live performance or going to perform live. So what I'd like to, uh, get from you and for our listeners is, is why you've decided to take Daniel hu on the road.

Daniel Hugh: 16:30

Well, it's a, it's a strange one, really, because I think when I started recording solo, I was like, oh, this is great. It's just gonna be a studio project. And I won't have the hassle of live. to deal with or to think about. Um, and especially if I make it, you know, such a big production that it's almost impossible to to, to kind of do as one man. But I also kind of like a, like solving a problem. Uh, I think that's what I'm more interested in than the actual performance is like, well, how would I, how would I do this live? Yeah. Um, and obviously there. Uh, you know, being, being gone on the retro RVA label, um, there's, I wouldn't call it pressure, but Cole always say Cole who's, um, the, the label owner always says, you know, if you do live stuff, it's so much easier to kind of promote your release and it's, you know, it's a great way to generate interest in, in your recorded music. And, and it's, it's a hundred percent. Right. And I know it's right. Yeah. And it's just kind of taken me this long to get round. Trying to put it all together. So I think it, I think the real driver is solving the problem of, of kind of how would I perform this stuff? Um, what would the focus be? Would it be performance? Would it be, you know, uh, um, sort of Sonic accuracy to the actual. Recording or would it be kind of a bit of a variation on, um, on, on what the recording is or some somewhere in between or a combination of all of those things, but, uh, those are the things I'm kind of figuring out and, and tech wise, obviously it's always fun to, to, to have to buy new equipment, to be able to solve these problems. So, you know, Dropping your monthly paycheck on new music gear is, uh, , I'm sure something that lots of people listening to this will, uh, will be familiar with.

Marc Matthews: 18:29

Yeah, definitely. Um, interested at a point you mentioned there, uh, before we move on to like how you're gonna turn it into a live sort of animal is the sort of like the, the representation of your music live, cuz I've had this discussion and I've, I've seen various articles on. Are you of a mindset that you'd like to sort of like perform your music verbatim as it is recorded live? Or are you gonna, or do you think, are you more of, uh, a person who likes to see sort of subtle differences, so, and variations in the live performance compared to the, compared to the recorded version? I

Daniel Hugh: 20:16

think, I think I prefer the form. Not necessarily exactly verbatim. I think as long as you're singing live, you. Add your own kind of feeling to, to it. Um, and I think when I'm watching a band that I like, or an artist that I like perform. So sometimes when you're trying to kind of sing along with one of your favorite songs, it's a bit irritating if they sort of go up and do something a bit different. And not that I'm suggesting that anybody coming to watch me perform will, will necessarily know any of the songs to sing along with. Um, but what I'm trying to find, I guess, is a way to have those options available to either do a kind of, you know, straight down the middle. This is, this is basically how my song sound recorded, but, you know, with the live energy, with the volume, with the, you know, with, you know, me playing live guitar maybe or something or keyboard, so it's, there's an opportunity to kind of. Vary it in those senses. Yeah. But I'd probably be playing to a backing track, um, with, um, you know, the, the, the song kind of there, um, to, to, to guide me. Um, yeah. Which is it doesn't make it impossible using, uh, studio one show page to kind of have variation. And even, even within, even within that backing track, you can kind. Set it up so that you can have some control over when it goes from, say an introduction to a verse or when it goes from a verse into a chorus, or how many times you wanna repeat the chorus or those kinds of things. And, and if, if you, um, if you do the work and watch enough YouTube videos, , you can figure out how to kind of really give yourself loads of flexibility yeah. In how you, in how you perform it. And so that's kind of what I'm working towards at the moment really is kind of figuring out all that stuff. and then it's just the case of rehearsing it enough so that I know which button to press to, to, to make the, these things work the way I want them to. And I'm not gonna sort of catch myself off guard and just end the song. Prematurely after the first verse.

Marc Matthews: 22:39

Yeah. Let's take a quick break from this episode so that I can tell you about a free resource that I made for you. It's a PDF checklist that describes what you need to do properly. Prepare a mix for mastering. So you've done the hard work and you love your mix yet. Suitably preparing a mix for mastering is often overlooked by musicians resulting in delayed session. Excessive back and forth conversation and frustration on both parts. I want to help fix that. So if you want this free resource, just go to www.sy music, mastering.com. As this checklist will help and guide you to make the mastering process as smooth, transparent, and exciting as possible. So again, the URL is www.sy music, mastering.com for this free preparing a mix for mastering checklist. Let's get back to the episode. Go let's uh, let's imagine you're taking, uh, your previous album on the road or let's let's let's maybe one song in particular when it came to you starting to plan this out, what was the first thing you tackled in terms of, right. I need to iron this out first, before I move on to anything else before, was it the case of you needed to do, um, a specific piece of software? A specific controller. Did you have to go in and separate every, I suppose, stems in your, in your mix? What was the very first thing

Daniel Hugh: 23:53

you did? Um, so I think it, I think the first thing is the decision of what you're gonna do live and what you're gonna kind of have on the backing track, because you've gotta then take your mix apart. And obviously lead vocals is, is the obvious thing, but am I gonna play guitar? Am I gonna play. Um, you know, the, um, pads or, or whatever, on, on the keys, I'm gonna try and do both of those things, which is something I'm trying on a couple of songs where I do the guitar solo, but play the pads throughout. And, um, so it's kind of making that decision first. Like, what am I gonna play? And then that informs sort of making the backing track, uh, or, you know, doing the mix of the mix down of the backing track. Um, yeah.

Marc Matthews: 24:43

Yeah. Interesting. So what, what you mentioned in a, in a previous sentence, I think with probably the last question is about how you are you gonna be, you're gonna have your backing track, but are you then gonna be triggering sections as it were, or you just gonna have a backing track, much like, um, you might have, if you're in a band, you might have an orchestral backing track playing throughout a performance that you then perform too, or like you can do with Ableton. Are you gonna be triggering samples to play a particular.

Daniel Hugh: 25:10

Yeah. So that, that is, um, that is a functionality that you can do with studio one. So that's something that prior to this, I haven't used Ableton before. So my use of studio one show page is like the first, my first exposure to that kind of thing, where you. So, yeah, I can. I dunno whether, I dunno how it works on Ableton, but with, with each song on studio one, I can say segment the introduction and then the first verse, or I can do it even smaller section. So I could just have like four beats that I can just run and run and run until I'm ready to hit a button and go onto the next section, if, if, if that's what I wanna do. And so, yeah, so that's, that's something that I'm trying to figure out. I think there's some songs where. That's gonna work and other songs where it probably, if I'm. Keys and guitar all in one song and doing lead vocals, I might be better off just making sure I get to the end of it. yeah. Without, without screwing it up too much.

Marc Matthews: 26:19

Yeah, that sounds tricky. I think one of my questions was gonna be, uh, like what do you perceive for being the most challenging aspect of it, of, of performing live and that does sound quite challenging in itself in particular those songs.

Daniel Hugh: 26:31

Yeah, I think it's, um, I think it's changing be between instruments. I've, you know, I've not been, um, I'm not like an amazing pianist and, and, uh, that's something that I kind of. I get a little bit anxious about the idea of performing with, with keys. I'm much more natural on a guitar, not to say that I'm great on guitar, but it comes a little bit more easily to me than yeah. Um, than, uh, than piano does. So, but I think then going between the two and, and knowing that I'm probably gonna be kind of overthinking it as I do that and, and, and, uh, likely to mess things up. But I think one of the, and it, it kind of. It's one of the really interesting things that I've been considering is am I trying to do too much? Does anyone care if I'm playing guitar live or playing keys live because you get lots of people that they'll just kind of sing along to their backing tracks, their, their actual, their focus is on putting on a good show. It's not on, you know, trying to please the musicians in the crowd who are like, well, he didn't play the guitar alive. It's like, well, you know, It looked like he was having a great time and he basically, yeah. Got the crowd going and that kind of thing. And that's something that I've kind of wondered whether maybe I should simplify rather than try to try to add in more and more complexity and just be a guy kind of doing a weird project on the stage while everyone's like, what, what the hell's going on. And I'm focusing so much on trying to get things right on the stage that actually nobody has a good time. Yeah. So I think that's one of the, one of the, the kind of questions that goes around and around in my head at the moment is actually, should I play less and perform more, you know? Yeah.

Marc Matthews: 28:26

Once again, interesting point there. And I think it's, um, it kind of resonates with, uh, with gas and to honey in honey beard. Uh, when I interviewed them, I can't what episode it is now, um, for the audience listening, you can go find that out in the, in the feed. Um, but they, they mentioned a similar thing whereby I think they started out and they were taking drum kits and everything with them and they had this huge setup. Yeah. And then now they've condensed it right down. Um, cuz I guess, I guess it's similar to what you were saying there is that they were going in thinking they needed to do X, Y, Z. And actually you probably need to do a lot less, but better in a way, I guess you would say. Yeah. Um, and

Daniel Hugh: 29:03

I think, uh, Alex, uh, Viti, uh, I hope I've pronounced Alex's name. Um, he does, he does. He's, I've had conversations with him where, you know, I've been talking about all this stuff, cuz I get excited about buying all the tech and bill, you know, I'm almost like building the problem to solve and he's like, just get an iPad and plug your guitar in and you'll be, you know, and that's what he does. And he puts on a really great show and he plays his lead guitar because he's, you know, he's much better on guitar than I am. Um, and he, you know, he has a good time performing his songs and people get into it. And that's probably something that I will, I'll probably kind of take a bit of a mix and match approach because I do want to kind of challenge myself and. You know, the, the songs where maybe I am doing a bit more. And, um, but maybe there are opportunities where there's sort of a high energy song that actually it should be about the energy of the song at that coming across to the crowd, rather than me looking like I'm just concentrating on my guitar and getting my keyboard playing right. And stuff like that because no, you know, no one feeds off a guy staring at the keys while trying to swing into a microphone. It, you know, it's it's it's uh, yeah. It's, it's an interesting

Marc Matthews: 30:48

one. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And, um, my next sort of point or question rather was gonna be. Uh, having performed you, you say you've performed in bands previously, and obviously you're taking a more it's I guess you'd call it more of an electronic sort of outfit in terms of performance. Do you think there's a different expectation from an audience perspective in terms of what they're, what they want, what they're expecting to see, because you do see headline acts and for all intents and purposes, they're stood behind Alin. On a plinth with, with a laptop and a few controllers, you know, do you think there's a different expectation from what, with the audience in terms of what they wanna see?

Daniel Hugh: 31:25

Yeah, I'm not sure because I think it, I think if you go to these gigs where it's like, you know, the sort of retro wavy stuff, you're probably getting quite a knowledgeable crowd. Mm-hmm, certainly at the sort of independent level, um, where people are kind. Probably likely to be producers as well. And they're, they're sort of listening on a, a Moreal critical level and critical level. So I think it's, once you get, there's a difference between kind of those gigs and if you are like the opening act for like a really decent band who are gonna draw in a big crowd of people that potentially aren't. Since the wave conno serves, they're just people who are fans of, you know, whatever artist it is. And, um, but yeah, I mean, I was watching, I just saw some clips of it. Is it, is it Ollie ride? Oh yeah. Uh, performing live and you know, he's a great, he's a great producer and singer and. Um, and his live show is, is him singing to a backing track as far as I can tell, but like really putting on a show and getting the crowd involved. And he's, you know, he's got a great voice. That's his, that's his kind of selling. He's great. That's his, yeah. His biggest selling point is his voice and his energy on stage. So he's leaning into that and not over complicating it. or he might have a backing band for all. I might have just seen a clip of just the front of the stage or something, and there might have been a band behind doing it live. But, um, but yeah, I, I, I was just kind of like, oh, that's interesting. Like, I, some of my songs that are a bit lower energy, I was like, okay, maybe some of the lower energy songs I could do a bit more, you know, musical instrument stuff, higher energy ones, you do a bit less music, musical instrument stuff, and do a bit more kind of getting the crowd going. Yeah.

Marc Matthews: 33:27

So I guess it depends on which, like say which song you are performing then really? Yeah. Um, yeah, it's a lot to think about isn't that it's, it's totally different to, I say totally different. It's different to, they're performing in a band whereby I dunno, you've got four or five of you. You've got your instruments and you sort of rock, rock up a play for the audience. Listen, there is more to it than just that when you, when you are performing. Um, but yeah, it's cuz it's a lot to think about. And the reason why I kind of wanted to get you on today to, to chat about it is cuz it's something I've been toying with as. Um, but a, I, I just haven't had the time to look into it. And, um, and B um, by the sounds of things, you're a lot more clued up on it than I am, but it, it, it's, it's certainly something that I'm seeing as being more popular. Um, and in conversations online and with various artists, producers, and whatnot, and wanting to take their, their outfits on the road with regards to your rig itself, what sort of equipment will you be having in your sort of live setup? What equipment you envision is having. So there's obviously

Daniel Hugh: 34:27

the laptop to use, to use the, the door. Um, and then I built a, kind of a, it's a six unit rack with, uh, so the, the main sort of functional stuff is having an audio interface interface, um, to interact with the door, uh, di box for guitar, um, and, uh, channel strip. for just some, you know, vocal processing, um, prior to, prior to going into the door, which is a strange one. Cause I think in a lot of venues, you probably just like plug vocals into the PA, but because I've got sections of songs where it goes, say, , you know, I've, I've got like a low pass and a high pass filter and a loaded distortion on the vocals to, to kind of, you know, fuck it up for the verse so that when it click the core. So I want to kind of be in control of those things. Um, I'm not sure how that'll interact with the kind of PA I guess I'd just have to tell the sound guy that. He can manage the overall volume, but that's about it. yeah. Yeah. Well, like he can EQ the signal that comes, that comes to the desk. But, um, so that's, yeah, that's, that's quite an interesting thing that that will be, um, you'll be fun to kind of have that conversation with, uh, with, with sound guys that are really picky about yeah. About how they manage things. Um, and we'll see, we'll see whether there's any flexibility in that at.

Marc Matthews: 36:01

So, are you gonna from your, from your live reg dinner, are you gonna have, um, individual channels and then rooting those channels to effectively to the sound desk? Um, to the, to the live sound desk? So I dunno, you'd vocals guitars, drums, each individual channel go into the sound desk. Is that the way you see it happening

Daniel Hugh: 36:21

at the moment? No. At the moment, I've kind of seen it as like just the. the output from the, the, uh, audio interface will go to the, to the sound desk. Mm-hmm um, yeah, I mean, I've, I guess I've got the option of, with the di of kind of using the through and going to an amp as well, but I, that seems a little bit excessive and also I've already got all of my guitar modeling going on in. Door. So then I'd have to try and match that somehow through, um, through a guitar a, so it kind of in my head I've, I've probably made it more complicated than it needs to be, but then I could make it even more complicated and, um, and yeah, it is. It's, it's gonna be, it's gonna be interesting when it comes to, to actually performing, um, and whether the sound guys say, oh fine, I'll just take the next half an hour. As a break not worrying about, but that's what I was

Marc Matthews: 37:22

thinking. Yeah.

Daniel Hugh: 37:23

Yeah. Because yeah, I guess I could do with the number of outputs on the interface. I could probably do my own stage monitoring as well. So, um, yeah. And I've got, you've got a headphone amp as well in that, in that rack as well. So I'm sort of managing my own sort of inner mix. Okay. Yeah. Um, so I haven't got a wireless thing at the moment. So that might be another thing for the next payday. But, um, but yeah, they're hard to get, they're hard to find kind of on eBay or anything. They're they're I think when people get good ones, they generally tend to hold onto 'em so, oh, well a wireless kit. Yeah. Yeah.

Marc Matthews: 38:05

Yeah. I remember when I was looking for a wireless wireless guitar and I never really, I, I don't think I ever found one. I particularly liked, I went through a short, I think I had a short, I can't remember what it was. I had a line six wireless as one at one point as well. Um, I sacked it up in the end. Just went back to having, having wired, but I suppose, going back to what you said there about, like, if you were just having your stereo out, going to the desk, it does make the, the sound engineer's life a bit easier. And I suppose it also means that there's less chance of them. Sort of fucking up what you've created for one of a better way of putting it. Um, the, the, you retain all that creative control and all, they they've basically just got two fades left and right. Which are they just gonna push up to yeah. To, um, to go out over the PA.

Daniel Hugh: 38:48

Yeah. It means that I've gotta get my back in track kind of mix. Right. Um, yeah, because that's the other thing is obviously that, um, say take the last. EP, for example, what, like somebody else mastered it for me. So I've then got to kind of, um, you know, get my base levels. Right. And, you know, get all the, um, so yeah, so I've gotta do my backing tracks and then master them and, and really get that kind of at the level that I want it to be at and not just assume. You know, an EQ on a desk can fix fix something. That's, that's kind of really badly, um, you know, badly mixed. Yeah.

Marc Matthews: 39:38

Yeah, no, no, I can imagine now, now, now you point all these things out. I'm thinking actually there, there is a lot to consider. We're taking these things on the, and they're like hats off to, to any artist who is a solo artist and then performs their stuff, their music live and has to juggle all these different intricacies. Yeah. Um, but I suppose the more you do it, you, you can refine it and, and hone and hone your skills and your talents. And

Daniel Hugh: 40:03

I think once you've got it, once you've got it set up and you, so my, my issue at the moment is that the, the life I'm building features probably. I'm just focusing on kind of six songs and it's like three songs from a new album and three songs from the previous EP. But because it's got songs from my new album, the mixes keep kind of slightly changing and I keep, you know, you know, when you're in that process of kind of month or two before release and, and you think you've got everything finished. So I, you know, I make a backing track and then I bounce it and then I master it and. I come back and change the actual track, and then I've gotta, like do it all over again. And I should probably just kind of sit tight until I'm absolutely sure that the, the tracks are the ones that are gonna be released, but, um, yeah. Yeah, it makes it a bit kind of having that going on at the same time. Uh, it's difficult, you know, you're just excited. You wanna kind of get on and play with this stuff, but at the same time, you're probably just wasting a load of.

Marc Matthews: 41:05

Yeah. Yeah, I do that all the time to be fair, going back and forth with mixes, even, even before I've even thought about taking anything on the road live I've, I'm continuously going back and forth. And, um, that's kind of a nice segue really to, to the next sort of topic, which is your new album. Uh, so you mentioned there you're gonna be taking three tracks on the road. So I've seen you online. You've, uh, you've rebranded as well. Um, What, what was the idea behind the rebrand before we move onto the album? Uh,

Daniel Hugh: 41:32

there was a couple of things. Uh, one was the my sort of fir previous logo was something that I made myself using gimp, uh, which is a free kind of, um, It's like a freeware version of Photoshop, which is actually like, very, very cool. If you, if you actually know what you're doing with a graphic design and it can do most of what Photoshop can do, but for free, but I'm not a graphic designer. So I made something that was kind of passable. I wanted it to be a bit synth, wavy a bit like neon, neon ish and yeah. Um, and then I think when I started writing new stuff, It felt a bit more, kind of more synth pop than synth wave, not to want to get into like splitting hairs over genre titles or anything, but it, it, it doesn't necessarily fit into that sort of synth wavy, like neon, you know, the future, that futuristic future that you mean or whatever. It's actually more like eighties revival. Well, at least in a lot of ways, I think it does have crossover into some of that stuff. But, um, but I, I see it more as like eighties revival, synth pop than, yeah. Than that kind of synth wave, um, traditional sort of cyber Bunky approach. So, yeah. So I kind of wanted a bit more of. um, a reflection of that like synth poppy style rather than synth wavy. Um, and also just getting somebody else to do it, to make it actually look decent. rather than my crappy graphic design skills, which, uh, um, yeah, I've been kind of looking at all the time and thinking Christ, I need a new logo that actually makes me look good when, you know, it's that first impression thing ISN. You don't get a second chance at it. And if, if you've got like ship branding, then it's, it's shame, but there's a chance that people are gonna not even give your music a chance if you are, if your logos not very good. So that was kind of what I was thinking.

Marc Matthews: 43:46

Yeah. I know exactly what you mean when it comes to sort of outsourcing. I've done that recently and thankfully on, on the label, um, there's like somebody who can do everything. So there's, um, The names now, isn't it. Marlon are for artwork. Yeah, really, really good. Uh, I hope I pronounced that correctly. Uh, did a lyric video for me as well recently. Um, cause I, yeah, much like yourself. I was just kind, I was doing it and, and I was just saying, you know what I mean, the, the hours and the time I'm putting into this and it's kind of like less than satisfactory, I could just get somebody else who knows what they're doing. Yeah.

Daniel Hugh: 44:23

Um, yeah, yeah. A hundred percent. And I think it, it is like, if you, if you know, you've. sort of pot of money that you're willing to throw at a project is, you know, it's just making the decisions on, on kind of where do I wanna spend the money? Where do I wanna try and do things myself? And, um, yeah, I think kind of graphic design and that kind of thing is definitely one of those places where people can tell when, when someone who knows what they're doing has done it. And, um, even if they don't consciously think of it that way, it's just. It's just really obvious. It's like a bad drummer in a band. Isn't it? Like, even if you're not musical it's so you pick it out, you can. Yeah. Yeah. You just know something's not right.

Marc Matthews: 45:07

And, uh, I think as, also as well, uh, for all, for all, for how good Canva is, there's only a certain amount of time that I could spend on Canva. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean,

Daniel Hugh: 45:16

it is amazing that some of the stuff that, that I've managed to do on there where I thought I'm probably gonna have to spend money on this, but I'll just see if I can play around and make something happen. And, um, And yeah, like it, I do love Canva and I can lose hours and hours and days just to kind of playing around on it. But I think Canva's great for just like generating some social media content and getting some, getting some things, kind of looking, you know, semi semi-decent and passable on, on social media. But, um, yeah, like it's, it is not. The same as paying someone who knows really how to, to use Photoshop and, um, and, and just has like an artistic eye. I think that's the other thing is like, I can try on Canver and I can sometimes make stuff that's good. But to have someone that's actually an artist come up with an idea and, or like interpret your, interpret your words into something. I just think that's something totally different.

Marc Matthews: 46:18

Yeah. Uh, I totally agree. I totally agree. Um, and it, it comes down to how much you value your time as well, I think, cause it ultimately, yeah, it costs you money, but yeah, it is time and I'd rather dedicate that time. I dunno about you like to doing something I'm actually good at, which is probably like music . Yeah. Rather than, um, rather than, uh, I suppose I could dedicate time to, to get into graphic design, but I dunno, that's just a rabbit hole. I don't wanna go down, you know? Yeah.

Daniel Hugh: 46:45

You do end up spending hours, like watching stuff on YouTube and then being. Uh, yeah, I think I've just confirmed that I can't do this.

Marc Matthews: 46:54

yeah, totally. So moving on to the new album then, uh, can you tell our audience a bit about, so you mentioned just then that you're sort of moving in, it's a bit more sort of synth pop sort of retracing, the eight steps from the eighties, music from the eighties. What, what kinda audience sort of expect? How many tracks have you got a title for it yet?

Daniel Hugh: 47:12

Yeah. Yeah. You can have a, you can have an exclusive of the, oh, there we go. If you want. So, so the album's gonna be called now or never. Um, and uh, it's gonna be coming out on may the sixth, uh, which is, uh, sort of terrifyingly close. Actually, when I think about it, it's only a couple of months away. Yeah. Um, got single coming out on. March the 18th, which is even even closer. Um, we, which is a collaboration with Emily Zuzu from WOS. Ah, brilliant. Which, yeah, which is really cool. And, um, yeah, we're both kind of really excited and it's kind of been in the pipeline for quite a long time and it's just kind of, um, you know, You just gotta kind of be patient with these things really don't you? Yeah. Yeah. Wait for your release slot and, and stuff. So, yeah. So it's nine tracks the album all together. Uh, it was a bit of a weird one actually, cuz it was gonna be an EP. I'd got six tracks written and then in one weekend I wrote two songs. Um, that I was just kind of so excited about that. I just said to Cole, I was, I was like, I think I'm just gonna have to push back the release because I just need these. Songs to be on there. So then it was gonna be eight tracks. Um, And then, and then I just decided to do kind of a little sort of instrumental outro for the, for the album, just to, just to make it up to kind of about half an hour of music so that we could do take cassette, like, um, nice, like a physical release, um, just cuz I knew I had that kind of. Little sort of amount of time that that would be empty, empty tape, just rolling over at the end. So I was like, I'll do an, I'll do a little, little outro, but yeah, it's um, it's just about there. Um, and ready to go now. So it's, it's exciting. Oh,

Marc Matthews: 49:13

that sounds brilliant. And, um, Emily's great. Uh, I love waves. I think they're fantastic stuff. They brought out. So IM looking forward to hearing that's just

Daniel Hugh: 49:20

so, I mean, she, she could just do anything with her voice, cause I don't know. Have you heard her sort of, um, what you call it? Like Americana, like rock? No, she's done like really awesome. And it's quite rare. I think that you get vocalists that can just turn their hand to, or turn their voice, I guess, to any genre and make it sound. totally natural without changing the way that they sing. Mm-hmm um, I think that's impressive. Lots of people would like go to a different genre and almost change the, the style that they, they sing. I know, I know I have probably really going from rock to sort of pop and sense stuff. I think I've, I've sort of changed the way that I approach vocals. Um, but she's just, she's. Unbelievable. And she, she wrote the lyrics to that song. Um, so it was a song that I'd kind of produced and I'd had sit there for a while and I couldn't figure out any vocals to it. And I actually asked her to sing vocals on another track, um, that I'd written and I'd written all the, all the lyrics for and stuff, and she wasn't that interested in it. Um, but she said if I had any others that, um, send it over and I was like, well, actually I'll just send her this one, cuz I've been sitting on it for ages and she immediately just. You know, or something clicked with it and she could hear kind of the melody and stuff straight away. And, um, yeah, so she came, came up with all the vocals and, um, and yeah, it just, you know, nothing that, like, I wouldn't have come up with anything like what she came up with, which I think is the really cool thing about, you know, collaborating with people. You, you just, if you sent that track to six different people, you'd probably get six, totally different approaches to it. But yeah, it's gonna be really cool. I think people are gonna really like it.

Marc Matthews: 51:08

That sounds amazing. I'm I'm looking forward to hearing that and, and the new material and I totally sort of echo what you say there. It is. It is amazing. Isn't it? When you, you have like an instrumental and then you send it off to someone. Cause I that's, the way I do things is so I'm not the great lyricist I can write lyrics for metal. Yeah. Or writing, writing lyrics for pop. I struggle. Um, if it's about like wizards and warlocks and stuff, stuff like that in Messel I'm all over it. Or like hammer horror. But when it comes to, uh, synth pop, I'm kind of like, nah, I should probably get someone in much like the graphic design. I should probably get someone in who's much better, better at writing this than me. And then when the, when you get that come back and you're like, and it just totally like breathes new life into your music. Yeah. I think it's, it's a great feeling. When you, when you hear that back, I love it. Have you, have you

Daniel Hugh: 51:53

collaborated with, um, people where they've sent you stuff to kind of add to, or,

Marc Matthews: 51:59

or is it what I haven't yet? I haven't yet. I I'm a sinner for, um, not following these things up and it's like, it's a kind of bad trait of mine. So I've, I've got this,

Daniel Hugh: 52:11

this sort of frustration that I think I write. Deliver better vocals. When someone asks me to sing on their stuff than I do for my own, like re I've done a, a few collaborations recently stuff. None of it's been released yet. Um, but it's probably some of the best stuff that I've actually done. And I'm like, do I need to go back and re rerecord all of my album because yeah, I've just, there's something about kind of someone asking you to do something. And I think that for me, Makes me kind of push myself to a, a bit of a better, a higher standard. Yeah. Um, yeah. So, well, I hope they, I hope the people that I've collaborated with think that as well, but, um, yeah,

Marc Matthews: 52:57

like it to me, I know what you mean. I've um, I've had commissions whereby like someone's asked me to sort of co-produce and I've gone in, and I've added little flourishes here and there, um, to tracks. I know what you mean. I, I, I, I think I had this discussion once again with someone, I think it might have been Lewis. I've max though, a few weeks back whereby if you, if you've got time constraints or a deadline, I find that when I've got that hanging over me, I'm much more finite. I'm much more focused. And I find that whatever I, whatever I do sound, not that it sounds better, but it just get that, get to the end, the end line, the finishing line quicker. Then I would otherwise cuz when it's my own music. Oh man. I'm, I'm terrible for dragging it out. I wonder whether

Daniel Hugh: 53:40

when it's somebody else's song, whether it's easier to make decisions. I wonder whether I think it is sometimes you're a bit like you're a bit more objective. You're a bit like, no, that sounds good. That sounds crap. I'm gonna do this and this and, and that, that's my kind of decision. Whereas with my stuff, I kind of agonize over one line for like a day.

Marc Matthews: 53:59

Yeah. Yeah. I think you're right. I think that's what it is. Cuz. Because specifically, if they've sent you parts already and I'm listening to it, I'm like, well, that's that that's, that that's that they don't want me to touch that. So I'm now just gonna go in and add this where if it's my own, I'll be like, oh, I'll put that in. But that means I'll go and change that. It's like I was, I was working on a track on Friday and the opening of the track is a, is a load of Foley sounds and someone getting in a car and some music playing and stuff. And I probably spent two hours just finding like the perfect car openings out of a door. Um, and then the closing of a door and then a static radio, uh, someone tuning a radio. Um, whereas I think if somebody commissioned me to do it, I probably would've just done it or, or asked me to collaborate with them rather. I probably would've done it just a lot quicker. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's right. I think you're on to, I, I think you're onto something there and I think it's right. Maybe I need to change. We need to change our mindsets and just have that fictitious deadline.

Daniel Hugh: 54:51

Yeah. Um, yeah, some sometimes that's really good just to say, look, this song's gonna be done by the end of the week like that. And then, and then yeah.

Marc Matthews: 55:01

so, um, about time to, to, to wrap this up now down. So a big, thank you again. So where, where can our, um, audience find you online?

Daniel Hugh: 55:10

So, uh, I think, and I hope all of my social media tags are at Daniel hue music. So I am on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, uh, I. Got a TikTok account last week. So I did see, I got a couple of followers, but I could do with some, uh, I could do with some help on there. I mean, no idea what I'm doing, really. It just seems to be videos of people doing dance routines mostly, but. Um, but I'm trying to figure, I'm trying to figure that whole world out. And, um, yeah. So all the usual places and band camp, obviously, um, where we sell our, we sell our lovely music is Daniel hugh.band camp.com. Um, and then obviously just search me on, on Spotify and all the other standard streaming and download places and, and, uh, hopefully. Come across my stuff. Brilliant.

Marc Matthews: 56:06

Um, what I'll do is I'll, I'll pull all those links in the, in the show notes as well for the audience who go in and check out, um, that, and, um, Yeah. Any, any help on TikTok? Uh, please do do follow down. I've I've made that a jump in as well, probably like two or three weeks before you. And it is, yeah, I don't really know what I'm doing either. I just post videos and

Daniel Hugh: 56:24

see what happens. I think you, I think you're getting it right. Like it's just kind of regular and very concise stuff that people are actually gonna be interested. And I haven't quite figured out what I've got to show people that they'll actually be interested in. So I, I think there's a vital piece of the puzzle there that I yeah. That I need to

Marc Matthews: 56:42

figure out and it's trends as well. I I'm led to believe that you've gotta jump on trends and I look at the trends I'm like, well, that none of that is applicable to what I'm doing. Some, I dunno.

Daniel Hugh: 56:52

I think it's a whole, as soon as I hear the word trends, I just, I just. It's just a bunch of twats I just I'm so contrary. Like even if it was something I was really interested in, I'd had have to decide that I didn't like it anymore. I need to, I need to stamp down that part of my personality and just jump on board bandwagon and, and really sort of milk it. Dry.

Marc Matthews: 57:16

I love that. Oh, Dan. Uh, yeah. Again, a massive, thanks for joining me on this again today and, um, good luck with the, with the album release and the single release. I'll be sure to, to share it as I were, as in when I can as well. And, um, Yeah. We'll, we'll put links to, to all your using stuff in the, in the show notes and, um, lovely. Yeah. Enjoy the rest of your evening, mate. And it's uh, it's good catching up with you. I'll speak to you soon. Yeah. Thanks very much for having

Daniel Hugh: 57:38

me cheer mate.

Marc Matthews: 57:39

Yeah. Cheer mate. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the inside the mix podcast. Make sure to rate us everywhere you listen, list the podcasts, including Spotify.