#124: How to Go Viral on TikTok with Sunglasses Kid

Have you ever found yourself wondering how to go viral on TikTok? Maybe you want to go viral on Instagram, or even just make a viral video. Then check out EP 124 of the Inside The Mix podcast.

Ever wondered what it's like to wake up one day as an internet sensation? Sunglasses Kid joins us to peel back the curtain on the dazzling, yet daunting world of 'going viral overnight.' Discover the transformative journey of navigating social media's treacherous tides, from the thrill of explosive growth to the gritty reality of maintaining the momentum. This episode promises a rare glimpse into the heart of the music industry's digital frontier, where the beats are hot, but the competition is hotter.

Unlock the secrets behind creating viral content that resonates with a generation yearning for cinematic nostalgia as we chat about evolving our strategy to captivate audiences on TikTok. We'll share the paradox of repetition in creative storytelling and explore how the right note can tap into shared imaginations and strike chords with filmmakers. Diving into our personal experiences, we discuss how the iconic flair of vintage sunglasses and the allure of a classic watch became unexpected symbols of identity that resonated with our community.

Strap in for a candid reflection on the highs and lows of music production fame. From the rush of securing that first big impression to the sobering realities of dealing with industry pressure, this episode maps out the emotional rollercoaster that comes with a public platform. We're not just chasing the spotlight; we're chasing the dream of creative fulfilment, aiming to thrive behind the scenes and make our mark on the ever-evolving canvas of sound. Tune in for an episode that's as much about the beat as it is about the journey behind it.

Click here to follow Sunglasses Kid: https://www.sunglasseskid.co.uk/

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

You're listening to the Inside the Mix podcast with your host, mark Matthews.

Speaker 2: 0:06

Hello and welcome to the Inside the Mix podcast. I'm Mark Matthews, your host, musician, producer and mix and mastering engineer. You've come to the right place if you want to know more about your favourite synth music artists, music engineering and production, songwriting and the music industry. I've been writing, producing, mixing and mastering music for over 15 years and I want to share what I've learnt with you. Hello, folks, and welcome back to the Inside the Mix podcast. As always, if you are a returning listener, a big welcome back and a belated Happy New Year as well. I think at the point of this episode going live, it now has been well, we're over a week into 2024. And if you are a new listener, a big welcome. Make sure you hit that follow button on your podcast player of choice. And if you're watching or listening to this podcast on YouTube, make sure you hit subscribe so you're notified whenever there's new content on my YouTube channel.

Speaker 2: 1:01

So at the beginning of every year, I always do a sort of yearly forecast and put plans in place of how I want to grow the podcast and also how I want to grow my other business as well synth music mastering. So I've got some exciting stuff planned and you'll see that rolled out over the next 12 months. But I find it really useful just to look back at the previous year and just analyse what went well, what didn't go well, opportunities taken, opportunities missed, and just how I can take that forward into the new year. So I'll let you in on the big goal for the podcast. I want to get this podcast inside the mix, into the top 10% of all podcasts, and I think I've read a statistic that there's about four and a half million podcasts. So that will be quite a feat and at the moment it's in the top 25%. To get it in that top 10% I need over 400 downloads of a new episode within the first seven days and at the point of this episode going live we're sat around 300. But I think it's an average of 12 months. So it was slightly less at the end of 2023 because there was growth throughout 2023. So by the end of the year I want to get, on average, over 400 downloads for a new episode in the first seven days.

Speaker 2: 2:16

So help me, folks, anywhere you can share the podcast, leave comments, tell your friends, tell your neighbours, tell your family, tell everyone and help me get to that top 10%. So I should have probably said the reason I want to get into the top 10% is not so I can make money off sponsorships and adverts and all that rubbish. It's purely because getting in that top 10% would put them push me out to a wider audience on these podcast platforms and just help more people, because that is the goal of this podcast. It's not to make money from advertising and sponsorships, it's to help more independent artists and producers, just to better their production game and also bring on more guests and do other bits and pieces as well, because I love networking with you guys, the audience and these audio engineers and producers and artists from around the world. And it's been an amazing two and a half years and long may it continue. So that is the goal. That's why I want to get in that top 10%. It's just to help more people. So, as I mentioned just now, just anywhere you can help, it would be greatly appreciated, folks. Anyway, I've waffled on for long enough, so let's get into this episode 124. And in this episode I invite back or I invited back sunglasses kid.

Speaker 2: 3:22

Now, sunglasses kid appeared on episode 46. All those episodes ago, and this was before he struck viral gold on TikTok and Instagram with the classic point of view content. So I go into more detail in terms of where sunglasses kid was at an episode 46 in this conversation in this episode. But the idea was just to look back and analyze the 12 months in between and that viral success. So we discussed going viral overnight and sunglasses kids response to that, opportunities and successes as a result of this virality and also interactions with countless numbers of incredible producers and artists as well. And also it's important that we chatted about challenges and the negative side of going viral as well and what that then brings to you as an artist. We also look back at the previous 12 months and I asked the question what advice would you give yourself 12 months ago in response to what you've had happen over the last 12 months? I hope that makes sense. And then we also dive into future plans for sunglasses kid. So it's a really exciting episode. I do mention it in the chat that we have that at the time of episode 46 going live, sunglasses kid had just joined TikTok and had about 5000 followers. So it's really interesting 12 months later to see the change in landscape.

Speaker 2: 4:52

So, without further ado, let's dive into this episode. So in this episode. I am very excited today to welcome a returning guest. We've got sunglasses kid back. So if you are a regular listener of the podcast, you would have listened to our first chat way back in episode 46. And this is now episode 120 something, if I'm not mistaken. I can tell you which number it is, anyway, but it was episode 46. And we were chatting about all bits and pieces which I'm going to go through in a minute. So since then, if you're familiar with sunglasses kids, you will know that in the last year it's been quite an eventful year for him, in particular, on social media. You would have seen it grow exponentially. So today we're just going to catch up on what's happened in the last 12 months. Welcome back, buddy. How are you? How are things?

Speaker 1: 5:42

I'm good. Yeah, yeah they're. Um, things are in a kind of weird place. It's in a place of sort of everything's happened and nothing's happened, and some things have happened and some things like almost happen. I'd love to say my life is completely changed, but it hasn't. It's kind of the conversations I'm having have completely changed, but my current situation is not particularly different from it was last year.

Speaker 2: 6:10

But it isn't. It isn't.

Speaker 1: 6:11

It's hard to explain really.

Speaker 2: 6:13

Yeah, I appreciate that. I know there's some stuff going on in the background that you can't explicitly mention, but I can imagine it's very exciting stuff. So before we dive into like chatting, as it were, I'm just going to recap the audience If they haven't listened to our first episode, our first chat back in episode 46. So I'm just going to pick some bits out that, because I listened to that episode back just now and there's some really interesting stuff in there. So you mentioned about the 30 year cycle in a decade of interest and we're entering the nineties, which kind of leads on nicely to the next part. And you also mentioned about how you were fed up of dark cinematic music and you were inspired by Mitch Murdoch and he is sort of approached with a fun and silly but well executed strategy, which also feeds into the narrative of what we got with this episode today.

Speaker 2: 6:55

But importantly now this is the important part when, when we first spoke, we meant I mentioned this off air as well you were just joined, joined rather tick tock and you were two weeks into your tick tock adventure. So this was September 2022. And you mentioned that you had 200 followers, which then jumped to 5000 off the back of a video of you just jamming on the piano and that had got 100,000 views. So this is kind of like the seeds of this legendary sort of point of view content that you've now got going on. So I think it'd be quite cool just to maybe dive into that bit. So for our audience, who aren't familiar with this concept, maybe not seen it before, can you share what basically changed in your social media strategy to achieve this incredible success that you've seen over the last 12 months?

Speaker 1: 7:42

Well, I don't know if it's incredible success, but I suppose it's yeah. So, yeah, I suppose like I can't remember why it was the video that I posted when we were, when I just joined tick tock, but I don't think it was that, but I'd been experimenting with. I like spent a long time before joining tick tock like watching what was doing well on tick tock and kind of going it's really like a people driven platform, and what I had been doing on Instagram to date before joining tick tock was sharing like clips of movies, photographs, I think. Also there was there was a lot of denial going on and Instagram about the fact that Instagram was was moving towards a video first platform as well. So I was like, if I joined tick tock, I got to do it, I've got to play the game. Like don't, if you don't want to play the game, then don't join tick tock. And I was like, well, the only game in town is is being on camera and it's. I've got to do something on camera and I don't quite know what that is.

Speaker 1: 8:43

But I, what I don't want to do is start spending my life making videos to tick tock instead of making music. So whatever I do needs to be like a sustainable thing. That's not. That's not like going to take loads of effort, because what I don't want to do is like make a really high effort, high energy, intense video that then goes viral. And then I was like you got to prepare for success as much as you plan, for you know people will often plan for failure or nothing will happen. But you make, you know you put loads of effort into making a video and then you go viral. The audience would then expect people would then expect you to make another one of those. And then the next thing, you know you've committed to making these really like hardcore videos. So so I was like it's got to be something sustainable, not too difficult, but low effort, that I can keep doing again and again and again, Because what I was seeing in TikTok was the.

Speaker 1: 9:36

This formula for success was kind of repetition, which feels very counterintuitive to people who are like creative, who are thinking the formula is should be being original, every time doing something different, and actually you can see on the content on social media, on social media that performs well. There's actually repetition, is like one of the kind of keys to it, and I've been watching this woman she called her name. Now I think Christina. Something will come to me in a moment. She's a female comedian in America who was doing these skits on Instagram on a green screen where she would, she would sort of recreate different retro sort of scenes. She was playing around with all kinds of areas 90s, 2000s and she would play lots of multiple roles. So she had ways of doing on a green screen where she'd have conversations with herself and she would have these captions that would be like POV it's 1999 and you're on your first day in high school. The mean girls arrive and she play out the skit.

Speaker 2: 10:40

I can see it.

Speaker 1: 10:41

And she had like 150,000 followers and huge engagement and I was watching this going. This is like. This is like an audience that should be interested in like nostalgia and music and should be interested in like 80s and synthwave. And yet all the engagement happening on my platform is like other musicians giving their feedback on like my music and the conversations people go who would try a different snare? And it occurred to me that, like a lot of musicians, like social media content, at least last year, is inviting a conversation about the process. Right, you're like this is my new synth, this is what VSTs are using and and outside of like a musical, like audience the average person isn't interested like in the sense or doesn't know what VST is. Sorry, because you're, we're all living in our little bubble and so I spent a long time sort of watching those going.

Speaker 1: 11:43

Is there a way for this idea to map on to like a musical setting? So I don't claim that it's an entirely original idea, but it was the I suppose it was an original framing of it and going how could this work in a musical setting? And then it just it seemed to just capture people's imagination and I was kind of a B test. I was testing quite a lot going is the caption actually doing anything? Is that really the thing? And people would start interacting with it in the comments and then start respectively, like script writing. So I'd write, you know, like POV is 1985 and you're undercover in Miami or something, and people would start giving their pennies worth and I realized this is brilliant.

Speaker 1: 12:26

It's working on a number of levels because you've got people are listening to the music which is playing around in the background Whilst they're all reading the comments, playing 80s tropes. There is inviting people as well to kind of engage, not in the process, but to engage in what the music makes you feel. So it's inviting. It's inviting the audience into your imagination, and it was also telling the story of my love of cinema, which I've always had. So it felt like suddenly the perfect frame in which to present the music.

Speaker 1: 13:02

And then also, another byproduct of it has been that I've had lots of filmmakers reaching out to me because it's speaking their language as well. Which is this kind of picture, this scene, imagine this thing. So it's also sort of demonstrating an ability to underscore a scene or a concept. So I mean, if you are, if you are doing that, because I've seen other people doing variations of what I do, but the music isn't particularly, maybe not always, exactly, underscoring what the scene is that they've described. If you say I mean so, maybe that's where my initializing my ability to write something that sounds, I mean, I suppose I'm tapping into film school kind of territory and I was just thinking about what you said about moving away from dark cinematic and ironically I've started moving sort of back towards it a little bit. Well, certainly it's a bit darker for darker, for me anyway.

Speaker 2: 14:03

What you mentioned there about the music suiting the. The situation is key, because yours does, and there's no getting away from that, and I have seen others doing it, and then you can. You can see where the differentiation is there in terms of somebody who's just trying to put up a POV post and and trying to do something similar, and it does capture the imagination, like it's featured on on radio too. So for the audience listening abroad, we've got the BBC radio, which is probably known worldwide anyway, but it was featured by Scott Mills, wasn't it on radio too, and he featured it, and it's also featured on the Chicago News. It's a.

Speaker 1: 14:38

TV station in Chicago as well, I'm not mistaken. I don't know why they were in, I think I was going to. It was one of. One of the videos was going viral on TikTok and I think Chicago and this local Chicago News Station had a segment they regularly did on like viral, viral videos and they just found me and did a thing on it, which is quite fun, I guess.

Speaker 2: 15:00

Yeah, I'd love for that. But the the radio too, one was good. I listened to it and they were fully involved in the in the moment. You could hear them describing it and how they felt and the emotions with it as well. So you're certainly capturing it there and what you said it resonates with me because I was having this thought earlier about.

Speaker 2: 15:16

You mentioned about if you put up content that is explaining I've got this synth, I did this earlier and I put up a post doing the exact thing you mentioned, which is, like you say, this is how I did it and that's going to appeal to a certain person, but it's not necessarily going to. I don't know, maybe it could set the world a lot, I don't know, but it's not going to appeal to a wider audience, because I think you're tapping into those who like that retro sound and also film score. You've got so much going on there, which I think is really important. One thing I was going to ask you there you mentioned about music and create you creating this content? Are you still? I know you put a song out or you did a collab with Pensacola Mist, but are you still planning on releasing music in the near future or is it sort of? I know you've put posts. I've seen you said that you can find my music on Spotify and whatnot, but is there, is there going to be any new sunglasses? Good stuff.

Speaker 1: 17:21

Yeah, I mean. So what? What happened the day I went? Because what happened was I was I had started to kind of Going viral on TikTok and then, and then I hadn't really been paying any much mind to Instagram because I had written off Instagram. I was like it's a neon, impossible to go viral on Instagram. I'm not nothing. If I do anything with this idea is going to blow up on TikTok, not Instagram. And so I stopped paying attention to I was posting those videos onto Instagram but not really paying any attention. And then, like one Saturday morning, I wake up and go holy shit, I've just like gone from. I've got 60,000 followers and I was like I swear, last night I had 30,000. And what I'd not been paying attention to is, if you don't keep refreshing the front of your profile, sometimes your follower account doesn't actually update. And I'd been slowly growing but just not noticing and I was like so I go friend.

Speaker 1: 18:15

I was like she was like well, how many places your video had. Someone famous shared it and I was like I was like, honey, shit, this video has had like 400,000 places. It's very sad, like a million places and I hadn't been paying attention to what was going on. And then it was almost like the second I noticed it. I started realizing. I was like, fuck, I think I'm going viral on Instagram and like in the space of a cup of coffee, I gained like 7000 followers on Instagram, like literally the time it took me to drink a coffee. And then I started getting all these DMs from like blue tick people going like so many people with a blue tick game, let's work. And I'm like, and I'm responding to people for him because I was just, I still was in my old headspace and I'm like, hey, cool, yeah, that's, yeah, I'm happy to chat.

Speaker 1: 19:04

And then I go and look at who they were and it'd be like multi platinum, three time Grammy winning producer for insert some of the most famous musicians working today in our, in our in the US R&B and rap and I had like a numbers of people in my, in my DMs, asking me to send them demos and and do stuff with them. And so all these videos that I was posting, I wasn't the music I was making, I wasn't. I was actually just really just demo dumping. I was just writing ideas. Like one of the videos that went the most viral called. That's caption is it's, it's the 1980, whatever, and there's a shoot out in a warehouse.

Speaker 2: 19:48

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 19:49

I wrote that in like about 45 minutes, an hour or something, posted it didn't even think about it, walked away and then the next day was like fuck, I think I've gone viral.

Speaker 1: 20:00

And so half these tracks aren't finished. They're literally not much longer than the video clip that you you watch, right, they're just these quick minute and a half ideas. And I was just, I was just machine gunning out music to try and grow my social channel and also because I was just having fun. And then and then, because I had all these producers reach out to me, I essentially took all of these tracks and put them all in a folder and unleashed them to a bunch of, like big name producers who'd all reached out to me saying have you got any beats, as they say. And so a number of those tracks well, not a number, a couple of those tracks in particular got picked up and are sitting right now in potential placements with, with, with really quite famous people. But but also over the last year I've learned that that shit can sound like it's going to happen and then it doesn't.

Speaker 1: 20:58

Yeah, and so but but the some of them have got to put in a bit of a car park where it's like it's it would be an exclusive if it went ahead. But we don't know if it's going to go ahead. So why was a bit nervous around doing was hastily releasing all this music because it was popular and then fucking some deal because I had said something would be an exclusive and then I've gone and dropped it as an independent release and so some some it's, it's a. It started all getting quite complicated, like I had to get a lawyer over a couple of things that were being kind of discussed, and so so I'm at this position where still there's quite a lot of stuff in limbo. It's a more exciting limbo to be in, but it's just so.

Speaker 1: 21:49

So, yes, the plan is at some point to take the tracks that I know I can do something with and put them together and finish them. So when people like where's the album is, like I am not sure which one of those ones I can do something with and be, I need to just finish them all and need to extend them out into pieces because they're no longer than the video clip themselves, and so that's the limbo I'm in but in the, in, the in, in between all that, yeah, I just I had all these detours where I've done things, jobs and composing, composing jobs for people. So I've just, I've just kind of been, yeah, I don't know, and I still hold on a day job. So I'm, like everyone, chill. I'm still doing this at fucking night mostly, so I'm operating in a window about seven hours. If I go to bed at 2am.

Speaker 2: 22:37

Yeah, fair play.

Speaker 1: 22:38

It's a lot to squeeze in man.

Speaker 2: 22:41

I think what you you mentioned there about having fun and I think a really good way to describe it is like what I mentioned earlier is like it's fun but it's well executed, and I think that is the key to it as well.

Speaker 1: 22:51

Well, I do know it fun. Yeah, exactly, yeah, exactly, that's my middle name.

Speaker 2: 22:55

So good, that's going to be the tagline for the episode. Yeah, I've also noticed as well. You get a lot of people ask you about what make your sunglasses as well. Do you think there's going to be at some point you're going to see these a raft of people just wearing your sunglasses and your watch as well? Your watch is quite, quite well asked about, isn't it?

Speaker 1: 23:18

As you know, these actually are mine. I know they aren't like no, yeah, I got so many like sunglasses companies sending me. Just got boxes of fucking sunglasses.

Speaker 2: 23:26

They hoped I was going to wear, yeah product placement.

Speaker 1: 23:30

But I bought, and watches as well. I got sent watches like lots of little, but I don't even know why people are obsessed with this watch, because I didn't buy it, thinking it wasn't even like a deliberately, knowingly particularly retro purchase. I just, I, just, I just I wanted to watch it, I like, I like that style of watch and I wanted to watch the strap wouldn't deteriorate on it and I found one that was all plastic and it turns out this is the same watch that Tom Cruise wears in the first Mission Impossible. It's just a casserole, illuminate from like 1996 or something. And then the sunglasses I bought them at a I always say thrift store online because most of my audience is American, but I bought them in like a some I kind of the charity store, junk store, but it was in Brighton, in the, in the south coast. And the arms, that the handles on the sides, they sort of fold over and I picked them up and I was like that's unusual. I think these are actually real. I think these are like retro, these are vintage.

Speaker 1: 24:26

I reckon these are eighties and I bought them for like five pounds, but they've got no serial number, no make on them, nothing on them that indicates anything, and I've had so many like sunglasses aficionados who want photos going like I'll try and figure out what the where these from. I'm like I'm terrified. I'm like, if I drop and break these fucking things and I've taken them to like gigs and stuff, I'm like this is my entire identity. Now, if I lose these, I can't. They're irreplaceable. No one can find any and, like everyone thinks they've almost found the same pair and they're not. No one can find one that's quite like them. But yeah, so stuck in my FAQs in the description, because I get asked it and still still get asked it every fucking day.

Speaker 1: 25:07

Yeah, I love that you put in there.

Speaker 2: 25:10

I was reading through it the other day where you put. You can find my music here I'm doing this you can listen to. These are the VSTs I'm using and I can see from that I can guess in your, your DMs, your fielding a lot of the same questions by the looks of things and the comments as well. Yeah, yeah, I mean this kind of segues on to my next question. I mean, those aren't negatives. It's great having that engagement and whatnot, but have there been any from this? You mentioned that you're doing this in your spare time as well, so obviously you're having to dedicate time to that with you. You got a day job also and then you've got these songs that are currently in a car park on a shelf that you're unsure what's going ahead and what's not. Have there been any sort of negatives? Can you highlight any particular negatives over the last few months as a result of having all this interest on you online? Or maybe there isn't any?

Speaker 1: 26:01

I've been very lucky in that. I mean I was talking to you off camera about some negatives. I'll try and keep it drama free, but one of the big negatives is right at the start, when I, when I first started doing it, there was somebody else who was, who had, who was doing the same idea and I was. I was getting a lot of accusations that I was copying them with the, with the PAV thing, and so there was a. There was a while where I was starting to get like bordering on abusive messages, being accused of being unoriginal, being being told I was ripping someone off. And then at the same time, I mentioned to you that, around the same time, this idea of first I catching fire on TikTok and I released the song for the video that was going going gangbusters and, for whatever reason, the algorithm on TikTok which I think is connected to the release of the song and identifying my song as violating my own copyright that's a theory I get muted and my reach got killed. And in March I think it was in like February and March I got so pissed off with that whole situation that I was. I was super close to just to just throwing in the towel with music entirely. I was like I got, I let it get to me quite a bit and I got quite depressed about the situation and I found, I found myself just gonna fuck it, I can't be bothered. I can't be bothered with this shit. Why am I doing this? I thought I had, I thought that was gonna be my moment to like blow up. And it was there and then it was taken away from me and I got really, I got really pissed off and I and I don't know why, a part of me was like I'm gonna keep going for a while. And it was like in my sort of final kind of death knell that suddenly I like blew up in this like crazy way where I was like Like a literature. I don't think people realize how close I was just going.

Speaker 1: 28:00

I've been doing this for like 10 years, messing about making a music, and it's taking me. I've been on it. I've been on Instagram for seven years. It took me seven years to amass 10,000 people followers and then one year to amass 300 and 32 more thousand more of them. It was men, it was mental, I was. I was like.

Speaker 1: 28:25

I was like If I had been kept going at the rate I was going on Instagram, I was gaining like 30 followers a month. I was like. I was like this is the only way, this, this you've got, the only strategy you can if you think you're gonna grow, if you want to grow to like 300,000 followers. You don't realize how many it is Until you start trying to do it for real and then going at 30 a month. It would take me like 900 years For the fuck it was to gain it. So the only way you're doing this is by going viral. This is the only way you're gonna do. It is to go massively viral or to or to become hugely famous somehow in. So it's only one what. There's only two ways to do it. Um, so, yeah, I don't. I don't know what I'm, I don't know where I'm going with that, but yeah, that was a negative way I came.

Speaker 1: 29:14

I came pretty close and then I suppose the mother negatives have been that I've had a lot of people. I got quite a few people illegally started sampling my music. People just started thinking they would that it was up for grabs. I had to get a lawyer to To do a cease and desist on something. I had. Other videos that were going viral on tiktok got also got muted for inexplicable reasons and, but luckily because through a lawyer, he hooked me up with someone at tiktok and it took about 11 emails Between about 11 different people to get them to unmute it. But there's no way you're getting a video on muted on tiktok if you don't have some Contact there, because the algorithm said, when it says no, it just it's done, you're, you're fucked. So, yeah, those were, those were the negatives of it, but it's largely our way by positives.

Speaker 1: 30:32

But for a long, for a while, it when I was getting those negative comments from people accusing me of ripping someone off, it got, it took the fun out of it. I would be like, even if a video was going viral, I'd be going through the comments, people going, you're amazing, this is great, am I going? Yeah, yeah, I'm just waiting for the one comment where someone's gonna fucking oh, there it is. There's the person saying that I'm the fucking unoriginal boss. I said, and it would just, it would make I just focus on that one comment and feel shit, going oh, this is someone you know, this is, this is so it's feels so unjust, I'm not I, this is my idea and and not knowing what to do and not wanting to become a drama queen and start talking about it publicly. But also I felt like my reputation was being damaged, but by that as well. So that was, that was the biggest negative of the whole thing.

Speaker 2: 31:20

It's tricky, that isn't it? And what you mentioned there about how, no matter how many positive comments you can have, it's always that negative one that really Strikes the core. I find in like you can have 10, 20, probably a lot more with these videos, but then you have that one negative comment. It's that one that really grinds and it really and it's hard to to dust it off. Yeah, so I can imagine that's tricky and that's not.

Speaker 1: 31:45

I'm glad you carried on, thank you. I mean I'm not bad. I'm not bad at actually taking it on the chin, I'm Unperfitting fine with someone going You're like someone said it the other day, all your music sounds the fucking same. Or your, all your tracks sound the same. And I and I just objectively, was like that's their opinion and they're entitled to it, and then maybe a degree of truth to what they're saying and someone else might say your stuff's cheesy or that's, you know, rubbish, whatever, and I'm fine with that. But it's when someone's saying something that I'm like no, that this is actually not true and this is not fair, because you're telling you're saying I'm doing something that I'm not and this isn't an opinion. This is like a factual accusation that you're making and that that was what was grinding my fucking gears.

Speaker 2: 32:29

Because, like you said, it's even. You know it's not true and the majority of people probably know it's not true, but it's still there and it's still. People are going to read it, aren't they? And it's still. It's still defamation in a way. You know when and it's. Yeah, I can imagine that's incredibly frustrating.

Speaker 1: 32:44

No one's gonna say then. Then I remember I've seen other people going viral with you know nothing to do with music. You know you see some sketch and then you'll see another person doing exactly the same sketch and you're like Wait, who is the original? There's someone, someone, someone, someone's in bed. So there's this whole free-for-all on social media with just nicking people's ideas and and there's this whole, all this whole infrastructure that used to exist around intellectual property and protecting. Like if you were a stand-up comedian, you did a routine and then some other stand-up comedian came on stage and did exactly the same routine. That stand-up comedian would be, would be dragged through the mud for plagiarizing that routine. And yet the second it's all on social media. It's just the fucking Wild West of everyone stealing everyone's ideas. So yeah, there's a part of me is going.

Speaker 1: 33:27

Well, you know you playing, you play the game. The fact that people are ripping you off indicates something that it's a good idea. Maybe I don't know.

Speaker 2: 33:36

I was gonna say that, yeah, it's like, imitation is the is the form of flattery, isn't, at the end of the day? So if people are doing, they obviously See it as having some sort of substance. You know, one thing I did want to mention and I know this happened on the weekend was you were chatting to a fellow Devonian of mine on your instagram live of Matt Bellamy he's he doesn't live down here anymore, admittedly. Well, you might do, but I don't think he lives in California now.

Speaker 2: 34:00

Well, there we go, so he's not hanging out. I think it's either tin moth or painton For the audience listener. I don't think he's there anymore. But yeah, how did that go Well? How would it your compensate?

Speaker 1: 34:09

I saw you a bit star strike in your instagram story almost, and so much it wasn't so much star truck struck it was. I shared that only because I think I ended that video by saying that's not like the most mental conversation I'd had this year and it's, it's definitely not, but it was. It was maybe quite unique in that you got to see my real-time reaction to this shit, because usually this stuff happens in DMs. Like I've had people DM and I'm going, oh my god, fucking, this sounds like what the hell? Who the? Who the hell is this person? Um, and he's probably like the most famous person in terms of like I immediately knew who they were, whereas everyone else who's been Hitting me up has been like someone where I'm like who's this person? And then I'm like Fucking hell, how come I haven't heard this person is huge producer or whatever? Um, and I knew he'd started following me like a few months ago and the um. And then I suddenly saw him and actually my hesitation in the clip is I was like Wait, I think that's the lead singer of muse, but I can't remember if it is and I don't want to embarrass, make him may say something wrong and get embarrassing, embarrass myself, when actually it's not him.

Speaker 1: 35:16

And then he what you can't see on that clip is him saying If you're ever, if you ever want to work together, let's do it. So that's me like react. That's what's coming up on the screen as I'm reacting to it. But you know, when you screen cap, I, I didn't screen cap the comment, but all the people in the comments are like blowing up because there's like about there's about like 200 people in there when this is happening.

Speaker 1: 35:38

And then because first we says, where are you based? I'm like, and then I, and then he doesn't say anything and I'm like, what do I do now? And I'd like I could just carry on with the life. And then, whilst I'm answering a question about vsts, it just pops up and says if you ever want to work together, and I'm like, yes, and then we, we, we picked up in a conversation afterwards in dms about, about doing something potentially. So we shall see. But, like I say, the, I've learned that these things you think something's going to happen and things don't always happen. Say, trying not to get excited is the other discipline that I've. Lowering your expectations all the time, because people say things and there's a big distance between a conversation starter and a thing getting over the finish line, especially at that level.

Speaker 2: 36:23

I can imagine. Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah, it's a lot of ideas, a lot of great ideas at the time and that maybe don't come through with fruition, but that's still pretty cool, though. Man and Matt Bellamy just just appeared like, yeah, let's work together on something that would be. I'm waiting for that picture of you on with Matt Bellamy casually hanging out in the in california. That that would be. That would be impressive.

Speaker 1: 36:47

The wildest conversation I've had this year was with a producer who reached out to me who I hadn't Didn't know, who they well, so another, a producer, a Grammy winning producer, for people like Rihanna and the kid lorori Reached out to me and then introduced me to another producer who happens to be in london at the time, and I went and met this guy, who's american, in a. He was a randomist thing. I met him in like a hotel bar about midnight and in soho, and the conversation that ensued. He is a producer for a very famous singer and I ended up then going to los angeles because I was.

Speaker 1: 37:27

I happened to be Considering going to LA this year this year as I was out there in june to see to go and see my good friend ollie ride, who sang on the song I made called strange love we made song and so I was going to see ollie at the troubadour and then I kind of twinned it up with going out and meeting people and I went, met back up with this guy and I went to his studios in in LA and it was just wild, just like just gold discs like everywhere there's so many gold discs you couldn't you couldn't like move for them and and the conversations that I had with with with him about Not potentially working on stuff was was like it was like blood, it was like heart rate Doubling conversations, it was.

Speaker 1: 38:18

So I remember the first, first time I got put into a whatsapp group with this guy before I met him, where this other producer said I'm gonna put you in a whatsapp with him now. It was like about 11 30 at night, because you know we're eight hours ahead of LA, and I was like nearly ready to go to bed and I'm like going fucking out. The I'm about to be in this. This whatsapp group with this guy, like how, what I say and how I conduct myself will is in the next 30 seconds is gonna be incredibly important. So, yeah, I've had some mad, mad conversations with people.

Speaker 2: 38:51

How do you I mean, there's that's, that's quite a high pressure environment, isn't it? At the end of the day, like you said, your heart rates going? How do you, sort of like, keep your cool in those situations? I like, like you say, I mean you've got that first, you're gonna make that first impression and in the music industry, that's everything, isn't it? I mean, you you've got those 30 seconds, as you say, how would you make sure you keep me on, me, put the sunglasses on. That would help.

Speaker 2: 39:14

But I mean, how do you keep your cool in those situations and remain grounded, you know, and not fall under the pressure?

Speaker 1: 39:21

I mean, a lot of it's happening online and I think one of the the For like lucky bits of armor that I'm wearing is the armor of complete naivety, which is when you, when you, you hear about people who are really successful because they just walk through life not realizing that they're just kind of naively doing stuff I'm done, I don't think I'm not naive in a sense of I think I'm great or I think I'm amazing or anything, or I have a particularly massively can do attitude on very self-critical. But the people who are reaching out to me, I genuinely didn't didn't know who they were, because I don't move in hip-hop and rap and R&B circles. I don't spend a lot. So I had people who were like super high profile, who's like I'm working with so and so I've got so and so in the studio and I'm like cool, having no idea who they are going. And then looking my girl, better, look up this person.

Speaker 1: 40:11

I'm like holy shit, this person's got 400 million followers on Spotify. I've never heard of this person. They the hell is this dude. He the hell is that person. Like I started what. I'm working with a producer right now who I am like okay, he's got quite a high following on Instagram. But lots of people who who have got high followings on Instagram and aren't necessarily anything. And I'm Then I go and look up his Wikipedia. I'm like bloody hell, this guy's quite accomplished.

Speaker 1: 40:34

And I'm with having a drink with a mate who's a in the business and I'm like, oh, I'm working with this guy called and he's like holy shit. I'm like have you heard of him? He's like yeah, he's huge. And I'm like I've never heard of him. So I think the fact that I don't seem to be impressed Maybe gives off this air of being called and it's like it's not. I'm not impressed. This is I literally haven't heard of these people is getting embarrassing as well. I'm talking, I was talking to someone from a really large record label. He's like I'm working with so and so Do you look? And I'm like, oh right, he's like do you like them? And I'm like I haven't. I'm sorry I haven't actually heard of them. I know I'm sounds like. I feel like I should have heard. So it's like this cringy like Britt.

Speaker 2: 41:17

Yeah, yeah, who's this guy? So he's like I'm doing something with Rihanna.

Speaker 1: 41:21

You've heard of Rihanna and I'm like I have heard of her. Yeah she's doing stuff with like underwear now. Okay, cool.

Speaker 2: 41:37

I can see what you mean there. Like you kind of like because you don't know who these artists are. You're not, you know, I Don't want to use this term, start right, but you're not like, yeah, you don't feel the pressure because you don't know who they are, which I think, like you say, works in your benefit at the moment, because then you can do that time and find out who they are After back of that.

Speaker 1: 41:54

I mean like if like hands in the DM me, I would lose my fucking shit. Yeah, yeah, I'm screaming, screaming and crying and doing knee slides. This is just because I haven't heard of this people. I'll be like I'm about to be on the phone to Hans Zimmer.

Speaker 2: 42:14

Yeah, try not to break the sunglasses when you do the knee. To be fair. I mean, if Hans Zimmer contacted you, you did a knee slide and you break the glasses, it's probably worth it.

Speaker 1: 42:21

To be fair, I would say I'll blow up my house to me, hans Zimmer.

Speaker 2: 42:27

Amazing. So we're coming towards the end. Now we're almost approaching sort of 40 minutes, 45 minutes. I know it go. These episodes go fast these days. This is an interesting one. If you could go back 12 months and give yourself a piece of advice, what would it be?

Speaker 1: 42:42

I think definitely would be. I'm a sort of ready for it, but I get a definite and it's funny because I gave this advice to other people which is is is if you are really Trying to like blow yourself up on social media and you're seriously trying to implement a strategy, to do it as a producer Plan, plan for success and be ready to be ready to move incredibly quickly, because the window of opportunity if you are lucky enough that lightning strikes, something happens, the attention will be on you very, very shortly and then everyone will get bored and move on. And so in that window of attention, you better have something ready for people. When they say send me the demos, give me this, what are you working on? Are you available? Can you do that? They're only gonna ask you that once or twice. And then if you don't have that ready and I've had, I've had like messages where, like a producer's been like hey man, I'm in the studio with Said famous person right now, have you got any beats for me? And if you haven't got them ready, they'll be like oh yeah, they're gone now and it could be like a window of like two hours or something that that could happen in. So it's.

Speaker 1: 43:58

It's like the thing that I learned throughout this year was I literally started a Trello board To manage my contacts and conversations because I started losing track of who I'd sent what to and what I was doing. I started Like a little black book which is essentially a spreadsheet of all the Contacts who's getting phone numbers and email addresses for people. I was like managing your contacts and managing those conversations started to become important, and so there is that like business side of it and understanding the legal side of it as well. So that that would be my advice which feels and it thing is, if you rewind a rewinding back, it feels like something you like you go. I can't be asked to prepare for that because this will never happen to me.

Speaker 1: 44:47

It's like it's like saying it's like feels like Planning for winning the lottery, like be ready in case you win a hundred million dollars or something like you were like worse, never gonna happen. So it feels like the easiest thing to not think about and until it happens to you. And then you then your court, your court of Guard, and you're having to think on the fly, as it's happening and, like I say, things could happen like there's like 10 messages in your inbox and they're all things. You're like shit. What do I say? What do I do? Do I need a lawyer? Do I need a manager doing anything? What do I say back to this person? I don't have a demo ready, oh god, what do I do? So, if you're not ready for it, you could meet, you could miss it and you, you might never get that opportunity again. So that's that, I guess, is the advice I give.

Speaker 2: 45:29

But good stuff. I think it's a classic case if you've got a strike while the irons hot. You know, like you say that you got to be ready to, ready to go, and it's interesting you mentioned like how, if you were to 12 months ago, if I asked you that question, it would be interesting. I wish I had done that To see to see what the the answer would have been. But how do you deal with that then? Do you have this I know we're putting the end here, but you mentioned that about being able to send a beat, a track, an instrumental across. Do you have a library of songs ready and also shout out to a fellow Trello user as well? I love Trello. Do you have a library of songs ready to go for in this instance? Are you constant? Are you in the background just creating this music now? So you've got it ready to go, in case you get that cool.

Speaker 1: 46:13

Yeah and and in the hit in the rap and and R&B and hip-hop world, the lot of the producers reaching out are wanting it to flip it to, to reach to, they don't want their day, wanting to take it and then further flip it and add their own drums. So they're all about drums. So what you need ready is like versions without drums on it, and then you they're not all begging for stems, they actually are happy to just take like a wav with no drums. It's a super wild west. So I've just got a dropbox that's got like 50 tracks in it without the drums on it and some variations without the basses on it as well.

Speaker 1: 46:53

The challenge I discovered was if you let too many people have access to it at the same time, you could find two different producers zoned in on the same beat, and that happened to me and one of them had got potentially a placement with someone quite famous one, and we got potentially a placement with someone not quite as famous but and it got awkward and suddenly was in court in the middle of this with my lawyer going what do we do? We got to pause that one because this one might happen, but we'll lose this deal if this one turns out to be a nothing burger, which it feels like it might, but if it does happen it could be like a fucking huge thing. So, like I say, we've had all these high stakes conversations and at the end of the year I don't have anything particularly need to show for it other than a lot of wild conversations, although I did work on a movie this year as well.

Speaker 2: 47:40

Very, brief wow yeah that's cool. Is it out or is it coming out?

Speaker 1: 47:44

I don't even know if my cues will make it into it was for literally a Hollywood movie, but I did. I did. I didn't have hands in my deems, but I had somebody who was like as almost as a there's almost as prolific as and nice, and I ended up working on a movie that's of quite a famous intellectual property, of very associated with the 80s. But whether I don't, it's completely spooky as to whether it'll actually make it into the movie or not. And yeah, so I've had, I've had some. I had a crash course in scoring movies. I was literally like the mid, working to the midi from a famous composer who and it was very intense two weeks of following instructions.

Speaker 1: 48:26

So there is no. Again. The going viral thing is, I'd say, there's you, as always. You always have this nice idea that you can start in the shallow end and slowly acclimatize into the deep end. But sometimes you're like there's no, there is no shallow end. Your options are say no or say yes, and yes takes you straight into something you you don't know how to do, or you're is terrifying, and the only and the option is or don't, and that that's.

Speaker 2: 48:59

That's quite intimidating yeah, I could imagine, man and all the while you've got you're holding down this full-time job and you're also you're still putting out content on social media, finding the time to do that. So it's, it's highly impressive it's pretty stressful.

Speaker 1: 49:15

It's bizarre going back to work and just being in a meeting and thinking, you know like, especially the Monday meeting where people are, how was your weekend? And you're like. I just don't say like yeah, it was great, he has cool. Yeah, you're like, because it sounds like bizarre. It would sound bizarre if I told people what I'd been up to like 24 hours ago or what I was working on to do.

Speaker 2: 49:35

Yeah, but um yeah, it's why they have any idea have you, have you they do your music, or what you're doing with them people have discovered.

Speaker 1: 49:44

It got to the point where people were actually were seeing me on TikTok and coming up to me going oh my god, so many videos or say coming up to me. Since the pandemic I've been working from home. So she home working has given me much more time because I don't have the hour and a half London nightmare before I'm back home. But but this is the closest I've ever got to going. This is might be the moment that I might be able to quit the day job. I mean, I'm less cautious.

Speaker 1: 50:15

People might have done it, might have quit in the situation I'm in, but I'm I just, I'm just a little bit. I don't want to kind of count my chickens before they're hatched away with the phrases. So I'm being. I mean, maybe there is no perfect moment to take the risk, but I feel like there's been opportunity on the table. I'm like if that happened and that happened, then I definitely am quitting the day job and I definitely am going full time. But until that happens and that happens, I don't feel confident quite enough to risk this. And then in six months time, when all the attention's died down and the DM stopped coming in and none of that shit happened and now you're just left going. Fuck, what do I do? Yeah?

Speaker 2: 50:57

I'm just sad. Yeah, I totally get you with that. What would be interesting is if we get back in contact in 12 months time and have another chat and see. See where you're at if you're not too busy doing xyz.

Speaker 1: 51:11

It'll be like the trilogy, then we let the fail trilogy be like one year one. One year ago you were a nobody, and then this year like, oh my god, you're blowing up at the year later you'll be like, yeah, I'm back in the day yeah, nothing happened, there's all shit which I'm fully kind of expecting to happen.

Speaker 1: 51:26

I literally don't have. Like, people keep telling me, oh, it's gonna happen for you and I, like I said I'm with these really high profile conversations but yet nothing's quite landed enough to me to go. That's it, I'm gonna, I'm on easy street for the rest of my life. So I never um, I don't take anything for granted, and certainly not the attention I keep waiting for the day I post a video and it gets zero likes every time I press go. I'm like is this the one where everyone's gonna fall out of love with me and hate me and go get bored? Or just as the algorithm is going to decide you, it's, your time is over now, dude. You're in the, the doghouse and everyone's going to ignore you for the rest of forever. So I don't, I don't know, I don't.

Speaker 1: 52:09

I just uh be an interesting story arc, wouldn't it, if hopefully, like it, doesn't happen, but I love it to be like in a year's time I'll be like, yes, I'm a mega famous fucking this, and that I'm mega successful, although I don't actually strive for your um.

Speaker 2: 52:22

I was gonna say I have to go through your management, in that it gets to that point where I'm having to reach out to management to like book time, you know, and do that for the record, I have no zero ambition to be well known or famous.

Speaker 1: 52:34

I've always seen social media as a means to an end for doing actually what. What has started happening, which is to get the attention of produce bigger people than me and to get jobs in film and in production, and I'd love to just be the ghost and part of a team of people making music for larger scale projects and still walk down the street and no one know who I am. So I have no like. The dream would be in a year's time to say I don't have to do work anymore and I'm making a ton of money as a producer. But you know, unfortunately some people make it seem very easy. I don't know how everyone's doing it was making so much money we've come to the end now.

Speaker 2: 53:16

It's been. It's been great, catching up and really interesting. I love these stories as well and, as I say, it'd be great to do it again in 12 months and, fingers crossed, it'll be still that that rise and you'll have be able to regale us with these various projects that have now been released and they're mentioned, and some of these names as well. Be able to mention these names so.

Speaker 1: 53:36

I'd love to. I'd love to. I feel like I'll be like. The story will be like yeah, it didn't happen in the end, but I could tell you now it was I nearly made. I think it would just be a load of like I nearly made a story. I made a track with someone, but I was going to say one of these days I'll come on inside the mix podcast and actually talk about mixing or talk about actual productions.

Speaker 2: 53:55

So this is the second time I've failed to talk about, talk about music yeah, yeah, to be fair, I mean this one I had set up to talk about, like what happened in the 12 months. But we will get that sorted out where we can stream you creating maybe I'll give you like a situation and then you score it, or something like that, or maybe I'll give you a selection of situations just in case it doesn't suit, making it easier, and I think that'd be quite cool actually yeah, I mean, I do that in my lives.

Speaker 1: 54:27

People will just be like, what about this? And I'm like, all right, I'll give it a go and it ends up being something. But yeah, I mean this is gonna say it'll be the shortest podcast ever. For my advice as a producer, it's like I use all presets. I don't really know how to mix. I only just got speakers like three weeks ago for the first time ever and yeah, just I don't know what I'm doing yeah, I think we'd come at it from like a product.

Speaker 2: 54:53

I'll be like, yeah, we'll just score something rather than mix it. Yeah, we're loosely loosely, to be fair. The podcasters range, you know, we have these conversations that way out is A, and then sometimes it's mixing master and sometimes production. So it's all good there. But I know for a fact there's gonna be a lot of listeners eager to listen to this one, so I'm excited to drop this one. But Sunglasses Kid, if our audience hasn't heard of you and they don't know where to find you, where? I mean? We've mentioned TikTok and Instagram already, but what handles should they be going for? Or?

Speaker 1: 55:24

looking for TikTok and Instagram. Same handle is at Sunglasses Kid music. It's just Sunglasses Kid on Spotify. And just, I feel like I've said this sentence 12,000 times this year about where I, where you can find my music. Because suddenly a whole load of new people who don't know who I am, who seem incapable of just googling my name. But yeah, just Google Sunglasses Kid music. I have discovered that if you're, if you've never googled my name before, you will get met with lots of children's sunglasses. But if you type Sunglasses Kid music, sunglasses Kid bandcamp, sunglasses Kid, whatever you'll, you'll find me. I'm on, I want everything. But yeah, like I said, all the music in the last year on my Instagram it's not be is yet to be released, it's all sitting in the in the car park and hopefully in 2024, at some point, I will try and unleash a full instrumental album of the tracks that people are asking for.

Speaker 2: 56:17

That'd be amazing. Look forward to that. Cool. I will call it there because I'm going to allow you to enjoy the rest of your evening, because you too, I imagine. It is the working week as well, isn't it? So get up in there, get up and go to work. But there we go. I will catch up with you soon and I'll keep tabs on what you're doing, and then we'll do it all again in 12 months. I'll speak to you soon, buddy.